hoch999
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drilling rig water
yesterday a friend and i were walking the trail above Dawson and we noticed 4 large trucks pumping water out of the yough for what i'm thinking is water for fracking a well just north of dawson off of rt 819 (crown drilling rig#8). while we were fishing above dawson, we heard more pumping and when we came back 2 hours later, there were 4 more trucks pumping and 2 more in line. i'm wondering, is the state getting compensated for this water or are these companies getting it for free? i've also heard about water being pumped out of virgin run creek, below the dam. this isn't a good sign, and i'm wondering if something shouldn't be done about it. any suggestions would be helpful.
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dewey123
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/22 14:47:03
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im sure with what they pay in permits they paid plenty for that water. They should suck all the water they want out of there...suck it dry. There are plenty of tree hugging tattle tales out there that probably already called the state.
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akitadog
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/22 15:11:21
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there is a old minning lake close to my house. it is huge and there has been many boats on it with depth finders that read over 100' deep. they been pumping the water out filling up the same sort of trucks. sometimes when you get to that aera traffic is backed up for a long time cause all the trucks going in and out to fill up. i been told by sevrel people that at least 200 trucks go in and out of there daily.
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SonofZ3
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/22 15:35:59
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You're on a fishing board promoting streams being drained dry? yeah.........
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moooooo4me
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/22 16:34:11
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im sure theres plenty of water in the yough, how much do you think permits are?
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tull66 
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/22 17:42:29
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flyway
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/22 20:39:13
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There are plenty of tree hugging tattle tales out there that probably already called the state. I wish there were some tree hugging tattle tales running around before Dunkard Creek died.
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tull66
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/22 21:19:34
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ORIGINAL: flyway
I wish there were some tree hugging tattle tales running around before Dunkard Creek died. Was someone doing something illegal on Dunkard?
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fishrmn
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/22 22:55:22
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ORIGINAL: flyway
There are plenty of tree hugging tattle tales out there that probably already called the state.
I wish there were some tree hugging tattle tales running around before Dunkard Creek died.
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Split Shot
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/22 23:38:33
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Maybe they are drilling on dewey's land and he wants his royalties.
My Wife said, if I go fish'n one more time, she'll leave me! God, I'm going to miss her!
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tippecanoe
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/23 00:09:10
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ORIGINAL: tull66
ORIGINAL: flyway
I wish there were some tree hugging tattle tales running around before Dunkard Creek died.
Was someone doing something illegal on Dunkard?
Not illegal, no. The legislators wouldn't want to tie the hands of the people putting their f***ing great great great grand children though college now would they? The executive branch wouldn't want to enforce anything either. It is really hard to buy an Italian shotgun on a DEP salary. I don't know about you, but I would rather hug a tree then Mr. Burns.
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ddubs3
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/23 07:54:57
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ORIGINAL: hoch999
yesterday a friend and i were walking the trail above Dawson and we noticed 4 large trucks pumping water out of the yough for what i'm thinking is water for fracking a well just north of dawson off of rt 819 (crown drilling rig#8). while we were fishing above dawson, we heard more pumping and when we came back 2 hours later, there were 4 more trucks pumping and 2 more in line. i'm wondering, is the state getting compensated for this water or are these companies getting it for free? i've also heard about water being pumped out of virgin run creek, below the dam. this isn't a good sign, and i'm wondering if something shouldn't be done about it. any suggestions would be helpful.
If you do the math, the water they withdraw from a river like the Yough is quite insignificant.
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H20Wolf
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/23 08:34:32
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I wouldn't be as concerned about what they take out of the yough as much as what ends up going back into it (i.e. Dunkard)
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eyesandgillz
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/23 09:31:29
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ORIGINAL: H20Wolf
I wouldn't be as concerned about what they take out of the yough as much as what ends up going back into it (i.e. Dunkard)
yepper... Those trucks only hold a couple thousand gallons. For a river the size of the Yough, it shouldn't be that big of a deal but, I have seen them hitting the little sewickley pretty hard right in Herminie and they do have an effect on the stream flow when they are drawing water from the smaller streams, esp. during low flow conditions. Hopefully they control the water in the wasterwater ponds a little better and don't let them overflow.
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flyway
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/23 10:19:13
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Troutboy02
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/23 10:44:08
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Water coming out of the system is still water coming out of the system, regardless of how much they are taking per truck. Fluctuations in river flows are normal and a good thing, but having consistently low flows due to withdrawals is not. Those pump trucks run pretty regularly (within limits established by the DEP) and you have to think that it will eventually add up.
It's already been established that the state and industry isn't really ready to handle an emergency (ie the blowout in Clearfield) and won't even have a preliminary report on drilling until 2011, yet they are letting this stuff run at full throttle. Are they going to suck the Yough dry? Not a chance, but they are still taking water from the river when it really needs it the most.
Word on the street is that Hazelbakers is giving access to those trucks at Dawson. I am scratching my head here as to why a business that depends on the health of the river would allow such a risk?
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DanesDad
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/23 14:09:30
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They ought to be using polluted water from the creeks around here. Theres one here that is orange. They could drain that sucker dry and nobody or nothing would be worse off.
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bulldog1
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/23 14:38:26
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ORIGINAL: capcity_tim
This is only the beginning...
+1 You ain't seen nothin' yet...
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musky maniac
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/23 18:34:50
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well lets face it..before its all said and done are rivers are gonna take on alot of damage from the gas drilling, lets just hope and pray its not devastating like we saw at dunkard creek..epa is dishin out tougher guidelines for the drillin process but this is soooo big and billions of dollars is to be made from this its not gonna slow down or go away, just hope the rivers yough, mon, allegheny can make it through.. lets not waste time lets catch fish and enjoy what we all love to do...
WORK HARD.....FISH HARDER !
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Split Shot
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/23 20:17:27
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Troutboy, he is probably going to make more money letting them on his property, than renting out canoes.
My Wife said, if I go fish'n one more time, she'll leave me! God, I'm going to miss her!
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hoch999
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/23 20:31:07
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ORIGINAL: ddubs3
ORIGINAL: hoch999
yesterday a friend and i were walking the trail above Dawson and we noticed 4 large trucks pumping water out of the yough for what i'm thinking is water for fracking a well just north of dawson off of rt 819 (crown drilling rig#8). while we were fishing above dawson, we heard more pumping and when we came back 2 hours later, there were 4 more trucks pumping and 2 more in line. i'm wondering, is the state getting compensated for this water or are these companies getting it for free? i've also heard about water being pumped out of virgin run creek, below the dam. this isn't a good sign, and i'm wondering if something shouldn't be done about it. any suggestions would be helpful.
If you do the math, the water they withdraw from a river like the Yough is quite insignificant.
ddubs, let's do some math, 1.westmoreland water authority's pumping station behind the old anchor hocking plant is pumping several million gallons of water per day from the yough. 2. there is a bottled water facility pumping approx. 1 million gallons of water from laurel hill creek (i'm not sure of the amount of water pumped per day), a tributary of the yough. 3. north fayette county water authority has a pumping station just upstream of westoreland county's pumping station, although i'm not sure of the amount of water it draws from the yough each day. 4. after talking to several members of fracking crews, i learned that fracking a well requires approx. 1 milliom gallons per well and i personally know of 5 separate wells within 5 miles of my home (i live just outside of connellsville).5. wells must be refracked from time to time to keep them producing (times vary for each well). add these up and i think you'll agree that this river is being over stressed. we've had several good years of decent rains,but you know as well as i do we can also have several consecutive years of drought, which will put even more stress on this watershed. we have a decent smallmouth population here, and smallies are the only gamefish that actually reproduces in the yough with any reasonable amount of sucess. it's not unreasonable to conclude that a drought at the right time, combined with the above listed water withdrawls could seriously harm fish populations in this river. i've been fishing this river for almost 50 years and i'm becoming quite concerned with the amount of water being withdrawn from it. there is a significant difference in water levels from just 20 years ago. yes, we do need to be concerned, because this is the death of a thousand slices.
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ddubs3
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/24 07:34:54
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ORIGINAL: hoch999
ORIGINAL: ddubs3
ORIGINAL: hoch999
yesterday a friend and i were walking the trail above Dawson and we noticed 4 large trucks pumping water out of the yough for what i'm thinking is water for fracking a well just north of dawson off of rt 819 (crown drilling rig#8). while we were fishing above dawson, we heard more pumping and when we came back 2 hours later, there were 4 more trucks pumping and 2 more in line. i'm wondering, is the state getting compensated for this water or are these companies getting it for free? i've also heard about water being pumped out of virgin run creek, below the dam. this isn't a good sign, and i'm wondering if something shouldn't be done about it. any suggestions would be helpful.
If you do the math, the water they withdraw from a river like the Yough is quite insignificant.
ddubs, let's do some math, 1.westmoreland water authority's pumping station behind the old anchor hocking plant is pumping several million gallons of water per day from the yough. 2. there is a bottled water facility pumping approx. 1 million gallons of water from laurel hill creek (i'm not sure of the amount of water pumped per day), a tributary of the yough. 3. north fayette county water authority has a pumping station just upstream of westoreland county's pumping station, although i'm not sure of the amount of water it draws from the yough each day. 4. after talking to several members of fracking crews, i learned that fracking a well requires approx. 1 milliom gallons per well and i personally know of 5 separate wells within 5 miles of my home (i live just outside of connellsville).5. wells must be refracked from time to time to keep them producing (times vary for each well). add these up and i think you'll agree that this river is being over stressed. we've had several good years of decent rains,but you know as well as i do we can also have several consecutive years of drought, which will put even more stress on this watershed. we have a decent smallmouth population here, and smallies are the only gamefish that actually reproduces in the yough with any reasonable amount of sucess. it's not unreasonable to conclude that a drought at the right time, combined with the above listed water withdrawls could seriously harm fish populations in this river. i've been fishing this river for almost 50 years and i'm becoming quite concerned with the amount of water being withdrawn from it. there is a significant difference in water levels from just 20 years ago. yes, we do need to be concerned, because this is the death of a thousand slices.
Those numbers you have aren't very good. You can find better ones simply by looking at well operator press releases. Not all the water needed for a frac comes from the Yough. It can come from various sources: municipalities, rivers, reused from previous fracs, mine drainage. In times of drought, you are not allowed to withdraw from rivers and streams.
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RhnstnCowboy
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/24 07:54:10
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If you do the math, the water they withdraw from a river like the Yough is quite insignificant. Tell that to the people who live on Laurel Hill Creek
"Part of being a Leftist is the smug conviction that you and people like you are smart, while everyone else is stupid and/or evil" - T. Fleming
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tull66
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/24 08:58:01
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If they didn't withdraw it from a river, wouldn't the water be sliding away anyway? Isn't any rivers water constantly leaving? ...constantly being refilled? Isn't the Yough resevoir hording the water? Isn't there a finite and never changing quantity of water on the planet?
Just askin'!
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Accountant
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/24 10:29:09
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The rationalization of "gee, theres lots of water, who cares?" is pretty shorsighted
100 years ago, the steel industry said "gee, its just some toxic chemicals, slag, etc, but its a big river, too! no one will be impacted if we dump it in there!"
Pennsylvania is still dealing with acid mine runoff from mines that have been out of comission for a hundred years. Just because it's harmless in small portions does not mean it wont have a long term impact.
Moreover, how many wells are in the Dawson area now? How many more will come in the next decade? At when point does it become too much water?
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RhnstnCowboy
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/24 11:16:04
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ORIGINAL: Accountant
The rationalization of "gee, theres lots of water, who cares?" is pretty shorsighted
100 years ago, the steel industry said "gee, its just some toxic chemicals, slag, etc, but its a big river, too! no one will be impacted if we dump it in there!"
Pennsylvania is still dealing with acid mine runoff from mines that have been out of comission for a hundred years. Just because it's harmless in small portions does not mean it wont have a long term impact.
Moreover, how many wells are in the Dawson area now? How many more will come in the next decade? At when point does it become too much water?
Yes. Not to mention that they already pull an enormous amount of water from the Yough tribs like the Casselman, Laurel Hill Creek, Indian Creek, etc. Pulling huge amounts of water from all the tribs + pulling huge amounts of water from main stem Yough + dumping God-knows-what back into the rivers = Ecological Disaster. Ask anyone on Dunkard Creek. Ask anyone on Laurel Hill Creek. Dewey, your a jackAZZ
"Part of being a Leftist is the smug conviction that you and people like you are smart, while everyone else is stupid and/or evil" - T. Fleming
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SonofZ3
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/24 11:17:11
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Tull: just because the overall ammount of water in the global water cycle is more or less the same does not mean that the ammount of usable, potable, fresh water remains the same. Also, taking a global view is simply a cop out to ignore pollution and other issues on a local level. Why not drain lake erie so Las Vegas has access to large ammounts of fresh water? I mean hey, theres still the same ammount of water in the system, right?
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tull66
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/24 12:48:15
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Pretty incredible what folks read, or think they read in a post.
I never spoke of pollution. Heck, I didn't even make a statement. I asked 5 questions. Never dreamt of draining a lake. Somebody tell Sonofz3 that all the water in the Yough eventually winds up as saltwater.
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RhnstnCowboy
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/24 12:58:15
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Somebody tell Sonofz3 that all the water in the Yough eventually winds up as saltwater. Thats not even close to true.
"Part of being a Leftist is the smug conviction that you and people like you are smart, while everyone else is stupid and/or evil" - T. Fleming
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hiclassHilbilly
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RE: drilling rig water
2010/08/24 15:14:37
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Dont worry guys. I have some dealings with a drilling company and their practices are being refined all the time. They are recycling more and more of the fracking water and as time goes on, I would not be suprized to see 80%+ recycled. The cost of waste treatment and disposal is enormous.
The drillers are not out to destroy the environment. Drilling in the North East has presented unique challenges that the drillers don't normally face, related to the high water table. They are constantly evolving this process and It will be significantly different 3 years from now than what it is today.
"A Homewood man led police on an hourlong car chase that ended with a crash injuring three officers. "The car was driving itself," Wright said. "The car has a GPS. It's a Lincoln Navigator. They drive themselves. I wasn't running nowhere."
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