Banking Suckers!!!!

Was fishing Bald Eagle Creek last evening and was walking up stream past the crowds, and as we walked past this one kid he was running to weeds with a sucker and said this on is going on the bank.......I stopped him and said to throw him back, that he was part of a bigger plan that the kid just wouldnt understand.....how often do you see this happen and your thoughts on doing it......I guess the people who do kill them think that they compete with trout for food but I cant recall the last time I seen a sucker take a fly of the surface.........

I don't know if suckers compete with trout.  95% of a trout's diet is sub-surface.  I don't see a reason for throwing the suckers on the bank.  But then again, I banked chubs when I was little, just because they were annoying to catch, and there were so many.  I remember fishing with a friend, he caught trout all day and I caught chubs all day.  He didn't catch one chub.  Drove me crazy. 

Great- another generation coming up that throws some people's so called "Trash Fish" in the weeds to suffocate.
WTF?
I caught one last Sunday. It stripped more line than any of the wild Rainbows I landed.

Heck I gave up almost all of your so-call gamefish except for crappie and catfish 4 to 5 years ago and now mostly fish for so-call "TRASH FISH" carp and, suckers. They are bigger and more fun to catch!

contrary to popular beleif suckers require just as clean cool water as trout.

Is it still OK to kill Gobies?

I just caught my first one ever in the Potomac yesterday. 15" and put up a good fight. They are requesting that you bank Snakeheads though... Well, kill them immediately on the spot! I have now seen several caught, and they are here to stay! At least in the Potomac...

ORIGINAL: Carphead

cjbs2003 quote:   "I'll kill every carp I catch"

People like you don't deserve to fish. Aww is the carp ruining your pellethead fishing? Maybe you should be more concerned with what is dumped into these creeks and mine runoff etc.. They cause more damage than carp do. If you are killing carp because they aren't native maybe you should consider killing brown trout too cause they sure as heck aren't native. Who are you to decide what fish is or isn't spared your almighty wrath. Grow a pair.

he's right. what if each person decides that a certain fish does not belong in a stream? soon you may be fishing a fishless creek wishing for the lowly carp of yesteryear. p.s. i'm guilty as well but i've learned as i've aged.

"I'll kill every carp I catch.."
 
I agree with Carphead here... you sir shouldn't dersevre to fish. As Sculpin 14 said ALL FISH DESERVE RESPECT.

Carphead, from your name it is obvious you love to fish for carp. There is nothing wrong with that! I do too!  What dam construction, sedimentation, logging, acid rain, acid mine drainage, pollution from paper mills, people dumping used car oil into a sewer drain, over fertilization or any other form of man made habitat destruction has to do with this argument I have no clue… I am as against pollution as anyone on here. Pollution and water fouling carp are two different things!   Before you jump to insults and accusations, quote “People like you don't deserve to fish. Aww is the carp ruining your pellethead fishing?” Or, “Who are you to decide what fish is or isn't spared your almighty wrath. Grow a pair.” Perhaps you should question a person, have a mature intellectual exchange... I find it rather rude that some of you would be so quick to insult when they do not know a person!  I am not some uninformed redneck who throws every white sucker, fallfish or common shiner up on a bank because I am ticked that I can't catch trout. I am not a “pellethead” fisherman. If you read my past posts you will see I fish for a large variety or truly wild fish. I am the person to decide what I do with my fish because I outsmarted that fish and caught it, a simple predator prey relationship. By the way, my pair is well formed and works just fine. These insults are childish and inappropriate.   Where the idea came from that I bank carp I don’ know. I actually eat them out of the cleaner bodies of water. Surprisingly the Europeans and Asians who love to eat them actually got something right and they taste great, especially when they come out of cleaner bodies of water. The ones I catch or shoot with my bow out of polluted bodies of water get turned into catfish bait or my personal favorite crab bait for my dad's crab pots on the Chesapeake Bay.
What we are talking about on this thread is the effects carp have on a fishery. I have a minor in wildlife and fisheries science from Penn State. I have studied fisheries biology and am quite knowledgeable about fish. I love fish, not just fishing for them but learning about them as well! I keep native fish in aquariums and work to with NANFA and am a member of the IGFA and Trout Unlimited. I help out every year with clean ups on local bodies of water. I am also one of the first to be VERY ANGRY when companies aren't following environmental laws that affect the habitats my beloved fish live in. I also get mad when people introduce fish into new bodies of water without thinking what their impact could be...

Brown trout, rainbow trout, largemouth bass, smallmouth bass, rockbass, bluegills, black and white crappies, channel catfish, northern pike, musky, walleyes, the list goes on and on are not native to the eastern drainages of Pennsylvania. However, their introductions have added to the fishing opportunities these bodies of water provide.  Before the introduction of these species there was much less fishing opportunity... Imagine fishing the Juniata River and the only species available were chain pickerel, yellow perch, pumpkinseed sunfish and redbreast sunfish, along with a few species of suckers and minnows. Not many guys here would vote for that kinda fishing! Sadly, due to habitat destruction I previously mentioned some of the fish such as American Shad and Striped Bass that once were available for fishing in the Juniata are not available anymore. I am not talking about striped bass in Raystown Lake; I am talking about migratory striped bass that ran from the Atlantic Ocean up the Susquehanna River to spawn each spring.

Carp fishing is no doubt fun and they put up a great fight. But unlike all the other species I mentioned carp cause a much larger amount of detriment to the aquatic habitat! The previous mentioned game fish all only affected aquatic habitats as predators, in other words they eat other fish and organisms. So their effect tends to be they eat smaller fish and to some extent competition with other game fish. However, the introduction of all those previously mentioned fish has led to the extirpation of no fish species in Pennsylvania. They have caused a few smaller fish species, a couple of darter species and trout-perch to become extremely rare in Pennsylvania. But most of the general public has never even herd of a trout-perch and certainly cannot even name one species of darter found in eastern Pennsylvania. It does appear that the introduction of brown trout has led to brook trout being forced into smaller streams where competition from brown trout is not so high. However as a whole, the introduction of the previously mentioned fish is a success if you ask the average fisherman.

Carp on the other hand are rather unique. Carp have the ability to reproduce at a much higher rate than any of these species, with a 20 lb female producing in excess of 2 million eggs in the spring! Carp grow EXTREMELY fast in most conditions meaning they quickly grow past the size where they could be preyed on. So unless you believe in the Lake Monster called Raystown Ray, any carp over 18” inches or so is free from being eaten by all but the absolute biggest musky or striped bass and even osprey and bald eagles would struggle to capture a fish of that size. Carp mostly feed by rooting in soft bottoms. This causes the turbidity of a body of water to increase dramatically. This also dislodges aquatic plants which are so important for fish habitat and waterfowl food. The increased turbidity kills the remaining aquatic plants, settles on the nests of other game fish reducing their reproductive success, affects the ability of sight feeding fish to feed, and affects many fish species who cannot handle the increased turbidity. Carp also prey heavily upon bottom organisms such as nymphs and freshwater bivalves. Food that is so important for many other game fish. I can only imagine how much better the fishing would be if it weren't for the damage carp do. Unfortunately, carp are here to stay. As far as the idea that if everyone banked certain fish they felt weren’t worthy we would be fishing in a fishless creek. Well, we have fish laws… First, I doubt people are going to start tossing trout up on a bank, but who knows! I honestly don’t know if the Fish and Boat Commission has a law like the Game Commission’s which is something to the effect that if you shoot game you must make due diligence to recover it. I personally hate the idea of banking fish and believe that if you catch a fish, you should either release it or you should do something useful with it. Whether that is eat it, use it for bait or like the Native Americans, use it to fertilize your garden!   Best of luck in your carp fishing, my personal best for carp is 37.5” and 32 lbs caught in the Potomac River. I bet my dad caught a whole bushel of crabs just of that fish alone! Beats him having to pay for menhaden to bait his traps with and I think the carp works even better…

Well carphead, it is apprently you're an @sshole that hides behind the computer. I try to have a grown up conversation and all you can do it go to insults. I seriously doubt you'd be such a tough guy to my face. Others can read our posts and make their owns decisions... The next time we have a carp shoot I'll post the pictures of all the dead carp just to make you happy!

I respect carp, the ones that live in their native habitat in Asia where they belong... Don't get upset that you attempted to put me in my place and failed. 

Cjbs I was just reading over your responses and right off the bat I do mainly fish for carp now. I used to fish for all other species of fish available to me. Your argument of carp is a very common one so thats more than likely why he took offense. I do take offense sometimes but only when people won't listen. I will say my two cents to this. As far as why I believe the whole pollution part was brought up is a huge factor because carp are blamed for problems when in reality a ton are manmade issues. You have fertilizer run off killing fish and also clouding the water to the point where the sun can not penetrate to the bottom meaning no vegetation. Often this is blamed on carp "mudding" up the water. Truth of the matter is they do to an extent but not an entire lake. There spawning habits are agressive and produce the amount you specified and I will talk more about that later. Most lakes here are not kept up or any maintenance done to them so with pollution and runoff they deteriorate. Look at shawnee. They drained and dredged the lake with no plantlife being planted afterwards. Guess what between that and the fact you get fertilizer run off the only vegetation you see is on the banks and not in the water so a lot of fish get disease and die off including carp. Carp are a stronger fish so you see a greater number there but when you catch them you can see they have not eaten a lot. Also there feeding habits are definately not only muddy soft bottoms. They will feed anywhere.
 
The biggest thing I see is the confusion of species of carp. Grass carp are bread to eat grass plain and simple and they are used for aquatic vegetation control and often the common carp is perceived in teh same way which they may root through vegetation as you said they do not eat it as most people think. Now as you know you need a permit for these to stock and in juniata there are grass carp that were introduced without permission being a true invasive specie. You have the asian carp and thats a whole different subject. Again you have a lot of people blaming the common carp as being the same as an asian carp or grass carp. They are definately different. Also you see the complains of carp eating all kinds of eggs and such. Well what do catfish do? lol they bottom feed along with suckers and such others.
 
I think the biggest concern people should have are overharvest of pike and bass and other predatory fish in the waters because as said when carp spawn they have tons of eggs and only a small percentage survive because thats the bass and other fish foodsource.Even when you buy shiners guess what a lot of those are? Carp  So even if you would wipe out carp people would stil be buying them for bait so they would be reintroduced again. The problem is people take wayyyyyy too many fish home instead of throwing some back. I see in the late 80's this happening when people were taking tons of bass and pike and also killing them and throwing them on the bank so when a carp spawns more would survive and thatss why some lakes have the overpopulations on them. You can show me all the data in the world  and a lot of times its to show an easy out as the carp being the main source the common carp that is. Notice how you haven't heard of carp problems 20 years ago. They have been around 100's of years and were introduced here for a food source.  Now from that time till 20 years ago why were they not a major problem? See my point with that. I think when lakes start to show problems of certain fish taking over the limits of others should be reduced till the  the biomass of a lake corrects inself naturally and not by man itself.
 
If you want to know more about carp or even attend a fish in let me know if you want to come have a good time.

The Drake has a magazine with a Sucker centerfold.