Helpful ReplyHot!Give me all your moneys

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PaYakr
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/08 14:16:08 (permalink)
The businesses in Pennsylvania that are paying less then $15 per hour, and there are many, will either shut down, let some employees go, or pass those costs on to the consumer.  Most likely they will need to do a combination of reduce staff and raise prices if they don't fold altogether.  Keep in mind those currently making $15 an hour, or thereabouts, because they supervise minimum wage staff or have been with the company for some time, will need to be compensated above those who just got a bump to $15, so it isn't just as simple as moving everyone to the new minimum wage.  No way around it, doubling the minimum wage in PA will have a significant effect on everyone's cost of living, and will be disastrous for many.  Anyone who doesn't see that is niave.  This will not eliminate those needing public assistance because the costs of goods and services will adjust, essentially raising the income thresholds that determine eligibility.  Fingers crossed that the people in Washington realize states can't handle a 100% increase in the minimum wage, even if it occurred during a strong economy.  That said, part of me hopes it happens, and those who thought it was a good idea get a swift kick of reality.  Going to buy my popcorn now, just in case, before it costs $10 a bag.
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Porktown
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/08 16:41:59 (permalink)
PaYakr
The businesses in Pennsylvania that are paying less then $15 per hour, and there are many, will either shut down, let some employees go, or pass those costs on to the consumer.  


If they go out of business, then they won't have to pay the higher income tax that Wolf is proposing.  Got to look at things as half full, right???
 
And, not thanks to the "part of me hopes it happens".  Most of those that think it is a good idea will keep thinking it is a good idea, since they double their pay...  Keep getting food, housing and health assistance.  The Democrat machine will figure out a way to paint it into a good thing, that many of their sheeple will just repeat and convince themselves.  Go back to the Trump thread, it is amazing how each side's media can convince their followers that the worst news ever, is somehow good news???
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crappiefisher
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/08 17:18:21 (permalink)
 Got a letter in the mail a few years back saying if I worked for X company between so and so dates a check would be coming in the future. Didn't think much about it then got a nice surprise. $100 a hr. for every hour worked during that period. Man, thought this is almost plumbers wages. A year later same message in the mail. Mostly late fees and interest rates made the $100 bonus per hr.  Them Dems are dumber than Reps on some stuff. This stimulus should be going to people that lost jobs and work at food marts, retail stores and nurses and so on. 
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pensfan1
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/08 19:00:38 (permalink)
Totally agree with this ☝. Anyone whose job wasn't effected shouldn't be getting a check. Heck, we were much bussier at the store from March to July.
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crappiefisher
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/08 19:57:55 (permalink)
 Tim, If that Hobart don't interest you there is a nice empty tool box more than 60% off new price on Ebay. No wonder it cost $80 and up to get a car worked on nowadays. Thought my $8,500 was over priced.https://www.ebay.com/itm/...Qa6EAQYAiABEgKla_D_BwE
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MyWar
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/08 20:01:16 (permalink)
pensfan1
Totally agree with this ☝. Anyone whose job wasn't effected shouldn't be getting a check. Heck, we were much bussier at the store from March to July.


The problem with means testing is that it’s difficult and it takes too long. And no matter what kind of rules you set, some people aren’t going to receive the benefits they need, and people are going to get piissed off.

Sure, I wouldn’t complain if the government said I wasn’t eligible for this stimulus payment; I’ve had steady employment and I don’t work in a public facing job where I am at risk of getting sick. But how is the federal government supposed to know that? And how would they know that for all of the tens of millions of Americans that might be eligible? Can you imagine what kind of complicated, conditional sets of rules they would have to come up with?

I’d also say that people who have had steady work in public facing jobs (like grocery store workers for example) should absolutely get a check. Those MFers deserve a bonus. They don’t make enough as it is and they have been risking their lives.

Plus, it’s a *stimulus* payment. Part of the intent here is to stimulate the economy as a whole, which benefits everybody.

So for those reasons it’s just easier to give it to everybody.
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EMitch
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/09 06:33:06 (permalink)
As a skilled worker, if the minimum wage goes up $7.75 per hour, then I've just had my hourly rate cut by the same amount. Only union workers have contracts tied to the minimum wage where they get the same raises above their regular contractual raises, so they might be all for it. Skilled non-union workers will get the shaft.
I'm sick to death of hearin' the minimum wage isn't a living wage. IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE! It's a starting wage for high school graduates and college bound students. The old story about an adult working 3 minimum wage jobs part time to stay alive don't cut it with me. Going back to the Carter Administration, this country has dumped hundreds of billions of dollars into retraining programs, and it still does. People need to learn how to pull themselves up and live on their own. Learn a skill or a trade. People in some of the trades, (ie: plumber, welder, equipment operator) make more money than the college grads, especially those who majored in political science or the arts. I don't usually talk to people like that, but when I do, I usually order the Big Mac & fries.

If you agree with the Progressive Democrats, that's freedom of speech. If you disagree, it's hate speech and racism.
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Erie Mako
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/09 08:06:51 (permalink)
EMitch
As a skilled worker, if the minimum wage goes up $7.75 per hour, then I've just had my hourly rate cut by the same amount. Only union workers have contracts tied to the minimum wage where they get the same raises above their regular contractual raises, so they might be all for it. Skilled non-union workers will get the shaft.
I'm sick to death of hearin' the minimum wage isn't a living wage. IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE! It's a starting wage for high school graduates and college bound students. The old story about an adult working 3 minimum wage jobs part time to stay alive don't cut it with me. Going back to the Carter Administration, this country has dumped hundreds of billions of dollars into retraining programs, and it still does. People need to learn how to pull themselves up and live on their own. Learn a skill or a trade. People in some of the trades, (ie: plumber, welder, equipment operator) make more money than the college grads, especially those who majored in political science or the arts. I don't usually talk to people like that, but when I do, I usually order the Big Mac & fries.




Erie Mako likes this!
 
My kingdom for a "like" button!

On the internet, EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion!
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crappiefisher
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/09 08:29:09 (permalink)
 When Giant Eagle (Local 23) came to the Pittsburgh area in the 70's they were paying twice the min. wage to start. Had better prices than their competitors. The meat cutters (skilled trade) were making good enough money to support a family. $12--$15 a hr. back in the 70's wasn't all that bad at that time. A new Chevy Nova was around 2 grand. Once they took the market from Foodland, A&P, Kroger and most of the Shop n' Saves they started a min. wage approach with no full time (saves on healthcare, vacation & Holiday pay. The meat cutters (skilled) took a huge cut also. I know this because I have a Meat Cutter diploma   People running that so called union are probably gonna end up in HELL!! Oh yeah the managers are full time because they can't be in the union.   If you saw how wrong they handle refrigerated milk and unrefrigerated outdated eggs you would puke. Can't believe everyone in Butler didn't have Somalia (sp?)
 
 Hope I start feeling better soon. Been on the couch for 3 days straight and getting grumpier by the hour, sorry.
 
 Hey Pork I have this old ugly bench just marked down 20% https://www.google.com/sh...hULac0KHZT7C2EQ9pwGCA4
post edited by crappiefisher - 2021/02/09 08:41:10
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MyWar
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/09 08:44:54 (permalink)
EMitch
I'm sick to death of hearin' the minimum wage isn't a living wage. IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE! It's a starting wage for high school graduates and college bound students.


Wrong. You are just wrong. Anybody that would say something so dumb is totally ignorant of the history of labor movement in both the US and worldwide.

Reforms and labor protections like the minimum wage were passed because of dangerous conditions and low wages in the workplace which had developed in the wake of industrialization in the late 19th century. Women and children in particular were working long hours for practically nonexistent wages in dangerous conditions. In other words: SWEATSHOPS. It had nothing to do with “college kids” or fast food workers, it’s because there were SWEATSHOPS in the US. So please GTFO with your nonsense.
graveydavey
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/09 08:56:09 (permalink)
Thank goodness all the SWEATSHOPS moved to China !!!
pensfan1
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/09 09:00:31 (permalink)
Yes, minimum wage jobs were supposed to be stepping stones to bigger and better things in life. The problem is, and I see this everyday, many adults are stuck in these types of jobs. Every person that runs registers or stocks the shelves in the store I work at are in this same boat. They make a crappy wage, are offered crappy benefits and have no other skills that they can use to better themselves. This is the case for millions and millions of Americans across the country.
crappiefisher
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/09 09:01:20 (permalink)
 Before people rush to pay for a trade job school try on the job training to see if it is for you. Masonry, Mechanic, Plumber, Electrician, Carpenter, Auto Body ain't the same as being in a classroom with one or 2 instructors building a doll house. Plus some of the contractors have years of real on the job knowledge and not some college degree punk running the show. Say welding for example you are getting pay to learn and if you think it's for you take a welding test to get certified. Don't go in debt to find out it ain't for you.
 
 I better get a pain pill in me soon.
 
crappy 
MyWar
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/09 09:16:07 (permalink)
pensfan1
Yes, minimum wage jobs were supposed to be stepping stones to bigger and better things in life.


Again, no. They were not.

Those who cannot remember history are confirmed to repeat it.

If anybody doesn’t believe me when I say that there were literal sweatshops in the US then try opening a history book. Or at least start with the Wikipedia entry.

https://en.m.wikipedia.or...e_in_the_United_States

https://en.m.wikipedia.or..._Industrial_Revolution

https://en.m.wikipedia.or...w_in_the_United_States
crappiefisher
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/09 09:30:34 (permalink)
 Wish my uncle was here to chime in this discussion...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesar_Chavez
pensfan1
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/09 09:36:55 (permalink)
Yes, minimum wage was made to protect workers, I don't disagree with that. But at $7.75 it has become basically poverty line.
Erie Mako
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/09 10:38:27 (permalink)
Yeah, minimum wage jobs can be "stepping stones" to better things, but I know waaaayyy to many people that have decided to use it as a resting place because they get subsidized with a state ACCESS card to sit on their arses and not have any ambition to make their lives better for themselves.
 
 

On the internet, EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion!
Porktown
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/09 10:42:12 (permalink)
How are people "stuck" in these jobs that aren't paying a livable wage?  If a place like SF or NY is 3-4 times the cost of living of some place in the middle of a forest, wouldn't their livable wages be different?
 
As Crappy noted, the skilled labor industry is PAYING people to train.  Then when done training, many skilled labor positions pay MORE than many 4 year college degree professions.  None of these people are "stuck" choosing these professions.  They may not enjoy what they are doing, but how many people would rather be working than just about anything else, if not being paid for it?  Maybe you chose the wrong profession, but what is the "right" profession?  You are never stuck doing it.  I have been doing pretty much the same profession for 22 years, I've had title changes and responsibilities changed.  I am not nearly paid as well as many people that I know that are my age.  I am "stuck", because I made the decision of my profession and lack of motivation to find something better.  That is 100% on me.  Most markets are setting their own "minimum wage", that is how economics works.  If you don't like that market's minimum wage, then move or acquire a different skill.  I understand that some people have been doing something for so long, it is hard for them to make a change.  They have family and friends in an area and hard for them to move.  I moved to the DC area in the late 90s due to lack of opportunity here.  I knew no one in the area and lived in a crappy hotel for a few weeks, then into an apartment that many would consider "the ghetto" that took 90% of my take home pay...  I used that as leverage to move again and make more in a lower cost of living market.  Life is filled with hard decisions and life in general isn't fair.  Those that do better in life are the ones learn from their decisions, whether good or bad and stop repeating the bad decisions.  Not just keep living in those bad decisions waiting for someone to "make things fair".  When you touch a hot stove and burn your hands, the government shouldn't have to come into your house and put a safety wall up, so you don't go and burn your hand again...  While "making things fair" for some, it completely pulls the carpet from those that learned from their bad decisions.
 
No doubt there are examples of wrong doing like Giant Eagle and other corporations.  That is what labor laws should be out to protect people from.  Not forcing markets that $15/hr is the market rate for someone with 15-20 years experience, to pay everyone this rate.  Those markets would hyper inflate and ruin many more lives than it would "save".  In markets like mine, it likely wouldn't be as noticeable.  From what I see in local advertising, many "entry level" positions that aren't advertising the need for specific skills, are hiring in the $11-$13/hr range.  With many working there that are likely a few years into their positions making that $15/hr.  20 minute drive to downtown, although I don't know this for sure, but would imagine the market there is pretty close to $15/hr for most jobs.  An hour car drive away from town, those same positions are paying $9-$11/hr.  Another hour and might have some that are paying $7.25.  Our economy is not one size fits all.  We need to stop trying to treat it like it is.
Porktown
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/09 10:43:25 (permalink)
Erie Mako
Yeah, minimum wage jobs can be "stepping stones" to better things, but I know waaaayyy to many people that have decided to use it as a resting place because they get subsidized with a state ACCESS card to sit on their arses and not have any ambition to make their lives better for themselves.
 
 


How's FisherLady doing?  
Erie Mako
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/09 10:48:38 (permalink)
Porktown
Erie Mako
Yeah, minimum wage jobs can be "stepping stones" to better things, but I know waaaayyy to many people that have decided to use it as a resting place because they get subsidized with a state ACCESS card to sit on their arses and not have any ambition to make their lives better for themselves.
 
 


How's FisherLady doing?  




Grumpy as of late because of working too much catering to the masses...

On the internet, EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion!
Erie Mako
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/09 10:56:54 (permalink)
Every day, I see people that need to:
Get off their azz.
Quit riding the WalMart battery scooter.
Show some initiative.
Learn a skill or trade.
Get off ACCESS.
Stop breeding kids.
Get an actual job.
 
And while their at it, spend some of that beer money and replace that burned out headlight that they've been ignoring for the past 6 months... 
 
 

On the internet, EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion!
Porktown
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/09 10:57:39 (permalink)
Erie Mako
 
 
Grumpy as of late because of working too much catering to the masses...


That sucks.  You have yourself one of the good ones.
 
Not in the same definition as the ladies that are into Porktown! 
 
BTW - I agree with what you are saying about many people settling for those jobs and the state making it easy for them to lose ambition.  The Fed doubling minimum wage is just adding to the loss of ambition.  Others note the more and more AI being used in every day life.  What happens when there are 350M people looking for work, but only 200M jobs?  Do we then just pay livable wages to everyone, regardless of working?  To me, that is where our labor laws should be looking.
LDD
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/09 11:01:14 (permalink)
Porktown
  An hour car drive away from town, those same positions are paying $9-$11/hr.  Another hour and might have some that are paying $7.25.  Our economy is not one size fits all.  We need to stop trying to treat it like it is.



Another thing that's not "one size fits all" is the American worker.  Some people simply don't have either the faculties, the health, or the support system to ever achieve anything other than a minimum wage job no matter what we decide they should do.  
Clearly, a certain percentage are lazy or have made bad personal choices but it's tough to discount the millions of worker in our economy who simply cannot achieve a higher level of employment because of reasons beyond their control.  Some people are dumb, unfortunate, have bad health, have family responsibilities that determine their fates.  That's just a fact.  We either figure out how to pay them more, support them through social services or they're going to be living in your local parks in ever growing numbers.  Bombay's ghetto has a million people living in cardboard boxes.  That is also an alternative.  
 
Fisherlady2
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/09 11:09:08 (permalink)
Porktown
How are people "stuck" in these jobs that aren't paying a livable wage?  If a place like SF or NY is 3-4 times the cost of living of some place in the middle of a forest, wouldn't their livable wages be different?
 
As Crappy noted, the skilled labor industry is PAYING people to train.  Then when done training, many skilled labor positions pay MORE than many 4 year college degree professions.  None of these people are "stuck" choosing these professions.  They may not enjoy what they are doing, but how many people would rather be working than just about anything else, if not being paid for it?  Maybe you chose the wrong profession, but what is the "right" profession?  You are never stuck doing it.  I have been doing pretty much the same profession for 22 years, I've had title changes and responsibilities changed.  I am not nearly paid as well as many people that I know that are my age.  I am "stuck", because I made the decision of my profession and lack of motivation to find something better.  That is 100% on me.  Most markets are setting their own "minimum wage", that is how economics works.  If you don't like that market's minimum wage, then move or acquire a different skill.  I understand that some people have been doing something for so long, it is hard for them to make a change.  They have family and friends in an area and hard for them to move.  I moved to the DC area in the late 90s due to lack of opportunity here.  I knew no one in the area and lived in a crappy hotel for a few weeks, then into an apartment that many would consider "the ghetto" that took 90% of my take home pay...  I used that as leverage to move again and make more in a lower cost of living market.  Life is filled with hard decisions and life in general isn't fair.  Those that do better in life are the ones learn from their decisions, whether good or bad and stop repeating the bad decisions.  Not just keep living in those bad decisions waiting for someone to "make things fair".  When you touch a hot stove and burn your hands, the government shouldn't have to come into your house and put a safety wall up, so you don't go and burn your hand again...  While "making things fair" for some, it completely pulls the carpet from those that learned from their bad decisions.
 
No doubt there are examples of wrong doing like Giant Eagle and other corporations.  That is what labor laws should be out to protect people from.  Not forcing markets that $15/hr is the market rate for someone with 15-20 years experience, to pay everyone this rate.  Those markets would hyper inflate and ruin many more lives than it would "save".  In markets like mine, it likely wouldn't be as noticeable.  From what I see in local advertising, many "entry level" positions that aren't advertising the need for specific skills, are hiring in the $11-$13/hr range.  With many working there that are likely a few years into their positions making that $15/hr.  20 minute drive to downtown, although I don't know this for sure, but would imagine the market there is pretty close to $15/hr for most jobs.  An hour car drive away from town, those same positions are paying $9-$11/hr.  Another hour and might have some that are paying $7.25.  Our economy is not one size fits all.  We need to stop trying to treat it like it is.


Porktown
 




^^^^^^^^  This!
 
People make choices every day, and it seems everyone wants credit for those with good results but no one is ever to blame when those decisions have poor results.  
 
 I left home within a month of turning 18 and headed to a distant town for a new chance because I wasn't about to stay somewhere that didn't have anything to really offer at the time. I had a suitcase and maybe a 100 of babysitting money in my pocket, but I had already earned a certification (took a night course while still in high school) that allowed me to get an entry level job. I worked multiple jobs to get enough extra to pay for a class to reach another level of certification,  and after hundreds of hours of training I got that.  I stuck with it , I have put up with the hours, the missed holidays and family events and the working conditions but it has gotten me to a point where I have security and am OK with where I am. 
During those years I chose to miss out on a lot of 'extras' that some seem to view as necessities....I opted to rarely go to movies or bars, I bought clothes as needed, not as seasonal fashion wardrobes, I opted for vehicles which were practical and kept them, rather than trade up every other year. 
 This is all about choices and accepting responsibility for the results. Anyone can be handed a hard lot in life, you can roll over and hold out your hand waiting for someone (ie, taxpayers) to bail you out or you can get yourself up and out, even if needing to use the safety nets set up to help people out. I have no problem with the safety nets set up to help out... I do have a problem with them being abused as a way of life rather than a way out of a bad life. 
CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/09 11:17:53 (permalink)
There's an old saying "It's not what you know it's who you know "! Even with skilled trades or good working backgrounds it's tough to find a good paying job especially now more than ever. Wonder how many people on these threads actually got their "own job "without inside help from friends or relatives ? And no doubt some people are content or lazy as far as work, but don't judge everyone stuck on minimum wage jobs as not having ambition to move up .
 
Why don't most companies have fair company employee profit sharing ? Because they are greedy...it's that simple .....hence union contracts .    
Porktown
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/09 13:26:57 (permalink)
CAPTAIN HOOK
Wonder how many people on these threads actually got their "own job "without inside help from friends or relatives ? 

I answered a want ad in the "Baltimore Sun" while I was living in Indiana, PA for a job in Lorton, VA.  My parents did lend me money for the few days that I had to stay in a motel and my first month's rent until I got paid.
DarDys
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/09 13:33:11 (permalink)
I knew no one at any of the organizations that I became employed at until I was employed. My references knew no one at those organizations either.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
LDD
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/09 13:52:17 (permalink)
The only place that I ever applied to where I knew someone is a job I didn't get...go figure
Porktown
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/09 14:18:08 (permalink)
LDD
 
Another thing that's not "one size fits all" is the American worker.  Some people simply don't have either the faculties, the health, or the support system to ever achieve anything other than a minimum wage job no matter what we decide they should do.  

This is what the social safety nets in place are for.  This is also a very small percentage of people (at least the faculties portion).  I don't think the health or support system portions are all that large either.    
 
One of my buddies had his own contracting company (20 years), he had to find something with health insurance since his wife got really sick, so no longer does his own thing.  He started guys at $20/hr.  After they showed what they could do, would pay $30/hr+.  He said that he could get enough work to carry 10 guys full time.  He couldn't get guys to stick around for more than a year, since the vast majority of guys couldn't handle getting up in the morning from drinking the night prior or would just stop showing up without any notice.  His best workers would stick around until something that didn't have to deal with the others came up...  I have seen that same exact thing in my company as well and have heard it from many others as well.  IUP was filled with this sort of person, I was friends with many of them...  
 
I would be willing to bet that there are FAR more of example B than example A people working entry level jobs, I know a few myself.
 
I avoid Facebook, except for checking out fishing reports...  I was into it for a little and have seen where most of my HS class mates are now.  I went to a public school and was not a very good student.  I spent far more time in the principal's office (mostly for sleeping in class) than the guidance counselor's office reviewing my future (living life as an Example B).  I graduated in the bottom 1/3 of my class.  Of that bottom 1/3, I'd say about 5 kids that would fit in example A for faculties.  One is currently making more than me in the mill...  There were FAR more that fell into the example B and many were in the top 1/3 of students.  I had a few entry level jobs in HS and college.  Seeing first hand some of the 30-40+ year old people that were otherwise smart people when you talked to them, many fit that example B and others just seemed to have no ambition (maybe were in a band or other dream that the entry level job was supporting).  Seeing that was enough of a wake up call to me to get my head out of my rear.  I can only recall maybe 2-3 people that I have ever worked with in entry level jobs that fit the faculties argument.  That is hundreds of people that I had worked with at about 10 different places.  I am sure a few had some health or support system issues that I wasn't aware of.  Most people that I worked those positions with were very open in saying they were temporary jobs until they could find something better.
PaYakr
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Re: Give me all your moneys 2021/02/09 15:08:24 (permalink)
History lessons aside, minimum wage will never be a livable wage, whether you believe it's not meant to be, was supposed to be, is an employer's responsibility to make it be, or is our government's duty to make it be is completely irrelevant.  They can raise it to whatever they like.  The economy will eventually adjust itself back to where we are now, and those cheering their $15 an hour salary tomorrow will be back in the county assistance office in a year to two, but not before putting a lot of people out of work, and companies out of business.  Though I agree, the dems will spin it like it was one of the greatest achievements of Biden's presidency, just like obamacare was spun as a great success, and all the negative repercussions will somehow be the republican's fault.
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