DarDys 

As usual, when you speak about which you know not and rely on talking points dig up without support, you are wrong.

You can have the last word.  Thanks for the debate

DarDys

JerryS

DarDys
Care to cite a reliable source that “most” pro gun people are in favor of owning full auto, rocket launchers, tanks… as you state, and spare the opinion of MSM talking heads because what their personal feelings are isn’t a reliable source.

BTW, one can own full auto, rocket launchers, and, yes, tanks in the US. But one must possess a class 5 (3? I can’t keep them straight) firearms license and in the history of that class of license exactly zero people have been shot by those possessing said license. So, there is some common sense gun law — can’t pass the rigors of that background check — no class license.

But to extend those rigors to a commonly used gun like an AR is not common sense.

I bought a suppressor last year and had to qualify for a lesser class license which only required a form 4473 (required for all new gun purchases and ALL handgun purchases with a penalty of up to 15 years for falsifying anything on it) and digital finger prints.

When buying a new gun, it typically takes about 2-5 minutes to clear the 4473 check if there are no issues. The digital fingerprints go through the FBI database and, like a Google search, particularly if your fingerprints are not on file (meaning you have never been arrested, let along convicted) takes a fraction of a second. Yet it took 9 months and 20 days for the ATF using digital forms (the old paper ones took longer) to issue my tax stamp in order for the store to turn over the suppressor to me (which must be bought prior to applying because each application and tax stamp are keyed to the SN on the suppressor).

Further, because the tax stamp is SN specific, I am the only one that can use it. I cannot lend it, even to my wife, or sell it to anyone. In fact, unless I set up a trust, upon my death, the federal government gets the suppressor and destroys it.

So getting a higher class license is even more rigorous, including no warrant inspection permission at any time for any reason to inventory that you still possess the firearm or tank in question.

Since more people are killed by drunk drivers than in mass shootings, would it not be sensible to do a background check for DUI before selling anyone alcohol? If they pass that, a breathalyzer before serving anyone another drink? Background on motor vehicle accidents, citations before selling someone a vehicle?

A drink is harmless unless someone goes beyond where it is legal. Vehicles are harmless unless someone goes beyond where it is legal. And ARs are harmless unless someone goes beyond where it is legal.

 
You are good at trying to make your point using strawman arguments.  I never stated: “most” pro gun people are in favor of owning full auto...  I stated most pro-gun arguments could support owning such weapons.  Arguments like:

• A drink is harmless unless someone goes beyond where it is legal. Vehicles are harmless unless someone goes beyond where it is legal. And ARs are harmless unless someone goes beyond where it is legal.

• Guns don't kill people, people kill people
• Any 2nd amendment reference

Might as well make fentanyl legal.  Someone could have an open bag of fentanyl sitting on the street and it would not jump up and kill someone.
 
If you knew as much about guns as you claim, you would know that military studies show the semi-auto rifle (one trigger pull, one bullet), with a high-capacity magazine, is better for killing than a full-auto rifle since the semi is inherently more accurate and uses ammo more efficiently.  Although you probably do know this but it doesn't fit your narrative.

As usual, when you speak about which you know not and rely on talking points dig up without support, you are wrong.

Semi-auto, in the hands of the trained, tend to be more accurately shot as opposed to full auto, which has a totally different purpose than accuracy.

The straw man (person???) argument you attempting to use is that the military, at one time, during Nam, had either full auto or semiautomatic single fire on the M-16, which is an actual weapon of war. The non shooters who were drafted into the military could not shoot the single fire mode very well, so they tended to follow the illogical axiom of “accuracy through volume” by using the full auto mode.

The problem was, it was even less accurate, particularly after the barrel heated, and it depleted ammunition faster than it could be resupplied.

So the military went to the gun manufacturer and requested another option, the three shot burst. This gave the physiological comfort to the non shooters turned soldiers of multiple shots with one trigger pull (these are also illegal for the non class holding general public) and conserved ammunition at the same time.

The MSM had taken the rationale of why this was done, as stated above, and twisted it into the talking point you are regurgitating with being either as unknowing or willfully and intentionally misleading as they are.

I will give that a single shot, fired in a calm and deliberate manner is far more accurate, but that’s not what these mass shooters are doing. They are slamming the trigger as quick as they can (listen to the shots from the Texas mall in the parking lot), which shows any real lack of knowledge, training, or practice beyond knowing how to load the thing and maybe some shots fired to test it.

Even with boot camp military training, most are not accurate enough in a single shot mode to do the harm they could. Imagine if someone who was a good shot, instead of these whack jobs were doing the shooting.

To put that in perspective, studies show that police officers, who qualify yearly, so they have a deeper understanding of firearms and their use than do these “bought it a week ago” nuts, in a street firefight, miss 80% of the time.

The term "Straw man argument" means to intentionally misrepresent one's position, because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument. It's gained traction in recent years in the age of internet battlefields like this one. 

Looks like Jerry is telling you you're doing this by saying he mentioned  “most” pro gun people are in favor of owning full auto vs what he actually said of "I stated most pro-gun arguments could support owning such weapons."
 
 

Flea markets, yard sales, estate sales, from a friend, or any individual and many auctions you don't need a back ground check or identification to purchase rifles or shotguns. Need identification to bid at the auctions but many auctioneers are not a licensed dealer so no background check needed for Pa. Guns ain't hard to buy for criminals, mentally ill or anyone that looks old enough.  

pensfan1
Facts are the AR platform is the weapon of choice for many many mass murders. I'll ask again, why?

For a specific type of psychologically profiled shooter I would agree that it is the weapon of choice for multiple reasons:
 
1.) Availability...they are everywhere and fairly cheap for what a shooter gets. Target ammo is also available and compared to ballistic tips is fairly cheap. 
2.) Simplicity and ease of use...couple steps, pull the trigger...lots of rounds down range.  Most AR style platforms can be customized to fit the shooter's body and comfort level with some minor modifications. Most of the guns have adjustable stocks and/or moveable grips when purchased facilitating comfort and ease of use.   
3.) Functionality and accuracy...it's pretty easy to be highly accurate with a 5.56 round coming out of the AR platform with a reasonably cheap optic.  The 5.56 round travels fast and is highly accurate and easy to fire from 10 yds to well out into the 100's of yards. This offers multiple options for someone looking to kill/wound a lot of people and then to engage LE when they respond. A ballistic tipped 5.56 round is as deadly as they come IMO when a target is hit center mass.  The bullet fragments and bounces around causing massive destruction.  
4.) Popularity...most first person shooter games feature some style of AR style weapon as options.  It is my guess that many of these younger, disturbed individuals have grown up playing these games and when they graduate to shooting real people this is their choice. 
5.) Regardless of a discussion about sporting use of the AR platform it is a weapon designed to kill/wound people as outlined by Dardy's information on the development of the gun for the Vietnam war. 
 
If you have ever shot a semi-auto AR style weapon you know when you shoot it that the weapon is:
- powerful
-comfortable
-accurate
-highly efficient
Most "crimes of passion" seem to be committed with hand guns as opposed to planned mass shootings with seem to mostly be committed with an AR style platform as the primary weapon, backed with handguns or shotguns as secondary weapons. 

Flea markets, yard sales, estate sales, from a friend, or any individual and many auctions you don't need a back ground check or identification to purchase rifles or shotguns. Need identification to bid at the auctions but many auctioneers are not a licensed dealer so no background check needed for Pa. Guns ain't hard to buy for criminals, mentally ill or anyone that looks old enough.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            " And when asked to state one case where the “gun show loophole” as all of the above have been lumped into, for narrative purposes, has been used in a mass shooting, the MSM cannot find one.

But it could happen, don’t you know."
 
 Just stating (facts} a ton of used long guns including the AR's you don't need a background check or id to purchase. I see AR's at all the places I stated above. Have no clue where killers have bought the weapon they used in a crime.
 
 Best deals on guns come from the places I posted. So if yinzes are out for good deals on long guns check the internet auctions, neighborhood sales near you and flea markets. Some sales have more than the gun shop so take a good bit of doe if planning on loading up. The ammo and guns go much cheaper at these places unless a newly elected Dem leader has take over. Stay away from the auctions for a good year unless want to pay twice what the firearm is worth. Some crazy nut jobs are out there for sure.
 
 
 
 
 
 

 Back in the 70's I filled out the paper work and sold 100's of guns at a sporting goods store and I was not old enough to do so. The manager was eventually told this by the police. They just told him for me not to sign the paper work he could the next day, Lol 
 
 In my late 30's where I worked and sold firearms it was a pleasure when they put the phone call background check in place. I didn't have to sell them after midnight since it was not available.
 
  How many used guns are in the USA compared to new for sale?
 I didn't google it but could probably get a rough figure. 
 
 Beautiful day out there. Just picked some Lilacs 
 
 They look and smell so nice!
 
   

Think the U.S. government should do this or state by state? 

 Were you a decent shooter or not so when you went into combat? Were the instructors just bad or the trainees just had little coordination to become a decent shot?   
 Thank you for your service Sir.

The evolution of the AR-15, aka M16 rifle was brought about by military necessary. WWII saw the issuance of the M-1 Garand rifle; 30 caliber and more commonly called the 30-06. Some soldiers started in the war after Pearl Harbor having to use the original 03-A3 Springfield rifle, which was a bolt action and used a 5 shot stripper clip to load it, but once the M-1 became widely available and into combat, it was discovered that troops (in a squad) fanned out on either side of the BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle) man would stop shooting because they thought the BAR was so superior to their rifle. The BAR used a 20 round magazine, was equipped with a selector switch, and weight nearly 21 lbs. The M-1 used an 8 shot clip that pushed down into the action, and after the 8th round the clip was expended out of the action and the action remained open to accept the clip. So, in the '50s, here comes the M-14, nearly identical to the M-1, (many parts are interchangeable), except that the cartridge was reduced from 30-06 down to what is normally called the 7.62NATO round, commercially called the 308 Winchester. The difference in the action was that the M-14 used a 20 round magazine inserted from the bottom, and the trigger group was fitted with a selector switch for single round or full auto fire. A soldiers 782 gear web belt called for 4 canvas cartridge boxes, each of which held 2 full magazines. Imagine how much weight that was along with a first aid kit, mess kit, and two full canteens. The beauty of the '14 was that even though wet and dirty, it still worked. The M-14 weighed exactly the same as the M-1: 11 1/4lbs.
The first M-16s manufactured by the Armalite Corp worked very well, but then political pressure from Springfield Armory to the Army that the round used needed 200 fps more for a 55grain bullet, which prompted Winchester to up the powder charge in the round, thereby increasing pressure, and then thereby causing the weapon to hammer itself apart and/or jamming, thereby having the manufacturer, (one of which was now Springfield Armory) to add a buffer inside of the butt stock, and adding a forward assist manual handle to the right behind the bolt to help clear jams. Marines are fanatical about keeping a clean weapon; the Army personnel not so much. Reports came back from Viet Nam about misfires, hang fires, and jamming. The plusses of the '16 were the light weight, (about 6 1/2 lbs.), and a trooper could now carry 12 to 16 twenty round magazines, which allowed them to waste a lot of ammunition. (You may have seen actual footage of troopers holding the rifle above their foxhole and emptying one mag after another without stickin' their head up or trying to aim).
When all is said and done, it was about light weight and maximum fire power that made the M-16/AR15 so popular, plus the fact America loves military cartridges from the days of the 45-70 and 30-40 Krag to the present. It also ensures ammo will be available for years, and that makes the AR-15 a big seller.
I have forgotten some of the nomenclature of these weapons, but there's enough to give you the gist. I'm an old Gunner's Mate Guns Navy man who was also in the SeaBees, trained by Marines.

Shot most of them some even in full auto but have always had a sweet spot for the mini-14.
Not always a .223 fan but the 14 always shot very comfortably for me

I like presidents who aren’t indicted

Twice

So far

I feel like it’s a pretty obvious rhetorical response:

“Of course the evil joe Biden administration has weaponized the judicial system, and of course this investigation is just another politically motivated attack on Donald Trump.

But trump makes it too easy. He leaves himself wide open to these attacks. He opens the door to this stuff because of how he conducts himself. We need a candidate who is not a scandal machine. We need (insert candidate x here).”

Whether something like that plays with the Republican primary voters is another story.

But really though, this indictment probably just guarantees trump’s nomination. Which at this point I’m fine with. The most likely scenario is that it makes it impossible to win a general. But if he somehow does manage to win a second term then this country deserves everything it gets for being so collectively brainless.

Special Counsel Jack Smith was appointed in March, (not confirmed by the Senate), and in just 3 months he has the indictments. Meanwhile, the DOJ has been investigating the Biden's for more than 5 years and yet we've heard nothing but crickets, despite mountains of evidence. Seems like the DOJ is tryin' to run out the statute of limitations? Just wonderin'. Also a little strange that Trump gets indicted on the very same day that the FBI showed the document to the entire committee showing where Hunter and Joe Biden each got $5mil from Burisma. Coincidence? I think not.

Speaking of UFOs
If our air force lost as many planes as the crashes of UFOs reports  indicate they loose    we would all be grounded

EMitch
Special Counsel Jack Smith was appointed in March, (not confirmed by the Senate), and in just 3 months he has the indictments. Meanwhile, the DOJ has been investigating the Biden's for more than 5 years and yet we've heard nothing but crickets, despite mountains of evidence. Seems like the DOJ is tryin' to run out the statute of limitations? Just wonderin'. Also a little strange that Trump gets indicted on the very same day that the FBI showed the document to the entire committee showing where Hunter and Joe Biden each got $5mil from Burisma. Coincidence? I think not.

So they've both been investigated. Biden much more thoroughly, by your account. And your saying only the one has been indicted? Wow. Weird. MAYBE your guy is a f'ing criminal. Jus sayin... Innocent until proven guilty and all that. I won't hold my breath until I see a conviction. BTW I don't give 2 chits if Hunter Biden rots in jail. No big time Biden fan here. And if ol Joe ends up being indicted too, good. Innocent until proven guilty and all that. LAW AND ORDER. Amiright?