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Porktown
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/10 16:44:55 (permalink)
Good stuff R2.
 
The thought that you have put in (again, likely taking way more time than you wanted) has my eyes open to the models being flawed (along with your other posts on the subject).  I have been one that has put a lot of blind faith in Fauci and Birx, and definitely questioning my decision in that at the moment.  I think you had noted it a while back or others have stated it, I have no questions that he/she are experts on what they do and smart people.  But for the models that we shut down the economy over, to be as far off as they were, needs to be discussed on a national level and soon.  I agree they will change with people's actions.  Instead of trying to fudge numbers to try to look better, they need to accept they made mistakes and get us on a path to reopening our country.  Get a plan in place now, to have us open to 80% or so as soon as possible, without it looking like a complete relapse.
 
I think Trump's handling comes down to his lack of any sort of interest in public health (which is not a good thing as being a President).  And I will give him some benefit of the doubt that he may be doing other things behind the scenes that are beneficial.  Although I do think most of the behind the scenes stuff is more Pence and other advisers.  I think Trump is there to sign stuff, rah rah at rallies and talk negatively about Democrats and media, beyond that I don't think he does much, besides golf and bang porn stars (which is not an insult).  Now that there is an economic task force, shift over to what he has proven to at least have interest in (although not in rebuilding).  If he is still as visibly incompetent with that portion, we are in trouble.  Not sure if at that point, Pence and crew will be able to cover everything.  
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/10 17:30:54 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby rsquared 2020/04/10 18:20:30
Trump is his own worst enemy in that he does not use, to his advantage, (numerous) speech writers and teleprompters.

Trump promised to be transparent and in keeping that promise, opens the door for every anti-America journalist to twist his words and constantly play gotcha games.

Trump also gives oportunity to anti-America media gotcha games by allowing his cabinet members, and other experts, freedom to stand and take questions.

So IMHO Trump gets what he asked for.... 24/7 badgering and gloating.

However, Trump doesn't tuck tail and run. Trump fights back and that's why "I" did vote for him and will again in 2020.

Mike Pence is a good VP. Pence knows his place and Trump trust Pence to carry out duties, as may be delegated.

In short, I didn't vote for Trump because he is a smooth talking politician. I voted for Trump because he made promises I liked. I will vote for Trump again because he "is" keeping promises.

Given everything thrown at Trump and yet seeing how he has cleared all those hurtles, Trump is the most successful POTUS in the past 50 years. Like the Energizer Bunny.... Trump just keeps going and GOING and.....

Welp, in closing let me just say this. For those who have (for a lack of a better word) dispised Trump for getting elected or for those who just enjoy his stumbles, as a means to throw mud at Trumps supporters, cherish the moment.

This Corona issue will soon come to an end but all y'all is about to be faced, with another four years of Trump.

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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ICE NUT
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/10 17:38:32 (permalink)
Well maybe just maybe but unlikely you all will get Joe Biden the savior of all things.Im sure he will bring in the most competent compassionate intelligent people like some on here that know all and have the answers to our problems.He may even bring in some of the wonderful folks from the previous disaster administration.
 I can hardly wait to see joe's daily briefings even the sniffing hair its gona be like comedy centralLOL
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/10 17:43:41 (permalink)
Haha, yeah, I know I've hinted around at Bill Gates' motives in funding this model and his connections with Birx and Fauci.  I put on my tinfoil hat when I do that though.  
 
Another point that I think are very important to note.  
 
New York City specifically, and New York state and northern Jersey to a little lesser extent, are absolutely getting hammered by this thing.  As I said initially, this UW model relied heavily on taking what was happening in NYC and projecting it to the rest of the country.  I made the point somewhere that to reach the 100-240K death toll, that what happens in NYC would have to happen in 15-30 other US cities, and that was with a guesstimate of 7-10K deaths there.  It tragically looks like NYC will probably surpass that, but thank God nowhere else in the US has come close it.  But that's important to keep in mind - the NYC metro area and a little beyond that will probably account for about 1/4 to 1/3 of the total death toll from this.  Just a week ago, it was over 1/2.  
 
 
In Trump's defense, I do think that the mainstream media outlets are so antagonistic towards him that no matter what he says or does, they'd never report positively on it.  I've long maintained even before this that news media thrives on panic and fear - no matter what their political views.  If sunshine, rainbows, lollipops and puppies got more clicks and more eyeballs on TV sets, that's what they'd be pushing.  
 
I would imagine even if somebody like Pence became the national voice and face of this, it'd be more of the same.  Maybe a little less direct antagonism, but still lots of negativity.  
 
Man, I saw some wild stuff that came out yesterday from Robert Kennedy Jr about Bill Gates and WHO.  And that's the only adjective I can think of: wild.  Kennedy is the most rabid anti vaxxer out there, and is out there in a lot of his other ideas.  There are some claims he makes that look they could be verified OR refuted with some deeper sleuthing, so I'm definitely NOT saying these claims are true or close to true.  Google searches get you basically nothing to either refute or verify some of the things that could be verified or refuted.  But if anybody wants to do some fact checking, knock yourself out.  
 
Vaccines, for Bill Gates, are a strategic philanthropy that feed his many vaccine-related businesses (including Microsoft’s ambition to control a global vac ID enterprise) and give him dictatorial control over global health policy—the spear tip of corporate neo-imperialism.  (Definitely unverified opinion!)

Promising to eradicate Polio with $1.2 billion, Gates took control of India ‘s National Advisory Board (NAB) and mandated 50 polio vaccines (up from 5) to every child before age 5. Indian doctors blame the Gates campaign for a devastating vaccine-strain polio epidemic that paralyzed 496,000 children between 2000 and 2017. In 2017, the Indian Government dialed back Gates’ vaccine regimen and evicted Gates and his cronies from the NAB. Polio paralysis rates dropped precipitously. In 2017, the World Health Organization reluctantly admitted that the global polio explosion is predominantly vaccine strain, meaning it is coming from Gates’ Vaccine Program. The most frightening epidemics in Congo, the Philippines, and Afghanistan are all linked to Gates’ vaccines. By 2018, ¾ of global polio cases were from Gates’ vaccines. 

In 2014, the Gates Foundation funded tests of experimental HPV vaccines, developed by GSK and Merck, on 23,000 young girls in remote Indian provinces. Approximately 1,200 suffered severe side effects, including autoimmune and fertility disorders. Seven died. Indian government investigations charged that Gates funded researchers committed pervasive ethical violations: pressuring vulnerable village girls into the trial, bullying parents, forging consent forms, and refusing medical care to the injured girls. The case is now in the country’s Supreme Court. 

In 2010, the Gates Foundation funded a trial of a GSK’s experimental malaria vaccine, killing 151 African infants and causing serious adverse effects including paralysis, seizure, and febrile convulsions to 1,048 of the 5,049 children. …
 
During Gates' 2002 MenAfriVac campaign in Sub-Saharan Africa, Gates operatives forcibly vaccinated thousands of African children against meningitis.  Between 50 and 500 developed paralysis.  Nelson Mandela's former Senior Economist, Professor Patrick Bond, describes Gates' philanthropic practices as "ruthless and immoral."  
 
In 2010, Gates committed $10 billion to the WHO (this part is true) promising to reduce population, in part, through new vaccines (this part is definitely out of context from what I could find - he does favor global population control but has not specifically tied it to his vaccine programs).  In 2014, Kenya's Catholic Doctors Association accused the WHO of chemically sterilizing millions of unwilling Kenyan women with a phony tetanus vaccine campaign.  Independent labs found the sterility formula in ever vaccine tested (do note that it doesn't say if they tested 5 or 5000).  After denying the charges WHO finally admitted it had been developing the sterility vaccines for over a decade.  Similar accusations came from Tanzania, Nicaragua, Mexico and the Phillipines.  
Porktown
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/10 20:15:44 (permalink)
ICE NUT
Well maybe just maybe but unlikely you all will get Joe Biden the savior of all things.Im sure he will bring in the most competent compassionate intelligent people like some on here that know all and have the answers to our problems.He may even bring in some of the wonderful folks from the previous disaster administration.
 I can hardly wait to see joe's daily briefings even the sniffing hair its gona be like comedy centralLOL

Although I think Joe would do better in this phase than Trump, at least showing compassion while in a health crisis, his strength is clearly not public speaking. He was in charge of the Obamacare debacle, which was a failure, but I do think that he felt it was doing something for a large chunk of people for healthcare. I would say, unlike Trump, healthcare is at least something that interests him and something he would be passionate about. Whether the policy was to your or my liking is a different story. But to me, that showing there is care and thought behind it I think would have Joe rivaling Pence and Cuomo, in this stage. That said, the guy is an admitted stutterer and has other public speaking issues, as well as being creepy. Honestly, not sure how he ever came up with wanting to be President, even in his prime.

The recovery portion, which will be underway by the time he would be in office, is debatable. I think Obama put out a decent roadmap of a slow but steady recovery. Trump goes big. But does that work on a recovery? He started with a stable economy that was ready to take that next step that he got it to. There is no way that this just goes right back to where it was. The economy could be 1930s looking by November. Regardless of how it happened, you can’t force every company to reopen and rehire everyone and have those people forget about however many months they were collecting unemployment and sitting in 3 hour long food lines, to suddenly start spending like crazy. There is going to be a whole new generation of savers. Those that will make sure they have a nest egg instead of buying useless junk. Which is what our economy was running a large part on.
eyesandgillz
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/11 09:14:21 (permalink)
Update on serological (antibody) testing: 
http://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/04/stanford-medicine-develops-antibody-test-for-coronavirus.html
 
More evidence that coronavirus is more widespread than confirmed testing shows (mortality much likely to be much lower, overall):
 
https://www.newsweek.com/...igher-expected-1497141
DarDys
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/11 09:39:19 (permalink)
^^^

Thank you for the new information.

As I wrote, I don’t watch it religiously, but every time I caught the news, the numbers were the same. I have far better things to do than keep abreast of the virus score like it is a sporting event.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
EMitch
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/11 09:51:12 (permalink)
Porktown

Although I think Joe would do better in this phase than Trump, at least showing compassion while in a health crisis, his strength is clearly not public speaking. 



C'mon, Porktown. Have you really been watching this guy? Not only can he not speak (intelligently) in public, he don't even know where he's at half the time. A high school senior on a Liberal Arts course would probably do better.

For Liberals, whenever reality conflicts with ideology, it is reality that must change.
Porktown
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/11 10:25:29 (permalink)
EMitch
Porktown

Although I think Joe would do better in this phase than Trump, at least showing compassion while in a health crisis, his strength is clearly not public speaking. 



C'mon, Porktown. Have you really been watching this guy? Not only can he not speak (intelligently) in public, he don't even know where he's at half the time. A high school senior on a Liberal Arts course would probably do better.

Yes I have. He sounds twice as intelligent as Trump. No doubt he fumbles in public speaking. But that argument goes away when in comparison to Trump. If you are comparing to Pence, definitely.
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/11 10:49:06 (permalink)
C mon man.... cut Uncle Joe a break (🤔brake).

"Uncle Joe" don't know who he told what, where or when. Than (🤔then) there is his old boss who won't recommend (except; ya don't have to do this) Joe. 👀

To boot, "Uncle Joe" be lookin like he may be getting (more) paranoid the closer the convention gets. I betcha, Joe be seein new beginnings, at the end of his political career.

"Uncle Joe" surely be thinkin what he be doing, in his upcoming retirement. 🤔Witness protection plan maybe?


I can't help but be thinkin, is "Uncle Joe" planning a "Romney" in the very near future??
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2020/04/11 11:06:56

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ICE NUT
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/11 11:24:46 (permalink)
We keep hearing from our liberal or independent posters on here about all these intelligent people that would do such a wonderful job handling this crisis BUT I haven't seen any names.This is a crisis the entire world is suffering thru so your telling me some career political hack who's been in government his entire life and hasn't done a darn thing is going to save the world. Watch the new biden commercial how he is going to be better prepared Really you mean like the Obama care rollout, keep your doctor thingy,and how about the HN1N flue that tore thru country. How about bengazi? Please tell us who you think can handle this any better ENLIGHTEN us.
r3g3
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/11 11:37:05 (permalink)
Just jump for joy that their last  first best choice Hillary isn't in charge
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/11 12:31:43 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Fisherlady2 2020/04/11 13:13:08
ICE NUT
We keep hearing from our liberal or independent posters on here about all these intelligent people that would do such a wonderful job handling this crisis BUT I haven't seen any names.This is a crisis the entire world is suffering thru so your telling me some career political hack who's been in government his entire life and hasn't done a darn thing is going to save the world. Watch the new biden commercial how he is going to be better prepared Really you mean like the Obama care rollout, keep your doctor thingy,and how about the HN1N flue that tore thru country. How about bengazi? Please tell us who you think can handle this any better ENLIGHTEN us.




I'm not really an independent, and definitely not a liberal.  Other than when I voted for the LATE Bob Casey, I have never voted for anyone other than a Republican in a state or federal race.  
 
I've said twice in this thread that I think Mike Pence would do a fantastic job right now.  The few chances he has had to speak in the past few weeks, he's got the poise, reason and compassion of somebody who seems very capable to lead through this.  
 
I voted for Trump, despite the personality stuff I didn't like, hoping it would change.  It hasn't.  If one of those pollsters ever called me and said "Do you approve or disapprove of President Trump," it'd be a no brainer approval vote for me.  Most of what he's done policy wise has been what I've expected he'd do, and I'm thankful he's done it.  
 
I get why he typically does what he does, and to some extent it makes me laugh a little.  He loves the battle with the media, that as I said above, would find something to criticize no matter what he does in this situation.  He could announce a cure's been found tomorrow - 100% fool proof cure - and the media would find something to criticize.  In that regard, he's in a danged if he does, danged if he doesn't situation.  
 
Just like I said in my post yesterday caring about the broader impact of the policies enacted in regards to what we're dealing with now does not negate the fact that I also care about keeping people from dying and getting sick, whether individuals or health care workers.  Similarly, I think I can say that overall, I approve of Trump's presidency, but that I think on this he's made some significant mistakes in his handling of this situation.  
 
This is one time though where I think that it's time to stop all of this.  He can answer the media forthrightly and point out their lies and hypocrisy without stooping to their level.  He can cite progress and accomplishments without comparing his press conference ratings to The Bachelor.  That's the stuff I find embarrassing.  But for whatever reason, he just can't help himself.  I mean seriously, just once, don't take the bait and be a leader.  Although I was just a little bugger when Reagan was president, reading about him and seeing clips of him speaking, he was excellent at this.  On point.  Address lies and misinformation.  Sell the vision for how we move forward.    
 
I certainly don't wish that right now HillaryBernieJoe was leading the US through this.  Despite the fact that the federal response was ill prepared at first; that he's needed to shut up Fauci and Birx for a few weeks and hasn't; and the fact that I don't like how he speaks publicly on this (and don't have the confidence that he could even if he wanted to) I like his shift over the past three or four days to focusing on developing a team to get America back to work.  I think that's in his wheelhouse and that's where his focus should be.  He might have compassion for people, but he doesn't do a good job of expressing it or displaying it.  Say what you want about their politics, but Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama were good at that.  I loathed Obama's politics, but even he could dial back the rhetoric when needed and act compassionate for awhile.    
 
You see, a truly great leader realizes when he's outside of his realm of competency or expertise, and for Trump, it's speaking publicly on this.  When a great leader realizes that, he or she will look to promote and build up those around them who can not only fill the void, but take the overall leadership team to new levels of success.  That's all that Trump needs to do here.  Answer a few questions, read a few talking points, and then turn things over to Pence.  Pence is a very honorable man, and seems very humble.  I don't think he's going to undermine or upstage Trump in any way.  It's a win/win for Amercia right now.  
 
 
ICE NUT
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/11 13:02:15 (permalink)
Agree with a lot you have to say but I still haven't seen any names brought up from others of whom going to do a better job? any democrats and please dont't say Cuomo.I don't  believe any one in this world would be able to handle this pandemic totally correctly without making some miscalls. I think we should give the people who are trying their best with what they know about this virus the benefit of a doubt.Let the dying stop and the economy to come back up then continue to do the political blame game. If ya don't like how it all shapes up well in November you know what to do.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/11 13:29:41 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby rsquared 2020/04/11 13:49:01
Every successful commedian has learned, "timing is of utter importance". Therein lies the problem, with President Trump.

He doesn't realize when it's "time" to shut up.

There I said it.... all y'all happy now? 🙈
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2020/04/11 13:37:38

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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/11 13:53:35 (permalink)
I don't want him to shut up I want him to rip those useless reporters or so called journalists,call a spade a spade. He didn't get elected because he was a nice pleasant soft spoken,compassionate individual he got elected to get things done! No one could have predicted this virus would do this to the entire world.And please I really don't want to hear about his morals there hasn't been a moral president since maybe jimmy carter.Most have been swines in their own right.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/11 14:14:47 (permalink)
Again, ya cant make it up
Feinstein and Biden want Trump to OK  5 billion to Iran from another entity.
They say Iran needs it to fight 19.
 Wellll-- we all know what those Dems gave Iran last time they had a chance, and we all know what Iran did with it--and it wasn't public  assistance, it was used for insurgencies fighting OUR soldiers.
 
Keep up the socialist anti American loving giveaways you idiots--   TRUMP 2020.
post edited by r3g3 - 2020/04/11 17:32:08
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/11 14:39:47 (permalink)
Feinstein 🤔 do I hear🕵 Chinese spy?? 👁

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/11 14:54:12 (permalink)
BeenThereDoneThat.
Feinstein 🤔 do I hear🕵 Chinese spy?? 👁



Feinstein, who serves as ranking member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, and her husband sold between $1.5 million and $6 million in stock in California biotech company Allogene Therapeutics, between Jan. 31 and Feb. 18, The New York Times reported.

😳Hhhh buttt we hear largely of Senator Burr and Loeffler.....

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/11 14:57:37 (permalink)
r3g3
Again, ya cant make it up
Feinstein and Biden want Trump to OK  5 billion to Iran from another entity.
They say Iran needs it to fight 19.
 



Yep! That's about it. Maybe $100 million for internal use and the other $4.9 billion for investment into the nuclear weapon program and to continue their global terrorism.

For Liberals, whenever reality conflicts with ideology, it is reality that must change.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/11 15:26:35 (permalink)
here we go again --stuff--
 
REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT
 
Article about what to do if the alarm goes off and ya gotta run to the Tornado shelter- or not because of 19.
 
Why bother going into the particulars-
 
CLEARLY  on all of our minds.
 
Right up there with a  Tiger in a Zoo caught it too.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/11 17:15:21 (permalink)
Must be hard coming up with some names of the intelligent,compassionate honest soft spoken folks who really know best how to solve all the countries problems.There's a lot of opinions on this forum I just want to know whom of the one person running against the present POTUS is going to do any better considering he's been in government for over 40 years and hasn't done a thing.
 
JM2
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/11 18:38:31 (permalink)
When choosing a doctor, I would rather have one with great bedside manner and suspect skills and ability, over one with proven skills and abilities, and poor bedside manner. When choosing between the two, I always go with proven incompetence especially if he talks nice.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/11 21:37:02 (permalink)
Soooo guys and gals.... short of the FDA getting off it's dead asz regarding the approval of hydroxychloroquine as a "treatment" and "prophylaxis" for Covid19. Yet keeping in mind more and more positive results from use of the drug are being reported.

When should Trump begin putting our country back to work?
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2020/04/11 21:54:54

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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BloodyHand
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/11 22:26:16 (permalink)
BeenThereDoneThat.

When should Trump begin putting our country back to work?

May 1st.
 
BH
post edited by BloodyHand - 2020/04/11 22:39:07
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/11 22:48:55 (permalink)
I'm not sure it's Trump's call. It's more of a State's decision. That being said, some states should start getting back to work this coming Monday. Others maybe May 1st, and there are others where it's still up in the air at this point. I think CA extended there shutdown till May 15th. 
Edit: It was LA county that extended till 5/15.
post edited by JM2 - 2020/04/11 23:08:40
BloodyHand
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/11 23:11:01 (permalink)
I hope they dont try some......you gotta be sereologically ( if thats a word ) cleared before they will allow peeps back to work. Than more panic. We need umpteen bazillions of dollars to get testing to get our state back to work.
 
BH
 
#dontgetsuckedin
post edited by BloodyHand - 2020/04/11 23:12:25
EMitch
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/12 08:43:20 (permalink)
The way I look at it, regardless when the state allows people to return to work, they should not be allowed until we have millions and millions of test kits available, and each individual must test free and/or over the virus before being cleared. In fact, as a prerequisite, the employer should demand a doctor's excuse and test results before resuming work. I know that employers will be chompin' at the bit to get up and running again, but it's obvious what the prudent practice should be considering the contagion of this disease. Ya can't throw all the suffering away just to do it again in a couple of months 'cause we went back too early.

For Liberals, whenever reality conflicts with ideology, it is reality that must change.
r3g3
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/12 09:41:04 (permalink)
That test/work scenario might seem to be the way its gonna roll out.
Would be the prudent way to go IMHO- especially as the kits become more available with on the spot diagnosis.
Bring the result to work and go to work.
For a time -at least- it would be the way to go.
 
Frankly if a dining establishment went so far as to have customers bring in a similar OK slip -along with all employees-it would make them the most popular safest place in town.
BloodyHand
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/12 09:44:16 (permalink)
Headline reads, " Federal Govt. eager to get Americans back to work. States dont have enough test kits and only the wealthy and health care workers getting tested. "
 
BH
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