Help with Trolling Setup

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FiveDog
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2007/05/31 23:00:03 (permalink)

Help with Trolling Setup

I was wondering if someone could answer a few basics on getting setup to troll for walleyes in Erie.  For the past two years I have only fished for perch.  I have two basic questions:
 
First my boat has 250hp four stroke and no kicker.  Will I be able to troll with this motor alone and if not what is the best way to slow it down - trolling brake, drift sock, etc.(I am not adding a kicker this year)?  If drift socks are to be used - will they go off the bow or the stern? 
 
My second question is what equipment would you recommend for a beginner?  (i.e. two dipsey divers and two downriggers, four dipsey divers, something else I haven't mentioned)  And what is the typical alignment (i.e. downriggers in the middle and dipsey's on the outside?)
 
I am trying to start out as simple and inexpensive as possible, but don't want to buy something that I'll be unhappy with in a few years.  If I catch one walleye this summer, I'll consider it successful.
 
Thanks for the help.
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    pudge1970
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    RE: Help with Trolling Setup 2007/05/31 23:17:48 (permalink)
    If I was to start out, I would get 4 GOOD quality rod holders 4 trolling rods with line counters and set up with 20lb. Fireline. good snap swivels and 17lb. mono leader with 2 large and 2 small dipsy divers. You don't need the riggers. Just the rod holders, poles, line, rods and tackle will run you 400 to 500 dollars
    #2
    Luke 9:23
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    RE: Help with Trolling Setup 2007/06/01 07:16:37 (permalink)
    I think the four strokes will idle down without loading up as a two stroke.
    You need to watch the speed and stay between 2 and 2.5.

    Luke 9:23
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    Carpet Bagger
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    RE: Help with Trolling Setup 2007/06/01 09:47:45 (permalink)
    You need to be able to get under 2mph.  Look into gettin troll bags.  This should allow you to do so without buying a kicker.
     
    For a beginner 4 dipsy rods.  Set 2 at 3.5 and 2 at 1 and you should be all set.  Might want to invest in some rodholders, tite-loc, big jon, pursuit, or berts custom tackle if you plan on running dipsy rods.  Any local bait shop should be able to help you out.

    CB
    I never thought I'd say this, but I love my Sport-Craft!
    #4
    Storm Warning 2
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    RE: Help with Trolling Setup 2007/06/01 10:07:24 (permalink)
    Trolling under 2 only seems to be necessary in early season when fish are post spawn and still somewhat lethargic.  Once it fires up, I prefer 2.3 to 2.7 for trolling eyes and will help you hook more steel when it is around. 
     
    As for a beginner set up.  How many guys will you plan on fishing with?  If  you have more than 2, I would recommend riggers.  You can easily multiply what you are doing with riggers with sliders or stackers.  So in essence you can run 4 rods off two riggers.  I would DEFINITELY recommend 4 dipsy set ups.  2 braid, 2 mono.  4 #1 large dipsys.  Run the braids inside on a 2 or 3 setting, you won't have to let them out as far to achieve desired depth.  Run the monos on 3.5 so you get separation away from the boat and braid sets.  I would also HIGHLY recommend you pick up the Precision Angling Offshore book so you can correlate where your bait sets are in comparison to where you are seeing fish on your electronics or proximity to bottom.   
    #5
    FiveDog
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    RE: Help with Trolling Setup 2007/06/01 10:59:15 (permalink)
    Thanks for all the advice. 
     
    It sounds like I need to get four Dipsey Diver rods to begin with and perhaps a drift sock.  I assume I can use the rod holders installed in the gunnels.
    #6
    Carpet Bagger
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    RE: Help with Trolling Setup 2007/06/01 11:35:20 (permalink)
    mono on dipsys is a terrible idea.....not only do they not dive as deep but they are a pain in the arse to trip...

    Gunnel rod holders will work, but not as good as those that you can lay our from the boat.....If you want to be serious about this invest in some quality rod holders thay you can lay down.  You can even buy a flush mount setup that allows them to be placed in one of your gunnel mounts without drilling and they are very fast to remove.
     
    If you click on my name next to me you can get a picture of my boat and its layout.  I think it is a pretty good example of what a great lakes rig should be...
    post edited by Carpet Bagger - 2007/06/01 11:36:10

    CB
    I never thought I'd say this, but I love my Sport-Craft!
    #7
    spoonchucker
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    RE: Help with Trolling Setup 2007/06/01 13:28:17 (permalink)
    I agree with buying GOOD rod holders cheap ones will just be agravating, and cost you that much more when you buy good ones. Also braided, or super braid, is the way to go on your dipsy rods, wire if you really want to get into it. You many need to buy socks I sometimes have trouble getting my 125 under 2.5. Get TWO socks, one makes steering very tough, even in calm water. I have oversized caribiners that I hook to my front rail. Take time to adjust the length so the they don't go back to far, and interfere eith your lines, or prop. BEFORE you start fishing. A second rope tied to the back of the bags, will make pulling them much easier.

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    #8
    Carpet Bagger
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    RE: Help with Trolling Setup 2007/06/01 13:42:01 (permalink)
    2 socks will not only slow you down but stabilize your vessel at this slow speed.  I used to drag bags before i got my 9.9 honda...now i am simply in heaven....

    CB
    I never thought I'd say this, but I love my Sport-Craft!
    #9
    Storm Warning 2
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    RE: Help with Trolling Setup 2007/06/01 13:58:08 (permalink)
    Hands down catch more dipsy fish for the last 2 years on mono.  ALWAYS catch the largest steelhead on the way out mono dipsy.  As you get farther away from the boat, there are fish higher in the water column which is a lot of times where bigger, more active fish are located.  It isn't always about getting deep.  You will catch most of your walleyes between 30 and 50 feet down.  In the salmon world, that is why they use mono divers as "high" divers, targeting out of temp kings and steelhead and coho that reside higher in the water column.  They aren't always a pain to trip if you adjust your tension screw accordingly.  I don't think I have ever run them back more than 180 or 185 on a 3.5 and they catch fish...period. 
    #10
    kc
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    RE: Help with Trolling Setup 2007/06/01 19:43:01 (permalink)
    Get two drift socks. Amish Outfitters make some really quality ones but get two as they will help slow you down and stabilize the boat in some choppy water. As for there position you should run them off of your spring cleat or the cleat that is along the side of your boat. Adjust the line so that the bag runs along side of your boat and attach a line to the other end of the bag and tie it off to your stern cleat so that you can pull the bag in quickly. I can slow my boat down to .8 mph and still keep the rpm's on the motor up a little to keep it running smooth and charging the batteries. You will find that you will have to vary which bag or bags you run according to the wind, current and what the fish wants. Also, you can use the bags while drifting to help either slow down or speed up the drift of your boat.  In really choppy water the bags can act as shock absorbers and help keep the boat from bouncing too much.
    Tight lines 
    #11
    haemofish
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    RE: Help with Trolling Setup 2007/06/02 15:10:22 (permalink)
    I am in the same spot as this guy.  I been fishing for the perch for a couple years but finally got a good 9.9 to troll with. I have 2 dipsy rods i just do not know the first thing to setting them up to troll for eyes.  If anyone could e-mail me some help i would really appreciate it.
    Thanks
    #12
    Storm Warning 2
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    RE: Help with Trolling Setup 2007/06/04 10:56:17 (permalink)
    Haemofish:

    Pick your poison for line:  braid or mono. 

    Buy a couple #1 dipsys, I would recommend purple, black, fire tiger, metallic blue, or watermelon. 

    Buy some fluorocarbon (I like 20# test Gamma) and some snaps and snap swivels around 30# test.

    Tie fluorocarbon leader in about 6 1/2' to 7 1/2' lengths to go from dipsy to bait.

    Buy Offshore precision trolling book or ask around some of the Great Lakes specific sites for someone to post or email you dive charts for them, remember, what line you choose has a major bearing on how your dipsy will work.  This book will give you the approximate dive curves to adjust your dipsys and line back to put in the strike zone.

    Hope you already have a selection of small spoons and regular spoons (stingers, dreamweavers, etc.) as well as some smaller plugs (rapalas, Dave's Nitro shiners, or storm Jr. Stix) and some worm harnesses (watermelon, purple & black steady producers)

    Watch your electronics, figure out where the fish are and adjust your dipsys accordingly.  If you have questions, feel free to email me it is in my profile.


    post edited by Storm Warning 2 - 2007/06/04 10:58:12
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    Brad1
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    RE: Help with Trolling Setup 2007/06/04 12:26:18 (permalink)
    My Yamaha F225 4 stroke trolls beautifully and without the need for any assistance in slowing it down. I do drop the trim tabs and under trim the motor. But at 600 rpm, I can troll 2mph (maybe less) without using a drift sock. I think the prop has alot to do with it. I'm don't know what my prop numbers are off the top of my head, but it's the OEM SS prop that was on the motor when I bought the boat.
     
    Last year, I switched to from mono to braided line for my dipsy lines. Big improvement. Now, everything trips the dipsys.
     
    For rod holders, I went with Bert's custom tackle tracks and rod holders. Bert's products seem like real quality stuff to me. I also liked Bert's tracks because when not in use, they have a step insert (made of marine starboard) that looks real nice. I have Tite-lok on my smaller boat, but I like the Bert's better because the Tite-lok require a hex wrench for adjustment / removal.
     
    I've done much better off dipsys the last couple years than I have off downriggers. I don't know why though. If your just starting out, maybe you could consider just running several dipsys before investing in downriggers.
     
     
    #14
    Crack
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    RE: Help with Trolling Setup 2007/06/05 04:38:20 (permalink)
    You don't want to mess with your prop too much. If you do it is a good idea to go to a Marina that deals with you specific outboard. If you get the wrong pitch on your prop you will either lose a lot of your top end or you will over rev your motor and normally that leads to bad things. Also most outboards you need to keep running at or around 2000 to 2500 for them to charge your batteries. If you are out trolling all day running at 600 rpm hopefully your battery is new or you have a spare. If I am remembering correct the higher your pitch the more top end(speed) you will get the lower the pitch the better out of the hole. If you are going to change props if you buy one with progressive pitch it will adapt better to different situations.
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    Brad1
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    RE: Help with Trolling Setup 2007/06/05 06:20:59 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Crack

    You don't want to mess with your prop too much. If you do it is a good idea to go to a Marina that deals with you specific outboard. If you get the wrong pitch on your prop you will either lose a lot of your top end or you will over rev your motor and normally that leads to bad things. Also most outboards you need to keep running at or around 2000 to 2500 for them to charge your batteries. If you are out trolling all day running at 600 rpm hopefully your battery is new or you have a spare. If I am remembering correct the higher your pitch the more top end(speed) you will get the lower the pitch the better out of the hole. If you are going to change props if you buy one with progressive pitch it will adapt better to different situations.

     
    Like crack pointed out, you can't just run any prop you choose. There are restrictions on what works, and what doesn't. To give you an example, my Brother bought a 2002 Scout 185 sportfish with a Yamaha F115 on the back. He didn't know whether or not the prop on it was original. But he did experience the infamous F115 making oil problem. Turns out the cause was, the wrong pitch prop not allowing the motor to reach the manufactorer rpm at WOT, and the fuel sensor was supplying fuel as the engine was at WOT, but the motor was not able to use it all since it was turning at too low an rpm at WOT. So the extra fuel makes it's way into the crankcase.
     
    The prop I'm running on my F225 does keep the WOT rpm within the manufactorers specified range. It was the prop that came on the boat / motor when I bought it new. The boat manufactorer does alot of testing to determine the correct prop for that boat, and they factory install the motors (with the props). So in my case (with the F225), I have not had to change the prop. Just so happens that it also allows extremely slow trolling. As for the alternator output, the modern outboards have come along way in that aspect. I've been trolling all day long like this and have yet to have a problem with this motor. Same could be said for the MerCruiser in the boat I had before my F225. Same could be said for the Johnson 90hp I had before that. I've never had with the battery draining when trolling all day. I do run a dual battery setup. I always recommend that.  
    #16
    STEELJUNKIE420
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    RE: Help with Trolling Setup 2007/06/05 08:33:27 (permalink)
    Do not forget about jets, when me and my friends just started we ran two jets of various sizes, straight out the back and two dipsey's out the sides and pulled many limits with that set. I think the jets come in four sizes 10, 20, 30 ,40 that # means (according to the package) if you let out 100 feet of line you dive to the # on the jet but with braid i think that is alittle off. You are getting the right info, you now just have to go out and expriment on your own boat, because there are too many variables for the diving #'s to generalize. The amish outfitter bags are the best trolling bags we ever used, we use 2 20 inchers one on each side and we will pull one or add as needed while trolling. I have a pic of the set we used to use, just click the link below.
    http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=1004&ppuser=1159&sl=b
    #17
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