Hunting 7 days
Dr. Trout
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RE: Hunting 7 days
2011/06/08 07:11:00
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Here are some interesting notes comparing these three birds and you can see why they are different enough that they would require different managing as to habitat... I high-lighted some of the main points.. I can remember when I started hunting phesasnts were natural to all most any farm in Allegheny and Butler counties... not put and take like today's pheasant hunting is ... IMHO the #1 difference is pheasanst are not a woodland or forest type bird.. they need grasses and "fields" and brush for cover.. i.e. farm lands and that is getting harder and harder to find.. 1. Ring-necked Pheasant Although pheasants are not native to the U.S., they quickly became a popular game bird after they were introduced early this century. Ohio’s ring-necked pheasant population peaked in the late 1930’s and early 1940’s at nearly 5 million birds. However, their populations declined to all-time lows in the mid 1980’s. Some positive gains have been made from the USDA’s Conservation Reserve Program or CRP, which was created by the 1985 Farm Bill. Although a few pheasants may have been seen in wooded habitats, they are generally concentrated in the level terrain and fertile soils in the glaciated portions of the state. In many central Ohio counties the percentage of acres enrolled in CRP corresponds to the density of pheasants in the county. There are currently nearly 7,000 acres enrolled in CRP in Fairfield County. Ring-necked pheasants are most common in the largely agricultural northern half of the county. Pheasants have a home range of about one-half mile. They can be found in pairs or small groups during most of the year. During the winter months, pheasants are usually found in small groups divided by sex. Typical foods include waste grains from crop fields and seeds of foxtail, smartweed, ragweed, wild grape, sumac and poison ivy. They also consume buds and fruits from dogwood, wild plum, raspberry and blackberry. Young pheasants feed almost exclusively on insects for their first few weeks of life. Availability of food is not a limiting factor for Ohio pheasants. Lack of safe nesting cover has been identified as the primary reason for the decline in Ohio’s pheasant populations. Nesting cover can include brushy fencerows or undisturbed grassland in blocks of 5 to 20 acres or more. These cover types will be most successful if they are within one-half mile or so of winter cover. For this reason it is important to minimize disturbance to nesting cover (such as hay fields) from May through early July. If mowing must be done before these dates, mow from the center out, allowing escape routes to adjacent areas. Warm-season grasses are excellent nesting and winter cover sources. These taller grasses seldom lodge in high winds and require little maintenance after the first two years. These grasses are planted on many of the Wildlife Production Areas (WPA’s) managed by the Division of Wildlife for upland game. Several of these areas can be found near the Deer Creek Wildlife Area in Pickaway County. 2.Ruffed Grouse Ruffed grouse are a woodland bird species that are native to Ohio. Grouse thrive in a mixture of brushy cover and immature woodlots. These habitats occur most frequently in Fairfield County in Rush Creek and Berne Townships. Grouse populations in the Midwest are often subject to widely fluctuating cycles of abundance. Their abundance in Ohio has generally been declining since the early 1970’s due to aging woodland habitat. Good grouse habitat can be grouped into three general types: · Mixed species stands of hardwood, shrubs, saplings, and brush-vine tangles · Moist areas with dense clumps of shrubs · Young forest stands of mixed hardwoods Ruffed grouse have a home range of 20-40 acres in size. However, they will forage on a larger area if necessary. Grouse do well in harsh winter conditions, often roosting under the snow. In this way they differ from both pheasants and quail, both of which are heavily impacted by severe winters. Grouse are also more solitary birds and are seldom found in groups. Adult grouse are omnivores, feeding on insects and a variety of forbs, grasses and soft mast. Soft mast preferred by grouse generally includes greenbrier, wild grape, dogwood, sumac, poison ivy, cherry, hawthorn, and bittersweet. Grouse also feed frequently on the buds of young hardwood trees. Food types such as these are often found in open areas that have recently been timbered or cleared. Like pheasants, young grouse rely heavily on insects. Wherever feasible, small clear cuts of 1/2 to 3/4 of an acre encourage growth of vegetation used by grouse as food, such as greenbrier. Grouse also rely on the cover types that grow up in these areas as nesting cover. Leaving a 12-14 inch diameter log in cleared areas as a “drumming log†for males to use during spring courtship activities is also beneficial. Male grouse like to hop up a log of this size where they puff out their breast feathers and rapidly beat or drum their wings. This noise is used to attract females that may be in the area. 3.Wild Turkey The wild turkey is Ohio’s largest forest game bird, attaining weights up to 24 pounds. Although the wild turkey once inhabited every county in Ohio, they were nearly gone from the state by 1904 due to unregulated hunting and the loss of forest habitats. From 1956 through 1963 turkeys were reestablished in Ohio by releasing birds trapped in surrounding states. Wild turkeys are now found in 80 of Ohio’s 88 counties. They are most common in the wooded forest tracts in the southern and western areas of Fairfield County. The home range of an adult wild turkey is about 2 square miles, or from 400 to 1,000 acres daily. Spring densities for wild turkeys during the breeding season average about 2 birds per square mile. Turkeys are often the most visible during this period as toms seek out hens with their familiar gobble call. This mating activity often brings them to the edges of woodlots and pastures where their brown and black plumage and red heads make them visible from a distance. The primary food of wild turkeys is acorns, which make up half to two-thirds of the turkey’s diet. Other foods include beechnuts, and the fruits/buds from dogwood, black gum, wild grape, and greenbrier. Grasses and open clearings often provide a good source of insects that are important for the survival of young chicks. When seeking to attract wild turkeys, keep in mind that they are dependent on mature forests. Having some open areas will encourage growth of shrubs and grasses. Good turkey habitat should have a clearing of 1 or 2 acres in every 100 acres of wooded land. Water sources are also important; these may be springs, ponds, or creeks close to the food sources mentioned above.
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/06/08 07:14:52
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bingsbaits
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RE: Hunting 7 days
2011/06/08 07:21:18
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Grouse are pretty much gone here as well. Used to here them drumming all the time and was able to always kick up a few on the farm. Haven't seen or flushed a grouse on the farm in 10 years. Turkeys seem to be on the decline as well here... Pheasants very seldom make it through the winter up here, always been a put n take with the stocked birds. Doc thought we weren't allowed to compare with Ohio ? Different soils and all.. Seems that's where that report is from...
post edited by bingsbaits - 2011/06/08 07:24:01
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fishin coyote
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RE: Hunting 7 days
2011/06/08 08:27:31
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Number 1 reason for lack of wild chickens. HABITAT Look in 99% of all corn fields. What is missing? WEEDS Almost all farming is done nowadays with clean practices. Farmers spend more money on Round-Up then they do in seed. And if by chance you do find an area that has a small game population the land owner doesn't want you to hunt there cause it MAY scare away HIS #x#@@## Deer Bings your right the winters do them in up here in our chunk of the state Mike
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retired guy
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RE: Hunting 7 days
2011/06/08 09:15:32
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The 'family farm' is becoming extinct faster than most game species. Dairy farming works on very close margins and often becomes non profitable and therefore goes away. Especially when the sale of the land itself often represents a huge dollar figure when compared to the low profit available to continue the farm. It is the large mega farms of the West and in 3rd world Countries that now dominate the products we purchase at market. Efforts to maximize the potential of farms have led to methods and practices not friendly to our game species which were, after all, a by product of someone trying to make a difficult life off of the land. The old hedgerows have been removed to acess more acreage for productivity and reduce shaded areas. In the 'old days' one could walk a harvested corn field and observe corn left on the ground in the course of harvest. Not now, the new methods do not allow for wasted crops as that equates wasted dollars in a narrow profit business. These methods have evolved on behalf of good farming practices and even then many have failed to be able to compete. As a kid our main social activity was based at the local Grange which was dominated by farming families. Now if you can even find a Grange the number of Farmers there is generally small compared to the actual membership. Its a changing world for we Sportsmen and is really not anyones fault.
post edited by retired guy - 2011/06/08 09:23:24
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DarDys
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RE: Hunting 7 days
2011/06/08 10:15:04
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ORIGINAL: eyesandgillz Only pheasants I see these days are the squished ones on and along Rte. 51 and Mars Hill Road that are too dumb to fly away from cars. Have seen at least 1/2 a dozen live ones along those same two roads but I am sure they didn't last long. No game lands around these areas so these birds were coming from private sportsman club stockings. We actually had 2 pheasants in our backyard last fall and our housing plan is at least 5 miles as the crow flies from the nearest club that stocks pheasants. Anyways, I am all for a pheasant stamp (with money going strictly to pheasant stocking and the general license money getting returned back to the general fund) and Sunday hunting for all species. What do you expect, they are birdbrains. Sorry, that was way too easy. It's a good thing that those super intellectual deer with brains 50X - 75X bigger than pheasants never wonder out on the road and get hit by vehicles. That would be really bad. Seriously, if you are seeing private club stockings, they may well be cage reared birds that may have a flight instinct, but no practice at it, so they don't fly very well at all because they never had to. Think of it as tossing someone that never swam into some deep water. They have the ability to float and the instinct to swim, but they never did and they don't instantly turn into Mark Spitz. Flight pen raised birds that have no or little human contact due to automatic watering and feeding establish a flight instinct and get just a wild as those that were reared in the wild. keep in mind that most harvested wild birds are that year's hatch, so they are basically 9 months old. Unless they are hunted, they have their basic instincts, but not a whole lot learned intelligence. At one of the clubs that I guide there is a great survival rate on birds -- not all get found by the dogs, not all get shot, and 20% more than the number required for the hunt are stocked (just like the big so called "wild" bird lodges do in South Dakota -- that's right for every 10 birds shot in SD 7 or more are stocked, not wild, sorry to burst everyone's bubble -- they just have better marketing). Try to get close to these birds. I laugh when we see a flock of them milling around when driving out the parking area. The clients typically point to them and say how easy this is going to be. I then point out that they should notice that the birds have been staying a constant 80 to 100 yards ahead of us the whole time -- well out of range. Another reason for birds to get squashed in the spring is that the roosters get very territorial. I would not have believed it was so strong, but this spring I had roosters run toward and challenge my vehcile. We had one run toward a bird stocker until it got so close that he kicked it about 10 yards. It got up, dusted itself off, and came back for more. these get truck pressed quite often.
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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SilverKype
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RE: Hunting 7 days
2011/06/08 10:37:35
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ORIGINAL: fishin coyote And if by chance you do find an area that has a small game population the land owner doesn't want you to hunt there cause it MAY scare away HIS #x#@@## Deer I see this comment every now and then. It's usually about keeping deer unpressured and involves salty small game hunters. Why the salt ? Is it not the owners property ? Do you not think the owner should be able to do what he pleases ?
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DarDys
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RE: Hunting 7 days
2011/06/08 11:07:42
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I'll try to address a few posts in one. OA, When I was asking about the birds not flying, I might not have been as clear as I should have. Back when phesants were cage raised, they didn't develop their flight instinct because of limited space. See the post above. This led to a lot of those birds that sat in cage, were fed by humans in a cage, and were handled by humans all the time to be relatively tame, just like chickens, and they would often just sit and not fly or run. That is why I asked when was the time frame you were talking about -- it may well have been during the cage raised bird era. However, if you were talkng about the last 10 years or so, when birds are being flight pen raised, that isn't the case. They live in weeded habitat, have enough room to fly, have no human contact, and are no different that "wild" birds that live for the 9 months from the time they are born until the season opens in that same field, with the exception of predators. If by not flying you meant that the birds would rather run than fly, well, that is a wild instinct. Pheasant only fly when they have no other choice. One of the first instructions I give clients, right after shoot nothing on the ground because only people and dogs are on the ground and shootable things are eye high in the air to be safe, is the idea is to harvest birds, not pose for the cover of a magazine. What I mean by that is walking in from straight behind a pointing dog to flush a bird. It makes for a great photo, but isn't a great idea. One of the reasons it is not a great idea is that the bird senses danger in the dog and now there is danger in the form of the hunter. Since that danger is approaching from the same direction as the dog danger, the logical thing for the pheasant to do is seek an escape route by running away -- straight away. It has no reason to fly because it can outrun the danger. Now, if the dog is at one angle and the hunter approaches from another, that reduces the pheasant's options for running and may fluster it enough to fly, especially if there is an open edge involved as another barrier to escape. The ideal situation, and I will look to see where I have some photos, is to have a brace of dogs, pointing from different angles (a really, really good brace of dogs works in such a manner as this happens a lot, or they have the confidence in each other for one to hold point while the other circles and blocks) and have the hunter approach from a third direction forming a triangle. The bird has no choice but to fly. Doc, I agree with FFF about the different types of pheasants and that with the conditions here in PA, there will never be a significant wild pheasant population. As I wrote above about South Dakota, they do have wild pheasants, but for the most part, the majority of those birds were stocked. Lodges, which we term here as preserves, are required to stock a certain number of birds over the number needed for the hunt. By doing so those birds spread to neighboring properties and become "wild" birds. Something that I don't think you see, however, is that FFF is no different that QDMA. They are a for-profit entity that is capitalizing on poor hunting by telling you how poor the hunting is, how much better it could be if you bought their program, and then selling you their program. I have no problem with that business or that approach, but be careful when citing as a source a company, and that is what they are, that says how bad things are and how for a fee they can fix it. They just might tend to be a little biased. Others, Habitat is definately an issue as has been pointed out by a lot of posters. It's just not what it once was and it never will be. I have the opportunity to run dogs on several properties and each has a different habitat management system. One wants cover to stock birds in and have clients hunt them. The cover is just that cover. It has little food value and is basically just a place for birds to hide while being hunted. Another uses supplemental plantings in addition to what would have been termed back in the day as an "overgrown farm." While there are some food sources there, there aren't enough to sustain a population of birds and they tend to scatter to other properties in search of food. A third one plants cover grasses, nesting areas, roosting areas, and food areas. (Gee, can oyu tell which one the owner interned in SD at a major lodge.) That is quite expensive to do, but the number of birds that not only survive but thrive on the property is amazing. There is another preserve a mile or more down the road. That preserve clips the upper beak in order to keep the birds form pecking each other to death in the flight pens (that is a "wild" bird activity). About 30% of the birds havested at the well planted preserve are clipped beak birds that were drawn there for the food plots from the other preserve. In additon to there being more suitable habitat, there were also approximately 1,000,000 birds stocked in PA in addition to wild bird populations in the southern parts of the state. From the mid 70's to the early 80's PA was one of the top five states for pheasant harvests in the country, right up there with SD, Nebraska, and Iowa. Now, with few wild birds left, and less than 100,000 PGC stocked birds, they are far less abundant. Sheer numbers before made them available even in places of poor habitat because they had to be stocked somewhere. Someone joked about PR, pheasant reduction, and while that is not what happened, at least in the same manner, the pheasant population in PA was essentailly reduced by 90% or more. It kind of makes HR seem pale in comparison. As for predators, there are no higher concentrations of predators than at the dinner table of a preserve. Owls, hawks, yotes, feral cats, etc. see a preserve as a giant supermarket. I was amazed, however, at how few adult, and that is the key word, adult, pheasants that were taken by these predators, particularly hawks. I have hunted deer there out of a blind and watched many, many pheasants feeding in the open with a hawk perched nearby and it never tried to get any of them. I asked the owner why and he said it isn't worth the energy to try to catch one because more often than not, if the bird has been out for any length of time, the hawk will fail. However, they will clean up the wounded or injured birds rather quickly. This is the reason for the high predator mortality of PGC stocked birds the first night they are out and why that percentage drops off over time. And spring chicks basically don't have a chance. I suspect that is what is happening to the grouse population, I won't even bother hunting them any more, and if I recall one of the reasons for the banded hen turkey studies is to see why that population is dropping. Pheasant hunting in PA, for all of the various reasons, has gone the way of trout fishing. There are some wild ones about, but for the most part, what is available are stocked birds and stocked trout. It is the way it is and unless you want to buy a whole bunch of land and follow FFF's recommendations or buy a stream, do the improvements, stock it and post it, that is the way it is going to be going forward.
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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DarDys
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RE: Hunting 7 days
2011/06/08 14:06:28
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ORIGINAL: SilverKype ORIGINAL: fishin coyote And if by chance you do find an area that has a small game population the land owner doesn't want you to hunt there cause it MAY scare away HIS #x#@@## Deer I see this comment every now and then. It's usually about keeping deer unpressured and involves salty small game hunters. Why the salt ? Is it not the owners property ? Do you not think the owner should be able to do what he pleases ? I have made that comment, but not in that context. I mentioned that a group of archery hunters had leased and posted a section of ground near where I live that used ot contain a viable, huntable wild pheasant population and due to the wonderful post AR/HR world in which every single deer becomes so important that they, through the prizm of sarcity mentailty, would not let anyone hunt small game there, even after an offer to buy in and not hunt deer at all, because of the possibility of spooking even one deer from the property. My commnets had nothing to do with them hunting unpressured deer or it being their ground to hunt on. It had to do with the simple fact that before HR, it didn't matter if a single deer might be spooked off a piece of property, there were plenty more if that happened, but now it does matter. It is too bad that it has to be that way. As for it being their leased ground, so be it. I respect that. If I had known it was available I more than likely would have leased it for bird hunting myself. I probably even would have let them hunt deer on it -- without buying in.
post edited by DarDys - 2011/06/08 14:40:37
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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fishin coyote
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RE: Hunting 7 days
2011/06/08 14:32:20
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Kype, No Salt here. Didn't mean it to come across as such. Was just trying to say that the explosion in the deer business over the last 20 yrs. has actually hurt hunters as a whole. Owners own the property and can do as they feel fit. I actually hunt a couple of places were there is no small game hunting allowed until the second season. Mike
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RE: Hunting 7 days
2011/06/08 15:14:44
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ORIGINAL: fishin coyote Number 1 reason for lack of wild chickens. HABITAT Look in 99% of all corn fields. What is missing? WEEDS Almost all farming is done nowadays with clean practices. Farmers spend more money on Round-Up then they do in seed. And if by chance you do find an area that has a small game population the land owner doesn't want you to hunt there cause it MAY scare away HIS #x#@@## Deer Bings your right the winters do them in up here in our chunk of the state Mike I find it to be the complete opposite in many areas I visit. Alot of large farms has gone to weeds. As far as the corn fields up north, most farmers can't aford to be weed free. Not that your wrong but this is what I see.
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RE: Hunting 7 days
2011/06/23 15:44:11
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