""if they chose"" and PAID for them !!!

For $20.70 folks in Pa can hunt for an entire year and can hunt at least 10 species of game and birds with that one license...

how many pheasants will I get to shoot for $20.70 without paying a guide or a tip for his/her services

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

8 birds in 11 hours of hunting.. that's darn good IMO... The fields the PGC stock about a mile away as the crow flies have had shots being fired almost every day... the neighbor has 5 birds visiting his yard almost everyday right with the songbirds and jays and I have spotted them on the way to work on 4 different occasions this week..

The main theme of my last post was that upland birds IMHO are not a way to get youth involved anyhow... I know the populations is terrible except for those few stocked birds... and I meant that either your hunt or the PF hunt shows nothing on what real life pheasant hunting is like.. thus not a good starting species.. I guess some missed that point of my post..

but if everyone in Pa could average 8 birds in 11 hours the woods would be crawling with bird hunters...I know you have "champion dogs" you have told us that 100 times... but my neighbor used his family pet (it is a bird dog though) and he and his daughter each limited out.. so it's a matter of right time right place too..... and weather has been terrible around here for any species hunting the past 2 weeks .. rain..rain..rain...

Doc,

Eight birds in 11 hours is terrible.  Keep in mind that on the first hunt there were four hunters, the second hunt there were three hunters, and the third hunt there were two hunters.  In total we saw eight birds in 34 total hunter hours or one for every 4.25 hours someone hunted.  I actually only saw one less deer while pheasant hunting those days than I did pheasants.  And, as you can't seem to understand, this was behind my dogs, so it is very unlikely that "everyone in PA could average 8 birds in 11 hours."  And except for Thursday, which had intermittant light rain, the weather was perfect.

There is some element of being in the right place at the right time -- sure, people win the lottery everyday, but they don't do it consistently.  But one ups their odds of being in the right place at the right time when one has dogs and the better the dogs are, the better the odds.  It is kind of like one can pound in a nail with a rock (no dogs), but has a better chance with a decent hammer (okay dogs), and is almost guaranteered with a quality nail gun (good dogs).

But, as usual, in your rage to provide a counterpoint, you missed what the post was about.  You stated that there were plenty of birds left after the youth hunt and my point is, no there is not.  My post, again, was an honest one, which was an accurate depiction of public land hunting on a non-youth hunt, first morning, or stocking day.  It isn't easy.  Can birds be gotten, sure.  Can they be gotten with any regularity, no so sure.

Friday, I hit the same area as Monday and it must have been a stocking day.  I closed the vehicle door at 1 PM and the second bird was retrieved at 1:14 PM.  Enroute to that limit, the first bird ran out from under the point and flushed out of range; the second point produced a nice brace of roosters, but I scored a field goal by shooting between both birds -- twice (see even adults miss -- it's really not that big of a shame -- unless it is a deer at 10 yards ); the fourth bird flew over a swamp area and the chances of recovering a bird there were slim to none, so I passed on the shot; bird number five died; as did bird number six; and bird number seven was pointed (me with an empty gun because I was limited) by the younger dog, while the older one honored his point with the rooster he was retrieving still in his mouth.  That was seven birds in 14 minutes.

 

 

On the way home, I called a friend of mine and told him the PGC must have stocked and asked if he wanted to hit a local SGL.  I dropped my birds and gun at home and picked him up.  We arrived and had a plan to hike into an area that typically holds birds.  We never made it there.  At the begining of the first field the dogs locked on point and my friend dropped the bird with the first shot. 
 

 
 
 
Following the retrieve we carried on for less than 100 yards and the dogs locked again.  The first shot missed (see even adults miss) somehow, but the second brought the bird to hand. 
 

 
 
A limit was in the bag eight minutes after we started.  Of interesting note, I hadn't noticed that while the young dog went for the retrieve, the older dog never moved.  When the birds was in my friend's vest we made that discovery and flushed a third bird harmlessly into the sky.  Between the two hunts that day, there were 10 birds in under 25 minutes.  We skirted the other hunters in the area in order to not disturb them and in the 30 minutes it took use to take the round about way back to the vehicle, the dogs pointed 11 more birds.  That would be a total of 21 birds produced in under an hour.  Since only one of us was actually hunting at a time, that is one bird about every three minutes on a stocking day as compared to one bird every 4.25 hours chasing after all those left over birds.


This would more or less be more akin to what the youth hunt would experience and not regular public land hunting.  And that was my whole point -- even with that kind of activity on game, that availablity of game (#1 reason people quit), that kind of access (# 2 reason people quit), a circus like atmosphere -- trap, archery, lunch, door prizes -- if an honest assessment of the youth hunt as a recruiting tool is made, it isn't much of one.  And that is unfortunate.  I wish it weren't so.  But I won't sugar coat it like someone who has a very vested interest in it being a success will.

Those five birds at your neighbors can be likened to the deer in the city areas -- they are there, but don't do the majority of hunters any good.  They might as well not be there from a hunting perspective.

As for your contention that upland hunting is not a way to get youth involved, keep in mind that the youth hunt was for kids age 12 - 16, so for most, it wasn't thier first rodeo -- not a starting point -- they have hunted before.  And I ask that if they aren't interested in hunting while walking and being warm, seeing 7 - 10 shootable pieces of game in less than an hour, being able to talk out loud, having the advantage of good dogs, not getting started until 9 AM, being out in great weather (sunny and mid-50's), not having to compete with the adults, getting to do some neat things before and after their hunt, getting fed, and getting a door prize just for showing up; just how interested will they be in being up and out pre-dawn, dealing with what could be very bad weather, not being able to talk out loud for hours on end, sitting or standing for long periods of time, more than likely not seeing 7 - 10 shootable pieces of game in a season (maybe more), and no food, games or door prizes while deer hunting?

On another point, from another post, yes, the youth hunt I attended had sponsors -- they have to or they wouldn't exist.  The difference is that those that sponsored that event gave so willingly of their time, products, and money to make it happen; while the PGC hunt, while also having sponsors to add to the hunt (why do we need to have all the door prizes, games, food and such -- isn't the hunt enough to get the kids interested -- apparently not) that gave of their time, products, and money freely, the biggest expense (perhaps except for the guns that were given away) for these hunts is the birds and those came from the PGC which were paid for by every hunters' license dollars, whether they wanted to or not.  That's a big difference.  But I still applaud their efforts.  Just don't put down ours.  And do tell the truth.

ORIGINAL: Outdoor Adventures

WOW you guys still complaining and btching ? RSB I thought you put a lot of hours in the field but yet you still manage to post here and on other sites. Don't you have a family life or is it that you are that committed?

 
I do put a lot of time in the field. I started at 7:00 this morning and got home a little after 9:00 this evening. I finished my dinner at about 9:30. Then since I don’t watch television, even though my wife does, I usually sit down in from of my computer and check out a few hunting sites, including this one. I also get interrupted from time to time to answer the phone. So far this evening I had two calls, one of which was the State Police calling about an elk hit on the road. It will have to wait until tomorrow though. I spent my day hiking up and down mountains in the elk range to check and confirm kills during the first day of the elk season so I have had enough for one day unless it is a major incident that needs immediate attention then would go back out yet again tonight.
 
R.S. Bodenhorn

ORIGINAL: Outdoor Adventures

ORIGINAL: RSB

ORIGINAL: Outdoor Adventures

WOW you guys still complaining and btching ? RSB I thought you put a lot of hours in the field but yet you still manage to post here and on other sites. Don't you have a family life or is it that you are that committed?

I do put a lot of time in the field. I started at 7:00 this morning and got home a little after 9:00 this evening. I finished my dinner at about 9:30. Then since I don’t watch television, even though my wife does, I usually sit down in from of my computer and check out a few hunting sites, including this one. I also get interrupted from time to time to answer the phone. So far this evening I had two calls, one of which was the State Police calling about an elk hit on the road. It will have to wait until tomorrow though. I spent my day hiking up and down mountains in the elk range to check and confirm kills during the first day of the elk season so I have had enough for one day unless it is a major incident that needs immediate attention then would go back out yet again tonight.
 
R.S. Bodenhorn

I would think what little time you have left after your job you would spend with your family. How old are your kid/s ? You stated before that you are responsible for a large area, Where are all the deputies or do you do it all yourself ?

My kids are all grown and long gone from the house so it is just the wife and I. My wife watches the TV, I sit at the computer and we communicate back and forth about various topics throughout the evening.
 
I don’t have any active deputies right now. I hope to have one back in service by the middle of this month. It is so difficult for deputies to find the time for all the mandatory training required anymore it is hard to keep deputies that can meet all the requirements. There is a deputy in McKean County that works with me sometimes and a couple of the neighboring WCOs and I team up from time to time on major investigations and night patrols. Most of the time during the day though I will be working alone.
 
R.S. Bodenhorn

No wonder you only covered 28 acres.
As we all know the birds are stacked at 1 bird to 14 acres...


Do some more walking next time...Gheeez..

Dardys, you will be down to your original weight if you can hunt on Sundays also. See, there is always a plus side to the small amount of available game..WF

I really appreciate you guys being concerned with my health.  Somebody needs to be.

You're right, I am changing my mind on the Sunday hunting thing -- it could be the death of me.

Of course, I will get a nice long rest here with deer season coming up -- just hours upon hours of sitting quietly, staring off into the woods.

The mutts are getting in prime shape, though.  They are in decent shape all year long, I run them about every other day during the off season, but running the hay fields across the street is not the same as hunting running.   An aquaintance of mine that hunts SD a lot was part of a study a few years back.  They put pedometers on the hunters and the dogs.  For every mile the hunters walked, the dogs ran 6 -- 8 miles.  I can't rightly tell you how much ground we cover in a hunt, particularly if we aren't finding birds, but if the average walking speed of a person is 4 mph, even cutting that in half means that we cover miles and miles (and a lot more than 14 acres -- actually on low bird days, I would welcome one bird every 14 acres -- LOL -- heck, I would go for 1 every 100), while the pointers cover way more.