how many steelies really make it?

That would make a cool tagging study.  Need to get the local club behind it.  Lots of data to be collected.

I'VE HEARD THAT 90% LIVE TO SPAWN TWICE, MANY 3 TIMES, SOME 4 TIMES                            GLEN

Most 10lb fish are not 2-time spawners- rather, they are fish that took an extra year in the lake before returnng to spawn. Very few fish return second time, due to the rigors of spawning, negotiating the shallow streambeds, anchor ice in the winter, etc... not to mention predation from anglers. You can tell a repeat spawner in the beginning of the season- they will look chrome, but in a different way; oftentimes thay are silver but with scarring, whitish bellies, rough anal and ventral fins- in essence, they will look like they've been through the gauntlet already, despite being chrome and/or early in the season.
 
 

For sure I would think almost all jacks if not harvested would make it back next year and any older fish that aren't harvested , beat up too bad, or too oLd duud, would make additional fall spawning runs. I don't think that they all just go back in the lake and die...unless as stated before the are old or just to banged up.

Fin Clipping is not real effective.  Floy tags would probably come out, would have to use cheek chips, they work well but the scanners are expensive, at least they were a few years back.

Another question would be how many of the stocked smolts make it. I was on the main lake Sunday and there are dead smolts floating everywhere.....
 

I'd guess it's safe to say the earlier a fish comes in and the later it stays, the less chance it has for survival.   This is likely why you see more 4-5 year old fish in Ohio.  They are spring runners.  If a PA fish comes in  ..  in March and stays low, real good chance it'll expend little energy, and return the next year.  Look at the fish that won the tourney there a few years ago, look WHERE and WHEN it was caught.   Just a thought..
 
How many fish make it?
 
Who knows. 
 
I guess you could keep a total count of fish caught then spilt it by jacks, 3 year olds, and older.  That'd give you a percent of which return premature, mature, and older.  It'd have to be done by someone who fishes ALL year, and doesn't miss a run.
 
I'd guess the percent of 3 year old fish is really high, and the older ones is really low.  I don't catch very many 8-10 pound fish in Erie.  When I fished the tribs 30-40 hours a week all season long, I didn't catch very many.

What a waste of money then spoonie...
 
Pennsylvania Trout Commission at its finest...They cant even do that right!

Bagger,
 
How is it a waste of money, and what are they doing "wrong"?
 
The Steelhead program GENERATES revenues, and they stock them in the only streams AVAILABLE to them.
 
Thousands of anglers, get months of quality fishing, and enjoyment every season. I don't know how you can call that a "waste of money".

Waste of money? It might be the best money they spend, 1.2 million fish with 56 miles of shoreline? That is incredible, we should be thankful we have such a program. It generates major money into the Erie economy. People travel for hours away just to fish here. Not everyone but some local people just dont realize what they have access to,and I am a local erie resident. Just because they arent a walleye people act as tho there a trash fish. Some people actually enjoy eating them. Steelhead is by far and away our best sportfish, go look for them in the middle of summer and see how you well you do. Walleye are much easier to target. Many benefits the steelhead do for erie as a community

My two cents, I think this is the best thing the Pa fish comission does. "Steel Head Alley" was created by PA Fish commission and from living in the northwest it is better than the runs in the NW USA It is a fishery enjoyed by many with plenty of opportunity to go around for months. I truly enjoy it and can't think of a complaint. Yes it crowded in Oct. but everything that is outstanding in the world of fishing is crowded no matter where you are.

Oh by the way they are harder to catch in pa...the best bait scent I used out west was WD40...Have not tried in Erie since the fish are not a true purebred searun fish from all the reading that I did you are more or less fishing for large rainbow trout. Which makes sense if you read the excellent books from John Nagy.

I saw a few smolts as well, mostly smelt, but a few smolts.  Oh yea and one big **** steelhead cruisin the channel at walnut, with his mouth wide open scrapin crap off the surface as I was going out. He was well over 25-26 inches.

Water temps and stream habitat limit wild numbers. It does not matter how many run or how many eggs hatch. It is the warm temps of summer that limits wild numbers.
Like spoon said it is an artificial fishery it is what it is. There would be few steelhead in Lake Erie if not for the PA program and the amount of capacity of the PA hatchery system. The other border states don't come close or even have hatcherys dedicated to lake run rainbow trout.

ORIGINAL: spoonchucker

Carp.

Then why don't we see these "survivors" in the stream the following year(s)? They just aren't there in any numbers. You WON'T see them floating in the lake, dead Trout SINK. I have oten seen the broken ice at the mouths, strewn with hundreds of mangled up Steelhead. West coast streams, RIVERS see a good bit of survival, and repeat runs ( I'd expect Ohio would as well ), due to the make  up of their waters. Penna's fish, traverse large sections of 4-6 inch water over shale, and gravel, both on their run, and their return. They also face long periods of higher than optimum temps, and low oxygen ( not exacly condusive to healing ) during both periods as well.

There are large numbers of fish left in the streams in the spring. Yes, many get roped, but I remember when nobody even fished for them past December, and there were no more "repeat runners" the following year(s) then, either. Tells me, that very few make it.

spoon, how do you KNOW we are not seeing the survivors in the stream the next year or two years later which is more common for repeat spawners? any studies? no doubt some get killed due to ice, but what about the steelies that were able to avoid this?

seems to me that with the HIGH percentage of fish released (as reported by the fish commision at 80% or so) then there should be TONS of fish laying all over the place dead come spring. with the thousands of fish in erie streams, anglers would be seeing them everywhere: floating, at the bottom of pools, stuck in shallow riffles and runs, and washed up by the hundreds along the shore lines.

maybe, just maybe we have the huge runs not ONLY due to the million smolts stocked annually, but also to the high percentage of fish released. remember, smolt mortality is supposedly very high. what IF the hugh runs over the last ten years has also been the result of a much higher than previously believed return rate. (just throwing it out there)

until i see an evidence based study proving that they all die, i will continue to believe that a lot more steelhead return more than once in their lifetime....