WaLLeye_Killer
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few days in
hunted this evening had a doe and here fawn come in..the fawn was still nursing so didnt know if i should take the doe so passes.. would the fawn survive if i took the doe?
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S-10
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RE: few days in
2010/10/08 05:35:29
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It probably would survive unless it is still heavily spotted as after about 5 months of age they have the physical capabilities to make it on their own. They will nurse or at least try to long after that. What they won't have is all the necessary lifes lessons which will make it more difficult for a fawn on it's own than one still with the doe.
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270wbmag
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RE: few days in
2010/10/08 06:56:41
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why in the world would you even consider shooting a mother doe with a small nursing fawn, don't any of you doe killers have any compansion for female animals or their young????...can't believe you even posted this..the worst i have ever seen was a few years ago and big doe was running with an arrow stuck high in her back and blood running down her sides, and two little ones following her to watch her die and never be found..it ran for hundreds of yards in open bottom...that tore me up..and you guys think that doe is a trophy "ironhed"...you guys should be ashamed ...
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dpms
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RE: few days in
2010/10/08 07:44:46
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ORIGINAL: WaLLeye_Killer
would the fawn survive if i took the doe?
Yep, that fawn will be just fine. If you want to harvest a doe, let that arrow fly.
My rifle is a black rifle
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dpms
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RE: few days in
2010/10/08 07:48:44
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ORIGINAL: 270wbmag
why in the world would you even consider shooting a mother doe with a small nursing fawn, don't any of you doe killers have any compansion for female animals or their young
you guys should be ashamed ...
No shame here. Personally, you are doing more harm to our sport than all of the fellows that shoot does. 
My rifle is a black rifle
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270wbmag
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RE: few days in
2010/10/08 08:29:11
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do you have a heart???????? dp////>>>>>??????? you have no respect for animals and young ones..you are an out and out killer and no sportsmanship in your body..glad everyhunter is not like you..wouldn't even call you a hunter..killer more like it..join the marines you like to kill so much..that little fawn would not be adopted by other family groups, they run them off, seen it happen numerous times..that would be coyote bait..
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dpms
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RE: few days in
2010/10/08 09:41:44
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ORIGINAL: 270wbmag
do you have a heart???????? dp////>>>>>??????? you have no respect for animals and young ones..you are an out and out killer and no sportsmanship in your body..glad everyhunter is not like you.
Shows how little you know about me and the little understanding you have about the threats to our sport. I have broad shoulders. Don't matter much to to me how you feel about me. I am more concerned about the big picture.
My rifle is a black rifle
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Esox_Hunter
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RE: few days in
2010/10/08 09:50:29
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Quite a number of years ago I shot a doe on the first day of archery. I thought the doe was solo, but after the shot I noticed she had 2 little ones in tow that had stayed in the brush during the shot. I watched the doe topple from my stand and saw that the little ones stayed tight to the area where mom expired. After about 30 minutes I got down to take care of her. The 2 fawns stayed about 75 yards from me while I gutted my doe and continued to bleat for nearly 15 minutes while I was there.
I knew the fawns would be fine, but boy did I feel terrible when they watched me gut mom. Never again will I shoot a doe that has fawns in tow.
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dpms
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RE: few days in
2010/10/08 10:20:24
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Taking the life of an animal should never be without pause and reflection, IMO. That is part of what ensures that we be as humane and ethical as possible.
My rifle is a black rifle
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S-10
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RE: few days in
2010/10/08 10:36:25
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DPMS--what's the big picture you are concerned about?
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dpms
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RE: few days in
2010/10/08 11:24:02
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ORIGINAL: S-10
DPMS--what's the big picture you are concerned about?
Hunters personally attacking each other because of how they legally hunt, where they legally hunt or what they legally hunt. Disagreement is fine and contructive but we must be careful in how we do it. HSUS, PETA and others have shifted their strategies as of late to take advantage of devisions that exist among hunters. Essentially using ourselves against each other. I am pretty sure you are aware of that but many are not. Language that exists in this thread is a glarring example of the openings that exist for people to sneak into.
post edited by dpms - 2010/10/08 11:31:27
My rifle is a black rifle
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S-10
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RE: few days in
2010/10/08 12:03:25
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Before you go after 270 for his views how do you see the PGC's statements concerning those folks who disagree with what the Audubon proposed and pushed and the PGC implemented. For example- calling them a small vocial minority of radicals and exteminists or one of Alts personal statements----------------------Alt, the former Pennsylvania Game Commission deer management section supervisor, has the opposite opinion. "That attitude poses a bigger threat to the future of hunting than antihunters do," he says. "Right now in Pennsylvania, some hunters are the sport's worst enemy." --------------The PGC created the biggest divide among the hunters and the guy they hired to do it fled to Calif to be with his anti hunting friends. (the buck/doe, crossgun/recurve, inline/muzzleloader)disagreements are small potatoes by comparison. Kind of like which is best 270 or 30/06.
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dpms
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RE: few days in
2010/10/08 12:15:23
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As I said, I have no problems with discussions and disagreements on issues. That only ensures the best outcome. There are many that disagree with the PGC's policies as of late. It has been a devisive issue. We as hunters, can discuss these issues in productive ways without attacking each other, how we hunt or what we hunt. "some hunters are the sport's worst enemy" is a fair statement. Calling another hunter a "killer" without "respect" for what is harvested and lacking "sportsmanship" because a antlerless deer was harvested is harming our sport.
post edited by dpms - 2010/10/08 12:24:39
My rifle is a black rifle
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S-10
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RE: few days in
2010/10/08 13:55:03
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Not a fair statement the way Alt used it. here is some of the article.
Gary Alt, wildlife biologist, and Greg Levengood, financial adviser, are Pennsylvania deer hunters with a lot in common. They have spent most of their 50-odd years pursuing whitetails in the same storied woods that their fathers and grandfathers hunted before them, and that their children will hunt in after they are gone. They count times spent deer hunting among the most meaningful of their lives.
And each thinks the other is a serious threat to that tradition.
"What Gary's plan has done here in Pennsylvania is guaranteed to kill hunting," says Levengood. "We're fed up with it."
Alt, the former Pennsylvania Game Commission deer management section supervisor, has the opposite opinion. "That attitude poses a bigger threat to the future of hunting than antihunters do," he says. "Right now in Pennsylvania, some hunters are the sport's worst enemy."
Levengood and Alt represent the opposing sides in a civil war that has broken out among Pennsylvania's million-plus deer hunters. And in a state where deer hunting ranks with God and family (no one will say in what order), the battle has spilled over into the mainstream media
Now that's an attack that the antis can exploit. Off to set a stand, later
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WaLLeye_Killer
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RE: few days in
2010/10/08 14:01:21
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i have a heart last i knew i was just asking a question.
post edited by WaLLeye_Killer - 2010/10/08 14:10:13
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Bull Lifter
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RE: few days in
2010/10/08 18:23:21
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can i just say, wow? i think thats allowed.
good luck shooting a maiden doe..i've seen maybe one or next to none. so you'd shoot a doe without a fawn? but maybe it had fawns and something happened to them earlier in life? so techincally that doe HAD fawns...most does have a fawn, unless it was last years fawn that did not get bred, so now it looks like an adult doe to that "didnt have fawns" but fact is it should get bred and have fawns.
let's face it, doe's get harvested still, i can't see a problem in that unless the area is hurting for a deer population.
Most cases the fawns will live, unless i'd say they are really young still and cant figure how to survive ORrrrrrrrrrrrr you hear coyotes off in the distance that night creeping in to attack them immediately!!!!! lol.....i've shot does with fawns standing there as well, i felt alittle "off" ,but its not going to really stop me from doing it again so to speak of.
in gun season when you see a herd of 10 "does" i bet not all of the adults and fawns are next of kin so they do "adopt" so to speak.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: few days in
2010/10/08 21:05:50
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A fawn that has lost it's spots will do just fine on it's own .. it will find a family to become a part of... they do not need to be adopted... Most adult does travel in groups anyhow and usually many in that group are "related".. rarely in the wild is there a single doe living and spending time all by itself with just new fawns... I too have seen does chasing off smaller deer but they usually come back if they are not males...., it's more like a game or possibly a learning situation... I agree calling hunters killers is not good for the sport, but have come to expect as much from some that post here........ I totally avoid shooting small antlerless deer for two reasons... not much meat and may be a button buck.. but to shoot a mature doe with fawns... she's down.... I too have a moment of feeling sad, but I know the fawns will be fine .. but I know I can not wait to see a single doe running somewhere without any fawns.. my freezer may never get full that way... 
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Dr. Trout
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RE: few days in
2010/10/08 21:17:46
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We can not deny there is some division amongst some of today's hunters... but in my opinion it is two-fold.. those that are just anti- PGC no matter what and those that are anti-deer plan... the other divisions.. AR,Hr, crossbows, compounds, in-lines, Sunday hunting, baiting, youth hunting, etc usually divides in two sides... those that the new idea will make happy and those that are not happy no matter what the PGC does.. and we obvious have some of those here... some want things to never change... they live in the past and want nothing to do with CHANGE !!! It has always been that way... it's based more on one's opinion of the PGC rather than what they decide to do to allow for more hunting opportunities for Pa sportsman...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/10/08 21:19:34
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Noplacelikehome
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RE: few days in
2010/10/08 21:35:34
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VERY very well said Dr. Trout. Why can't some people move forward. Living in the past does NO ONE any good.
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RSB
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RE: few days in
2010/10/08 21:51:51
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ORIGINAL: 270wbmag
do you have a heart???????? dp////>>>>>??????? you have no respect for animals and young ones..you are an out and out killer and no sportsmanship in your body..glad everyhunter is not like you..wouldn't even call you a hunter..killer more like it..join the marines you like to kill so much..that little fawn would not be adopted by other family groups, they run them off, seen it happen numerous times..that would be coyote bait..
Hunters applying human emotions to the act of hunting and killing a game animal are doing exactly the same thing anti-hunters are doing. First of all wildlife are but a part of nature and as such they both live and die as part of nature. It doesn’t make any difference whether it is a coyote, bear, bobcat, car, train, lightning, accident or a hunters bullet that claims it's life, all are better then starvation or other wise becoming a case of winter mortality. Hunting is a management tool that is specifically designed and used to help protect and keep the species being hunted in a healthy condition. To do that, and keep the species and populations healthy, some individual animals have to be removed from the population. There is simply no room for emotionalism in the act of hunting beyond the feeling of appreciation that the animal will not be wasted and gave itself so that others of the species can continue to be strong and healthy. That does not mean that we shouldn’t feel a moment of sorrow though that we ended a life of what was once a beautiful part of nature. I, as a hunter, kill some of those animals so that others can live, the same as any other predator would. And, I most certainly believe that those criticizing other hunters for harvesting a doe, or even a fawn of the year, are doing more harm to the future of hunting and hunter recruitment than the anti-hunters ever have. R.S. Bodenhorn
post edited by RSB - 2010/10/08 21:55:20
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Dr. Trout
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RE: few days in
2010/10/08 22:01:05
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Thanks,,, Do not want this to get too far off topic but there is one part of CHANGE that I do not understand AT ALL... and think is at the bottom of alot of today's trouble and ill-will... why in the past decade or so do we just give out rewards to those that do not work to get them.. ... kids that should be held back in school are getting allowed to move forward.. don't want the teacher or school to look bad .. to be on a little league team I had to practice and work hard... now everyone gets on the team.. and worst they all get to play.. no need to work on improving.. you'll get to play and get to bat no matter what.. ... everyone gets a trophy... ???? .. it's not about winning or losing... really ??.. how are those folks going to make it in a working world... ...I'm told some sports do not even keep score.... any wonder why we are raising a generation or so of spoiled, lazy, non-motivated youngsters... everyone gets to play ... everyone gets a trophy.. leads to === I want the PGC to give me deer to shoot without the patience or work involved in being SUCCESSFUL !!!! just give it to me or I'll quit .... rant over 
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RSB
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RE: few days in
2010/10/08 22:08:13
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Boy do I agree with your comments. Our society, and along with it our Country, is going down the tubes because no one has the guts to demand accountability or responsibility in today’s society. But, boy are we off topic. R.S. Bodenhorn
post edited by RSB - 2010/10/08 22:09:29
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Dr. Trout
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RE: few days in
2010/10/08 22:10:45
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S-10
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RE: few days in
2010/10/08 22:14:47
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Noplace Quote- Living in the past does NO ONE any good. To quote George Santayana, "Those who fail to remember the mistakes of the past are condemmed to repeat them". I don't live in the past but neither am I about to forget the past lies and misleading statements we were fed to sell AR/HR and I am damm sure going to question everything I hear from that organization from here on out. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Doc- your a poor one to be preaching about working for a deer. How did your pet Susie Q taste?
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Dr. Trout
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RE: few days in
2010/10/08 23:05:14
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tasted good.... same as the ones tasted that I used to walk miles to get...
but you know what I meant.. I do not work for a buck for example.. I take the easy way now and shoot deer in my back yard or close to the roads ... BUT I'm 65... and never expected the PGC to make deer hunting easy for me in my younger years either...
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S-10
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RE: few days in
2010/10/09 05:04:08
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Doc Quote== BUT I'm 65... and never expected the PGC to make deer hunting easy for me in my younger years either... _____________________________ Just a young guy are you. Neither did I but I did expect them to do what they were established to do in the first place which is enact and enforce laws to prevent the overharvesting of the states wildlife. I did not expect them to enact rules to reduce the deer herd to the point where it is no longer reasonable or logical to hunt them in areas of the state. I do hold them responsible and accountable for the loss of deer hunters over and above the national average, and it is not because of the age of the states hunters. If it was the average age would be going down as the older hunters quit and were replaced by younger ones. Walleye--Shooting the doe with fawns is up to the shooter but the big doe you shoot under your stand today may be the one that would have pulled the big buck under your stand tomorrow,back on topic. 
post edited by S-10 - 2010/10/09 05:26:16
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270wbmag
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RE: few days in
2010/10/09 06:23:23
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see, the problem is that most of the doe hunters never see fawns when they are couple days old and growing up like i do, i see deer everyday, watch the fawns all summer and how they depend on mother doe to survive,,if people don't have the compasion to let something walk and shoot something that does not have a little 4month old fawn, they are not a sportsman in my opinion, do you need that meat to survive, then shoot it..if shooting just to go brag about shooting a deer with a bow, shame on you..thats my point, it wasn't the last day of season, first week, let her walk, more deer in woods, maybe doe without a fawn,,walleye you did right, you have a heart, I am not an anti hunter..just have a compasion for animals, they like living just like we do..rsb, you pgc 's are all alike..kill everydeer out there..you have no heart either..there are killers and hunters..i have seen hunters/killers shoot 40 lb fawns and jump around like they shot a 12 pt buck..hunter or killer?????..no sportsmanship there..you young guys might change your tune when you get into your 60's..and realize you don't have too many years left, it might be more enjoyable to watch wildlife than kill them for your ego..
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Dr. Trout
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RE: few days in
2010/10/09 09:04:44
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a 4 month old fawn can not be compared to humans just to get compassion....
that 4 moth old fawn in another two months can become mature enough to become a mother..
I watch fawns everyday every year too and it still is amazing to me how qucikly they learn and become mature wise animals, being able to support themselfs within a year of birth...
IMHO it's a shame you were taught what you were taught about hunting and the harvesting of animals in your youth and have carried that until today...
I guess shooting squirrels or rabbits is really a no-no in your book.. look how small and cuddly they are... and you probably do not fish because that hook has to hurt when set in the fish's mouth...
and what about that beautiful, majestic 12 point buck with the 24 inch spread.. how could anyone want to kill and remove that beautiful animal from its home and family... ???
sounds a bit hypocritical to me to say one thing about a male and something else about a female ????
your teachings as a youth are refelexed in your attitudes and writing today, very angry and very negative.... that's a shame........
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Dr. Trout
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RE: few days in
2010/10/09 09:20:09
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I did not expect them to enact rules to reduce the deer herd to the point where it is no longer reasonable or logical to hunt them in areas of the state.
So what you are saying is you did not want them to do their job and acheive their goals of managing all Pa wildlife.. you wanted them to do whatever it was that makes you and some deer hunters happy --- the hell with everyone else .. right ??? The average age is not going down as old ones quit because there are not enough young hunters to off-set the baby-boomers quiting.. that is simple math and easy to understand... and that is not the PGC fault... but you believe what you want and I will continue to post what I believe to be the facts..... you get into your 60's..and realize you don't have too many years left, it might be more enjoyable to watch wildlife than kill them for your ego..
that sounds like me (60s).... NOPE not me ... it's enjoyable to watch and take photos SURE... but it is not the same feelings as planning a succesful hunt and enjoying that little feeling of how our fore-fathers had to live and survive ... I hope the very last hunt I go on before the happy hunting grounds hits.... I do what I do every hunting or fishing trip ... I tell the wife as Davy Crockett, Daniel Boone, the Indains etc did... ""Honey I am going out to get us dinner"" .... course there have been time we would have gone HUNGRY !!! With that idea and the knowledge of my part in helping to manange the wildlife in our state.. is what it's all about for me.. bragging about the points, antlers, weight, beard, girth, spurs, etc.. yeah I understand how and why some enjoy that.. I just enjoy the thrill of the hunt and am "happy as punch" with a harvest.. and yep... I usally do not jump up and down == but I do do a little dance and recite a little prayer... !!!!!!! silly huh ????????
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/10/09 09:22:06
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dpms
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RE: few days in
2010/10/09 09:37:56
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ORIGINAL: 270wbmag
it might be more enjoyable to watch wildlife than kill them for your ego..
Again since you have no clue bout me or my ethics, let me give a few examples. I have sat in treestands during deer seasons with no tags to fill. Last year I filled a buck tag and doe tag early in archery. Still took by scheduled week off in November and sat in some stands without my bow. Why? to watch the deer. I usually pass several AR legal bucks every year and probably more than 100 doe every year. Last night I had a mature doe and four fawns under me for 1/2 hour and chose not to fill one of my tags on her. I could go on but I am not sure you would see any sportsmanship in it anyway? Spreading trash about other hunters plays right into the hands of those that really hate us, 270. Some day I hope you can look beyond the teachings you experienced and promote the sport in positive ways.
post edited by dpms - 2010/10/09 09:38:44
My rifle is a black rifle
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