Frustrated

Try a tuck cast. It will dramatically help your flies get down more quickly.

Weighted/beaded flies will also help. Most buggers you can buy at the stores are not weighted; I prefer to tie them with both a bead and lead. Also, if the buggers are tied with too much marabou and hackle they will be a chore to sink.

This explains the tuck cast better than I ever could:

Here is the tuck cast in a nutshell the way I understood it and learned it. Position your thumb on the top of the rod. When executing the forward cast, you're thumb and knuckles must end up pointing toward your target. Keep your wrist straight in line with the thumb and bring the cast directly overhead. On the back cast, allow the line to straighten out and then begin your forward cast. The forward cast is a very short but very quick and powerful stroke that stops abruptly at the 10:30 position. This abrupt stop causes the weighted fly to bend under the line and make a powerful, vertical entry into the water. If you do it right, your fly will hit the water first and drive deep before the line lands on the water and creates drag.

Taken from -- http://www.hooked-on-flies.com/fly_fishing_with_nymphs.htm

Throw a upstream mend accordingly to get your fly down to where you want it to be.  Don't be afraid to add more weight, my biggest problem when learning to fly fish...as long as your not constantly snagging bottom or fish, keep adding weight until you get to where you want.  Also try running straight 6lb or 8lb fluro for your leader and then run smaller tippet off that when need be.  When nymphing and roll casting it really doesnt hurt your cast and it will get down a lot faster than a leader...

Yeah, I was mending up; throwing slack line, everything I could think of to get that fly to run where I wanted to.

As far as the line getting sucked under, is that from the line being too far ahead of the fly? I noticed it happened most often when the line would come off of the fast water and the water seemed to "whirlpool."

LW, you're right about the weight thing. Four split shot later and I couldn't help think, "That's why my float is sinking."

GRRRR!!!

ORIGINAL: mohawksyd

Yeah, I was mending up; throwing slack line, everything I could think of to get that fly to run where I wanted to.

As far as the line getting sucked under, is that from the line being too far ahead of the fly? I noticed it happened most often when the line would come off of the fast water and the water seemed to "whirlpool."

LW, you're right about the weight thing. Four split shot later and I couldn't help think, "That's why my float is sinking."

GRRRR!!!

It takes time, we could sit here and suggest every different technique imaginable but its all about getting a feel for what works for YOU.  It might result in some fishless days experimenting but take what people have suggested and try it, see what you like and what produces fish for you...

mohawksyd,

I noticed you mentioned putting the indicator 1 - 1.5x the depth of the water. 1x the depth of the water will never cut it when you're nymphing, since the leader between your indicator and flies will always be at an angle. The reason is that the water on the surface is often travelling faster than the water on the bottom of the creek, so your indicator will nearly always be downstream from your flies and shot. Try adding more distance between your flies and the indicator. I usually go anywhere between 1.5 - 2.5x the depth of the water i'm fishing.

I noticed you called the indicator a "float". Don't think of it as a float. When I picture a float, I picture those things the pinners and spinning rod guys use at the manchester hole to float their bait off the bottom. Indicators aren't meant to work that way. If you're using them like a bobber, you're doing it wrong. Think of them as an indicator of a couple things. The most important being your drift. If the indicator is swinging in the current, or going faster downstream than the bubbles on the surface, you need to mend (i'll get to mending later). If you indicator is going faster than the current, it will pull your flies off the bottom, and out of the fishes strike zone.

The second thing an indicator will indicate is if you're having a strike. If the indicator stops, gets pulled under, or to the side, or ticks... set the hook. Don't ever assume it's a rock. The biggest mistake the clients I guide make when nymphing is assuming the indicator stopped because the fly is on a rock. The only way to know which it is, is to set the hook and assume it's a fish.

Now for shot... In most cases, if you're not drifting along the bottom, you're not getting the flies to the fish. You'll want to add enough shot to keep your flies on the bottom throughout most of your drift. The only way to know if you are getting to the bottom is if you're getting stuck occassionally. Once you are getting to the bottom, pay close attention to when you're getting stuck. If it's not til the end of you're drift, maybe add a little shot. If it's happening early in the drift, take a little off. I typically place my shot above my nymphs about 12-14", and space them about a thumb's width apart from each other. Keep in mind that every spot you're going to fish is different, and you should be constantly adjusting the amount of shot you're using.

Now for mending... I didn't feel like typing any more, so I'll just post this article for you to read. Hope it helps.
http://www.midcurrent.com/articles/techniques/monahan_mending.aspx

ORIGINAL: thedrake

The second thing an indicator will indicate is if you're having a strike. If the indicator stops, gets pulled under, or to the side, or ticks... set the hook. Don't ever assume it's a rock. The biggest mistake the clients I guide make when nymphing is assuming the indicator stopped because the fly is on a rock. The only way to know which it is, is to set the hook and assume it's a fish.

Exactly why I do not use indicators, you lose the feel and touch of feeling the take and knowing it's a fish. Too many fly guy's and beginners just watch the strike indicator, they are not feeling the take thru the line. Yes it works, but IMO it takes something away from the whole fly fishing feeling and connection of you and the fish thru the line.

Tight Lines,

OldSalt

Yes, drop like a rock and stay there, very little action compared to other wets.

Mohawk: I don't know how long you've been fly fishing, so if you've been at it for a while, and are good at mending just ignore this. The problem with mending is that if your mend is just a little bit too large it pulls your fly up through the water column, too small and it doesn't affect the drift. Your mend really needs to be spot on. Throw in some wind, braided currents, and mending even a 20 foot cast effectively can be a pain. It might be that you just need some more practice at throwing the type of quick mends needed in slightly faster water.

The tuck cast is great advice, and so is the sink tip. I like the RIO 30ft sections of T11 you can buy.  Make a 15, a 10 and a 5 (or any other combination, as long as you have some short, mid, and long) and you'll be covered. 10ft of T11 with a SHORT (2 and a half or 3 foot) leader will get a streamer down great in the erie tribs.
 

ORIGINAL: jfdIII
Old Salt, not to start a ****ing match at all, I'm just a fan of tungsten.

 
No prob.... that's what these forums are for, thy opinion.
 
 
OldSalt

ORIGINAL: OldSalt

ORIGINAL: thedrake

The second thing an indicator will indicate is if you're having a strike. If the indicator stops, gets pulled under, or to the side, or ticks... set the hook. Don't ever assume it's a rock. The biggest mistake the clients I guide make when nymphing is assuming the indicator stopped because the fly is on a rock. The only way to know which it is, is to set the hook and assume it's a fish.

Exactly why I do not use indicators, you lose the feel and touch of feeling the take and knowing it's a fish. Too many fly guy's and beginners just watch the strike indicator, they are not feeling the take thru the line. Yes it works, but IMO it takes something away from the whole fly fishing feeling and connection of you and the fish thru the line.

Tight Lines,

OldSalt

 
You're right Old Salt.  I kept telling the Drake on Friday if he would only take that darn indicator off he would have hooked far more that the 40+ steelhead that he did.  But he never listens to me.

ORIGINAL: flyfishindave

I wonder why he never listens

 
He's young.  He'll adjust -- LOL.