20HP motor , prop & boat ?

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fryem
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2010/06/28 13:24:38 (permalink)

20HP motor , prop & boat ?

first the equipment 2010 Tohatsu 20HP long shaft factory prop 9 inch pitch
Alumacraft navigator 165 boat weight is 980Lbs empty The boat has a wide beam 93 inches and is 91 inches wide at the transom motor weighs approx 120 lbs 1 group 27 battery in back and 1 group 27 size battery up front usally keep 10 gallons in the rear gas tank it is a tiller steer so add my 230 lbs to the back of the boat.
 
I thought the boat might be able to go about 15mph Top speed is 9.3 MPH on GPS, motor will only spin at 5000RPM also motor is set on the lowest trim rod setting to help push the bow down.
 
Question is, will a shorter pitch prop help the MPH and motor RPM? the owners manual says select a prop so that you have a RPM of 5400 to 6100 at WOT Also any ideas on how to get bow down for a more level ride.
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    eyesandgillz
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    RE: 20HP motor , prop & boat ? 2010/06/28 13:48:56 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: fryem

    first the equipment 2010 Tohatsu 20HP long shaft factory prop 9 inch pitch
    Alumacraft navigator 165 boat weight is 980Lbs empty The boat has a wide beam 93 inches and is 91 inches wide at the transom motor weighs approx 120 lbs 1 group 27 battery in back and 1 group 27 size battery up front usally keep 10 gallons in the rear gas tank it is a tiller steer so add my 230 lbs to the back of the boat.

    I thought the boat might be able to go about 15mph Top speed is 9.3 MPH on GPS, motor will only spin at 5000RPM also motor is set on the lowest trim rod setting to help push the bow down.

    Question is, will a shorter pitch prop help the MPH and motor RPM? the owners manual says select a prop so that you have a RPM of 5400 to 6100 at WOT Also any ideas on how to get bow down for a more level ride.

     
    You should be getting more IMO.  How much, not sure but here is my set-up...
     
    I have a 14' starcraft Deep V with a semi-waterlogged full floor (original owner spray foamed underneath the floor and it holds water), casting deck, 3 swivel seats (2 mounted on top of benches), 6 gal. tank @ transom, 15 hp tiller, 55# bow mount electric, 45# transom mountelectric, 3 and sometimes 4 group 27 batteries (2 in back and 1 or 2 up front), homemade livewell, 2 anchors, 6 rods/reels, 2 tackle bags and usually a bucket of minnies and a small cooler and I can get 12-14 mph gps out of my boat on a good day.  My boat weighs more than yours, I think.  I can get up to 16 mph gps if I run light with fuel, batteries and equipment. 
     
    Maybe a combo of getting the motor re-propped and then weight distribution in your boat.  If I don't have things moved around just right, I lose 2 mph easy with the bow riding high.  Can you move fuel up front or midship or is it in a built in tank?  Do you have room up front for the transom battery and then run wires to a panel in the back?  I'd keep less fuel in your tank if you can and keep sea foam in it to help with moisture.  I keep thinking 6 gallons is a lot of fuel for me for the smaller lakes. 
    #2
    Lovgren69
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    RE: 20HP motor , prop & boat ? 2010/06/28 14:27:02 (permalink)
    I would assume that @ 9 mph your boat is not getting up on plane. Going 1 pitch lower on your prop should gain you about 200 rpm's or so. I'm not sure @ what speed your boat will plane out, but I had a 16.5' ft Deep-V Princecraft w/ a 20hp. Yamaha 4 stroke and it would do about 18-20 mph @ wot. If I remember right it would jump on plane right around 14-15 mph. Once you get your boat up on plane the bow of your boat will level back down.

    I would reccomend that before you go out and buy a new prop that you try and raise that motor up one or two holes. By leaving it in the lowest position you effectively have more drag on the engine during running. This will also contribute to your engine set-up not obataining the max rpm's at wide open throttle. As was already mentioned, try redistributing some of the weight in your boat. Smaller boats can be sensistive to this, especially when you are right on the threshold of having enough motor to put your boat up on plane.

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    pghmarty
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    RE: 20HP motor , prop & boat ? 2010/06/28 14:39:58 (permalink)
    Same size stainless prop will get more rpm than aluminum
    8 pitch same width stainless might fix it


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    bulldog1
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    RE: 20HP motor , prop & boat ? 2010/06/28 15:19:06 (permalink)
    If your gas is in the 6 gallon remote tank, simply try moving it forward. Sounds like you have alot of weight in the rear of the boat. When I was by myself in my aluminum I would move the tank as far forward as the gas line would allow, boat planed and was fairly fast for a 9.9. Also agree on moving lifting the trim stop and experimenting with that. You'll have to be careful changing props, it sounds like you are just on the edge of planing and that rpm will jump quick once she get up on plane.
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    fryem
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    RE: 20HP motor , prop & boat ? 2010/06/28 15:55:49 (permalink)
    Thanks for the input...the gas tank is built in so I cant move it. I am going to put a second trolling motor battery in the front battery compartment for more weight up front and leave cranking battery in the back compartment.  
     
    I can't really raise the motor any higher with out buying some kind of Jack plate. I can change the trim setting /angle to a higher point but that just makes the bow ride even higher.
     
    I quess the next step would be a different prop as mentioned above as I do want to operate the motor in the rpm range that tohatsu specifies for WOT
    #6
    bulldog1
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    RE: 20HP motor , prop & boat ? 2010/06/28 15:59:45 (permalink)
    Actually that's what I meant, raise the trim angle. It will lift the bow early but should put less drag on it and allow it to plane out. If you can get someone fairly light to try it once to see if it planes out for them. Someone 100 or so pounds lighter. At least it will give you an indication of what you need to do weight distribution wise.
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    Fishin Dave
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    RE: 20HP motor , prop & boat ? 2010/06/28 19:08:37 (permalink)
    DO you have water in your livewells during you speed test because if you do then you have to account for the added weight at 8 pounds per gallon. I have a 17 foot bass boat with a 25 Merc 2 stroke with a stainless prop, power trim amd the boat has trim tabs. I jump on plane at 3/4 throttle and cruise at 28 MPH. The boat is a modified V desigh and I do realize that I have everything available to enhance the performance of my hull but it was well worth it to not have to run a WOT all the time and the additional fuel savings is a great plus also.
    #8
    pghmarty
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    RE: 20HP motor , prop & boat ? 2010/06/28 19:25:20 (permalink)
    Trim planes?
    Add a few wedges underneath boat at transom
    2" high 6" long 10" wide on both sides


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    fryem
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    RE: 20HP motor , prop & boat ? 2010/06/29 09:46:09 (permalink)
    The live well is empty when I was checking the speed... trim tabs I think would work but they are not an option as they would interfere with side scan sonar right and left side sonar beams.
     
    Has anybody ever used one of those wing looking things that bolt onto your outboard motor's lower unit right above the prop... advertistments claim they will lift the stern and level out the bow and allow smaller boats to get on plane etc etc.
    #10
    bulldog1
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    RE: 20HP motor , prop & boat ? 2010/06/29 11:33:35 (permalink)
    There have been a couple of threads on the subject, here's one

    http://forums.fishusa.com/trim_fin/m_316379/tm.htm
    #11
    Fishin Dave
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    RE: 20HP motor , prop & boat ? 2010/06/29 23:07:39 (permalink)
    I am not sure how the tabs would interfear with the transducer, I have 2 Humminbirds on my boat and they both have side shooting and I have never had any problem from my trim tabs. Been running the same setup since 2001 when I purchased the boat and had it rigged. Fish 300 days a year average for a few years and then had to get a real job so now it is only 250.
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    leadmen
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    RE: 20HP motor , prop & boat ? 2010/06/30 06:39:17 (permalink)
    batts in front keep the bow down if the option is there my 16ft has a 35hp long 2strok and its slow i mean faster than walking speed around 10mph but boat has counsel/2 batts 12 gal gas 1 bow mount 55lb one stern mount 44lb and a anchor in the bow so i think you would need a 25hp or little larger
    #13
    fryem
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    RE: 20HP motor , prop & boat ? 2010/06/30 11:06:07 (permalink)
    fishin dave,
     
    I was at looking at trim tabs and diagrams of where they go on the transom they will interfere with the Humminbird side imagaing transducer as I have the xducer located on the transom where humminbird says to put it
     
    Also humminbird did not introduce / begin selling side imagaing sonar until 2005 patent in 2004 (as a side note Humminbird is sueing lowrance for a patent infringment for thier introduction an marketing of Lowarnace structure scan http://www.humminbird.com/company/media/press_release.aspx?id=1332 
     
    I guess we dont have the same type transducer / sonar since you got yours in 2001
    It is true that trim tabs would not interfere with traditional 2D down looking sonar  
     
    thanks for the replies I guess it will be a processing of buying and tring one thing at a time
     
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    Fishin Dave
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    RE: 20HP motor , prop & boat ? 2010/06/30 23:20:36 (permalink)
    Thank you for correcting me, I was so amazed at your superior knowledge, I had to go get the paperwork from my boat purchase on July 6, 2001 at which time I purchased a 2001 Sylvan 17' Bass Boat, 25 elpt 25" shaft, Mercury Stainless Prop, 2 Humminbird 400TX Sonar Units, one mounted on the dash with a transducer switch to select the standard tri-beam transducer or the side shooting transducer which are both mounted on the transom along with the speed and temp sensor. I had a MInn Kota 55/12 Genesis installed on the bow with a side shooting transducer mounted to it for the forward deck mounted 400TX. My boat has gas actuated trim tabs installed and it also has first BayStealth Hydraulic steering unit installed. This boat was purchased and rigged at EMI Marine Center in Hanover, Pa. I was the General Manager at the time and had a very good relationship with all my suppliers and was able to research and get precisely what I wanted and much of these goodies were either given to me to test for the manufacturer or I purchased at cost. I am glad you know so much more about my boat then I do. I stand corrected and do apologize for giving such misguided information. I will make sure I never respond to anyone again since I apparently don't know anything.
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    fryem
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    RE: 20HP motor , prop & boat ? 2010/07/01 12:06:03 (permalink)
    fishin dave,
     
    relax...I wasn't sayin anything about your set-up knowledge or equipment...I just sayin that I dont think we have the same equipment based on your desription and date of purchase... I check the the Humminbird site for software updates I knew about the link and offered it has info to anybody that wanted to look.  I apprecaite responses to my questions and I think that I should respond back to someone who takes the time to respond,
     
    Take it easy man where did I say you dont know anything? All I said was based on the humminbird website (which I check every week or so for software updates)  I dont think we have the same equipment. I posted the link so all would know what my application was as relating back to my orginal question in hopes that some one else had the same issues.  
    I was giving you the courtesy of a response to your input to my question (I appreciate responses), because in my case the tabs will interfere with the sonar. and as you point point out in your response you dont have the same sonar unit
    I think my application as far as sonar and trim tabs would only apply to Humminbird 797si through the current 1100 series. I am using the 798ci SI combo unit for the record if anybody else wants to help.
     
     
    #16
    Bogeyjoker
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    RE: 20HP motor , prop & boat ? 2010/07/01 12:24:41 (permalink)
    Ummm Dave... fryem is referring to Side Imaging sonar, not a side shooting transducer (which has been around for 15-20 years). You're kinda coming off as a bit of a child here. I don't think he was scolding you or calling you a liar...just pointing out that what you have on your boat must be different than what he has, because side imaging sonar did not exist before 2005.
    #17
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