Here I go again...

I really hope you all get to read the article in the August Field & Stream on pg.70.  I'll be out there this fall trying to stick a broadhead into a buck using my crossbow, and if I do, I'll be very fortunate.  In fact, I'll be trying, once again, to kill my FIRST deer with the crossbow.  This will be the first year I'll have it out in the rut.  As is explained well enough in the article, it's not like picking up a scoped rifle that's been sitting in a cabinet since you filled your last tag, and shooting tight groups straight off. 

I'm not starting this thread to bring up the old argument about crossbows being included throughout all of archery season, rather that the weapon should have a place as a tool for hunters during the rut.  It's a close-range device, just as a recurve and compound bow are, and the best time to utilize it is during the rut, just as those other bows.  If you disagree, like the author suggests, shoot one.  You'll change your mind.

TT ..

I came back to this and noticed you've written 8 sentances, 6 of them being about your defense of a crossbow, 2 about actual hunting. It's pretty apparant of your purpose.

So.. HERE I GO AGAIN.

Many crossbows have a "safety" feature.

They're predrawn.

Their projectile isn't even considered an arrow but a "bolt."

A recordbook deer is not even recognized if its taken with a crossbow. There are reasons for that.

We could get REAL techincal about the internals of a crossbow and how they parallel a rifle. The internal ballistics are fixed but on a bow they are the function of the shooter.
One thing is certain, despite today's innovative technology with the compund bow, the semantics still remain the same; it must be drawn.

I could go on and on and on.

Perhaps if you'd focus on a topic when starting a thread such as hunting the rut instead of trying to persuade with what little similiarities these two weapons have based on some article (I can show you 100 articles about their extreme differences and thousands of others backing it up .. if you'd like), we could have a constructive conversation. Until then, I hope you get a good one. 

How about during that Muzzleloader doe season in October.
 
Cant you use em during rifle?
 
The crossbow is definitely a short range weapon, but you have to admit that walking around with it cocked and ready is a huge advantage over having to draw a conventional longbow or compound.

Here's a great discussion on a hunting board.  It's an old discussion, but Big Tom has it right on!

http://realdealhuntingchat.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=4811

Your second paragraph rings with the truth.  Anyone who really is ethical would not go in the woods to use one if they were only shooting as you say "to keep your eye", just as a rifle shooter shouldn't aproach their season that way.  I know it happens, but no one ever tried to keep people from using rifles to hunt deer because some riflemen are lazy.  Except SilverKype.

They actually are at a range-disadvantage.  Less retained kinetic energy and faster drop.

"there may be less movement generated to fire a crossbow than a flintlock."

I got you on this one.  I know you said you're not really arguing against them, but I've got to say this much...

Think about it.  There's more movement.  Or, at least more to move.  You've got the wide beams of the crossbow sticking out to the sides of your body profile.  I've never been able to shoot at a deer with my crossbow when I didn't raise it before the deer came remotely in-range.  I was busted EVERY time I had to raise the thing in front of a deer.  I've stood mere yards away from deer and have been able to pull my flinter or rifle up to shoulder it to fire before they realized my movements.  I've never hunted deer with a hand-held bow, but I've got to think the hand and arm movements involved are similar to raising a rifle (and crossbow), except for the elbow.  I'm thinking that's what gets you busted.  That elbow sticking way out to the side of your profile.  Then again, you're also up in a tree, right?

There's got to be more people with opinions on this than the 3 of us.  I guess they are all still fishing.  Me, well the minute I've got to start getting my tags bought and ordered is when bass season ends.  **** the PAGC.  They've effectively ruined mid to late summer fishing.  It's all about venison from now on.


...until the tribs start to get runs.

You didn't say please.

Anytime.  What's your real motive?  Neighbor's cat trying to make babies with your's?

ORIGINAL: T.T.

Anytime.  What's your real motive?  Neighbor's cat trying to make babies with your's?

 
 
 Groundhogs and Skunks  LOL 

BTW T.T.  The wife and I made it 25 Years as of today woo hoo Ya think we might make it another 25????????

Remember she kicked me out   To the rear she got tired of all my fly tying and rod building taking up the front room
 

What do they say?  Distance makes the heart grow fonder.

Back to the topic at hand.  Why are you, and so many like you, so threatened by crossbows, SilverKype?  Don't give me the argument about slobs, as every season and every weapon attracts it's fair share of them.  Do you really think there will be that many more people in the woods because of them?  If I thought that, I'd say keep 'em separate as well.  Anyone who knows me knows that I'm all for reducing our herd. 

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

I guess I have trouble believing a 36 year old who fishes steelhead (yeah they pull pretty hard sometimes), can't pull back a 40 pound bow.  Oh, I saw a young fella shoot a doe with 30 draw.  He is nine.  With letoff .. that's about 10 pounds.

You must be in REALLY bad shape TT.

 
Jon just for the record I fight Steel all season but still can not draw a bow enough to be proficient.....

Good morning TT ---
 
You sure are reluctant to answer the question. 
 
In case you misunderstood -- ONCE AGAIN, I asked why YOU can legally shoot a crossbow.   Why can't you answer that? 
 
I didn't ask what the law was.

Just gotta add my $.02
 
 
There are a few reasons I believe that crossbows do not belong in archery season. But, before I get to those reasons, let me explain my paradigm of archery season. Archery hunting, to me, is a season that takes skill, patience, year long practice, and persistance. To me, archery hunting is not intended to be easy, one reason is the effective range of a bow. The other is that a bow is typically harder to shoot than a rifle or crossbow, due to the fact that you have to draw a lot of weight, and hold it until a responsable shot presents itself. You can not "rest" a bow on a solid object to make yourself more accurate in the same way you can a crossbow, or rifle. Therefore, you rely on your own skill, rather than resting you weapon to make your shot comparatively easier. Also, crossbows are often affixed with scopes which can make a shot with a crossbow easier in the same way it makes shooting a rifle easier.
 
Crossbows and bows are only similar in the way that they launch an arrow with a string and limbs. Otherwise, crossbows are more similar to rifles, except for thier range, which unfortunately, many ignorant people believe is much further than a bow.
 
My opinion is that most people want to use a crossbow, because they feel it is much easier to shoot, and don't want to put in the practice time to learn to shoot a bow. These are people that essentially want to hunt archery season, but don't want to be inconvenienced with the amount of time it takes to be accurate with a bow. 
 
I understand not everyone can effectively shoot a bow due to back problems etc... Those that truley cant shoot a bow for this reason, I believe, should be allowed to hunt with a crossbow. Otherwise, if you want to hunt archery season, buy a bow and learn to shoot it. Just like, if you want to fish in a flyfish only area on a stream, buy a flyrod. Nobody is stopping you.

Couldn't agree more guys.

I have already talked with the CEO of PA Game Commission about crossbows in PA.  He didn't care to say much until I told him I'd just listen and I did.

He didn't give an opinion on when they will become legal, he's not sure.  It is my opinion, at some point, they will, because of declining license sales and the need to make up that void. That said, archery season will be from Sept - January by then.    Dpms hit the nail on the head.  Carl Roe said seasons will be shorter.  You MAY have a shorter rifle season.  Is that what you want?  Let's not be SELFISH now.  Let the crossbowers hunt too. Oh no .. now it's threatening your rifle season.  LOL    You could make a bet that your early muzzloader season (you won't be getting an antlered season here boys) will be gone if crossbows come in too.  You still want it?  We only have so many resources and can only allow so much demand for them in a given season.  We certainly don't want LESS deer do we?  Then , we'd be ****ing about that.   Anyone think it's ok to implement semi-auto's during rifle?  Sad thing is some people you use them if they could.  Where does the line get drawn?  When is enough just that, .... enough?

I'll be a little more blunt than the two fellas above.  Bowhunters don't want a bunch of "chumps" entering the woods that don't belong there with crossbows.  Same goes for traditional archers.  They didn't want a bunch of chumps entering the woods with compounds.  It's the truth -- accept it.

I totally agree with the temporary crossbow permit for actual disabled folks..  The fact of the matter is though, people take advantage of it.  Cheating the law to gain an unfair advantage is SELFISH.  That right there, is why I don't like crossbows other than the fact that people keep telling me they are a bow and arrow.

God forbid you use a "lesser" weapon in rifle season.