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fishin coyote
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/01 14:43:21 (permalink)
 Covid is not the reason hospitals are at capacity although it isn't helping. Capacity is based on nurses not beds. If you don't have enough nurses to cover patients then your at capacity. This country has and has had for sometime a nursing shortage.   
 
As far as herd immunity I think it's a pipe dream although I hope I'm wrong on that. 

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Porktown
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/01 15:19:19 (permalink)
fishin coyote
 Covid is not the reason hospitals are at capacity although it isn't helping. Capacity is based on nurses not beds. If you don't have enough nurses to cover patients then your at capacity. This country has and has had for sometime a nursing shortage.   
 
As far as herd immunity I think it's a pipe dream although I hope I'm wrong on that. 


Covid is a huge reason for current nursing shortages.  No doubt there have been shortages for other reasons prior (fair pay for the stress of what they do likely high on the list).  That disparity of pay to stress with covid is now tenfold.  I'd personally need about $250K per year to risk my life in a Covid ward, working 80-90 hours per week.  90% of the patients could have avoided putting those nurses and other hospital staff in that situation with a vaccine. 
 
It is to the point now, where it is just disrespectful to those working in hospitals to not be vaccinated (unless you tested positive and recovered).  Kind of makes me feel even stronger about hospitals to refuse those people.  
eyesandgillz
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/02 09:44:13 (permalink)
Best article yet, and very encouraging, re: Fluvoxamine to treat Covid-19.  Preliminary results from a large, robust clinical trial are very positive.  I know if I get diagnosed with Covid or know someone close who does, and esp. if they are at-risk, I would be asking my PCP for an "off-label" prescription of this.  
 
Bonus is it is generic, cheap, widely available across the world, and pretty darn safe with not many side effects noted.  
 
https://www.vox.com/futur...ogether-study-mcmaster
r3g3
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/02 13:59:02 (permalink)
Some top CDC folks quitting because of moves that Dr Joe Biden is making without their OK- booster shots seem to be high on their list.
I have been reading about them and was more than ready for that booster- but now hearing it was all about Dr Joe W/O cdc's blessing I gotta sit back and reconsider.
EMitch
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/03 10:04:17 (permalink)
Who can you believe about the virus? One group is sayin' Moderna is 80% reliable while Pfizer is only 40% effective, another group says they're both effective, yet the anti-bodies in both are said to be depleted in 6 months or less. And WTF? about Moderna. The Japanese had to ****tcan 1.2 million doses due to contamination, now they've found another 1/2 million or more contaminated with black specs. The doctors recommending other enhancement drugs that are cheap and plentiful, (even the Cleveland Clinic) get blackballed from the news and social media, yet they tout the President's recommendation of a 3rd (booster) shot without the consent or approval of the CDC? Is Doctor Joe following the science? 400 thousand Americans died with Trump as President; now another 240 thousand since January. Joe owns those deaths 'cause he said he was gonna stop it.Now we have a new variant: MU or some such. The whole situation is a clusterfock. This virus is gonna be around for some time.

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MyWar
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/03 10:31:56 (permalink)
EMitch
Who can you believe about the virus? One group is sayin' Moderna is 80% reliable while Pfizer is only 40% effective, another group says they're both effective, yet the anti-bodies in both are said to be depleted in 6 months or less. And WTF? about Moderna. The Japanese had to ****tcan 1.2 million doses due to contamination, now they've found another 1/2 million or more contaminated with black specs. The doctors recommending other enhancement drugs that are cheap and plentiful, (even the Cleveland Clinic) get blackballed from the news and social media, yet they tout the President's recommendation of a 3rd (booster) shot without the consent or approval of the CDC? Is Doctor Joe following the science? 400 thousand Americans died with Trump as President; now another 240 thousand since January. Joe owns those deaths 'cause he said he was gonna stop it.Now we have a new variant: MU or some such. The whole situation is a clusterfock. This virus is gonna be around for some time.


Sure bud. You’re better off listening to people like Joe Rogan and Sebastian Gorka. Just grab some of that horse de-wormer from Tractor Supply.

On the other hand, the overwhelming majority of doctors and medical professionals are saying that all of the available vaccines are safe and effective. But I’m sure the people that spent decades or their professional lives studying medicine don’t know what they are taking about.
snagr
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/03 11:56:10 (permalink)
MyWar
Just grab some of that horse de-wormer from Tractor Supply.




https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8383101/


 
This is from the National Institutes of Health.  While there are still questions about its efficacy in treating Covid, the two men who discovered its effectiveness in treating parasites were awarded the Nobel Prize for medicine in 2015.  It has an excellent safety profile in humans and has been administered billions of times globally.  
 
 
 
Porktown
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/03 13:09:39 (permalink)
Porktown
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/03 14:25:34 (permalink)
snagr

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8383101/


 
This is from the National Institutes of Health.  While there are still questions about its efficacy in treating Covid, the two men who discovered its effectiveness in treating parasites were awarded the Nobel Prize for medicine in 2015.  It has an excellent safety profile in humans and has been administered billions of times globally.  
 


This seems more like a study written to justify having a clinical trial for the FDA to review?  It sounds like an amazing drug for parasites and other that is has been proven effective against.  As for Covid, the numbers they reference don't sound all that amazing.  Stopping 53% of "excess" deaths vs. 25% of "excess" deaths with no treatment. Better than nothing, is really what that amounts to.  Finding a generic drug that is safe (if used as prescribed and not going to the vet and guessing), would be a great break through and I hope they find one.
 
To me, this sounds much like hydroxychloroquine and Fluvoxamine.  Seems to work for some in treating mild cases, others it has no effects.  Seems to work amazing in small trials, when put in large clinical trials, there seems to be maybe some positive effects.  Maybe this could be used in a "cocktail" of other medications?  Obviously controlled by scientists in a lab first.  I could see all of these drugs, or at least components of all of these drugs being used in some sort of cocktail drug.  All seem to have at least some effect.  Not sure if they would interact with each other or not?  I haven't heard much more about that drug that is used to slow down cytokine storms.  I thought that one would have really been the breakthrough.  It might be used in some patients?  Maybe it is part of a cocktail that is effective.  As of right now, I think the Regeneron cocktail is the only thing that the FDA has approved as effective and still not a "cure".


post edited by Porktown - 2021/09/03 14:41:48
MyWar
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/03 14:51:19 (permalink)
snagr
MyWar
Just grab some of that horse de-wormer from Tractor Supply.




https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8383101/


 
This is from the National Institutes of Health.  While there are still questions about its efficacy in treating Covid, the two men who discovered its effectiveness in treating parasites were awarded the Nobel Prize for medicine in 2015.  It has an excellent safety profile in humans and has been administered billions of times globally.  
 
 
 


Oh look, I guess you can add “random guy on a fishing message board” to the list of Big Brains.

So this is all the the evidence you need to know that ivermectin is a safe and effective treatment huh? But the mountains of data and evidence (which dwarf the studies in your link) that indicate all of the vaccines are safe and effective, that just isn’t enough for you.

Tens of millions of people worldwide have been vaccinated, why aren’t hospitals filling up with people who are experiencing horrible side effects from these dangerous vaccines? Why are the hospitals filling up instead with the Big Brains who think they know better, and didn’t get vaccinated?

And why are we seeing reports like this instead?

https://kfor.com/news/loc...-hospitals-ambulances/

Perhaps it’s because the Big Brains should leave the medical advice to the doctors and medical professionals, because spreading bad medical advice based on pseudoscience and bullsh1tt is dangerous and it results in people getting sick.
snagr
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/03 15:15:28 (permalink)
Don’t believe I’ve ever advocated for IVM as a Covid treatment here or anywhere else.

Just pointing out that it’s more than horse meds and has worked well and safely for its intended purpose.
post edited by snagr - 2021/09/03 18:18:01
MyWar
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/03 20:19:05 (permalink)
snagr
Just pointing out that it’s more than horse meds and has worked well and safely for its intended purpose.


Sure, just like you post pages and pages of anti vaxxer nonsense and then say “but I’m not anti vax”. I’m sorry, but your intention is pretty clear.

The reason it’s dangerous for people like you to run around giving medical advice is because you aren’t a doctor. And the people that might listen to you are liable to do stupid things like take the dosage that’s meant for a horse.

Also here are the trials, linked from the FDA’s website. The results are not clear.

https://www.clinicaltrial...ist=&Search=Search

https://www.fda.gov/consu...at-or-prevent-covid-19
post edited by MyWar - 2021/09/03 20:24:26
r3g3
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/03 21:13:34 (permalink)
Good point on the millions of vacs given and little to none of those commonly predicted horror stories
 
at 74 I'll pay little attention to 'long term' issues even if some do come up 
snagr
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/04 09:59:31 (permalink)
MyWar
snagr
Just pointing out that it’s more than horse meds and has worked well and safely for its intended purpose.


Sure, just like you post pages and pages of anti vaxxer nonsense and then say “but I’m not anti vax”. I’m sorry, but your intention is pretty clear.

The reason it’s dangerous for people like you to run around giving medical advice is because you aren’t a doctor. And the people that might listen to you are liable to do stupid things like take the dosage that’s meant for a horse.

Also here are the trials, linked from the FDA’s website. The results are not clear.

https://www.clinicaltrial...ist=&Search=Search

https://www.fda.gov/consu...at-or-prevent-covid-19


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Porktown
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/04 13:03:38 (permalink)
Photoshopped. Can tell by the white lines.
snagr
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/04 22:16:24 (permalink)
MyWar




And why are we seeing reports like this instead?

https://kfor.com/news/loc...-hospitals-ambulances/




Fake news

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https://nhssequoyah.com/

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DeadGator401
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/05 02:46:31 (permalink)
r3g3
Good point on the millions of vacs given and little to none of those commonly predicted horror stories
 
at 74 I'll pay little attention to 'long term' issues even if some do come up 



It's even more man. According to Google, Worldwide we're at 5.44 BILLION doses administered of the Covid Vaccines in general, and 2.17 BILLION are fully vaccinated. 

Here's a pretty cool dashboard that shows the info: https://news.google.com/covid19/map?hl=en-US&state=7&mid=%2Fm%2F02j71&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen
You can click on each country on the map for more information.



Fisherlady2
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/05 08:18:30 (permalink)
snagr
MyWar




And why are we seeing reports like this instead?

https://kfor.com/news/loc...-hospitals-ambulances/




Fake news



https://nhssequoyah.com/


The hospital statement is from northeastern, the doc statement is from southeastern, and doesn't mention an actual facility name. Is it possible the doctor is referring to another facility altogether (sounds like he is a rent-a-doc who works shifts in numerous facilities)? If so, then the hospital statement is not proof of fake news, just a facility clarifying that it is not the one mentioned in the story.
snagr
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/05 09:12:57 (permalink)
Fisherlady2
snagr
MyWar




And why are we seeing reports like this instead?

https://kfor.com/news/loc...-hospitals-ambulances/




Fake news



https://nhssequoyah.com/


The hospital statement is from northeastern, the doc statement is from southeastern, and doesn't mention an actual facility name. Is it possible the doctor is referring to another facility altogether (sounds like he is a rent-a-doc who works shifts in numerous facilities)? If so, then the hospital statement is not proof of fake news, just a facility clarifying that it is not the one mentioned in the story.



https://www.ouhealth.com/...oison-center-increase/
 
 
“Since the beginning of May, we’ve received reports of 11 people being exposed to ivermectin. Most developed relatively minor symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and dizziness, though there’s the potential for more serious effects including low blood pressure and seizures with an overdose, as well as interactions with medications such as blood thinners,” said Scott Schaeffer, managing director of the Oklahoma Center for Poison and Drug Information.
MyWar
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/05 11:33:42 (permalink)
I wouldn’t doubt that some of the reports about ivermectin overdoses are exaggerated or sensationalized. But clearly ivermectin overdoses ARE happening, and even if ivermectin ODs aren’t clogging up ERs the report posted above cites 11 overdose in rural OK.

So think about 11 overdose cases in a rural Oklahoma healthcare system, a healthcare system which is likely already under stress due to covid.

First of all I’d say it’s reasonable to conclude that such an easily avoidable, unnecessary stress is an unwanted outcome. Correct?

Second, what do you think the ratio is, of people who try horse meds vs people who overdose on horse meds. Does 11 ODs in sparsely populated rural OK seem high? I mean surely there can’t be that many people dumb enough to even do it in the first place, right? So what is an acceptable rate of OD? 10%? 5%? 1%%?

If we were to judge it by the same standards that we use for covid vaccine complications then it would have to be in the range of 2-5 per million for anaphylaxis, 44 per 14 million for thrombosis, 176 per 14 million for GBS, etc… So I think it’s fair to say that tens of millions of people in rural OK aren’t messing around with horse meds, so therefore horse meds are FAR more dangerous than the vaccine, are we in agreement so far?

So then, if you run around promoting a message such as “ivermectin is legit!” which could result in the (admittedly unintended) consequence of people taking horse dewormer and getting sick… while simultaneously preaching a bunch of anti vaxxer BS about a vaccine which is many many many orders of magnitude safer (not to mention that the data pertaining to human doses of ivermectin efficacy is miniscule in comparison to the data on the vaccines)… Does that seem like a logical, well-reasoned, position to take?

I think it is not. In fact I think it’s dangerous and stupid to run around propping up unproven, dangerous medications like ivermectin while simultaneously denigrating a vaccine which in comparison has an enormous amount of data indicating safety and efficacy.

If there is some hole in my logic, please point it out me.
post edited by MyWar - 2021/09/05 11:35:53
r3g3
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/05 14:53:27 (permalink)
Agree
eyesandgillz
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/05 16:10:56 (permalink)
Ivermectin dangerous?   Really?  Used for billions of doses over decades?  Now who is exaggerating.  Ivermectin, used as prescribed by a doctor in normal dosages is very safe.  NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE on this forum is advocating for someone to go out and buy TSC Ivec and use that and you know that to be true. 
 
 
r3g3
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/05 16:38:38 (permalink)
-, 
post edited by r3g3 - 2021/09/05 17:03:28
MyWar
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/05 20:30:50 (permalink)
eyesandgillz
Ivermectin dangerous?   Really?  Used for billions of doses over decades? 


I didn’t say ivermectin was dangerous. I said it was dangerous for people who aren’t doctors to pretend like they are some kind of
authority on the matter.


eyesandgillz
Ivermectin, used as prescribed by a doctor in normal dosages is very safe.  NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE on this forum is advocating for someone to go out and buy TSC Ivec and use that


And yet clearly it is happening. People are getting dumb ideas in their heads and overdosing on horse meds. These same people are probably also refusing to take a vaccine which has also been administered safely billions of times with no ill effects.

So why do you think this is happening?

Maybe it’s because people with no medical training are running around saying things like: “WeLl acKShully IVermEctin is Blah BLah bLAh…”?

And furthermore even if ivermectin is safe, when prescribed by a doctor for the treatment of a PARASITIC INFECTION, there is not sufficient evidence to indicate widespread use for covid, especially when there are MUCH better treatments available, the most notable one being A VACCINE.

I am also saying that it is illogical pseudo scientific BS to amplify the minuscule amount of data that suggests ivermectin is in any way effective against covid, while at the same time downplaying the overwhelming evidence which indicates that the vaccines (not to mention masks) are safe and effective. Nobody that would make such an argument is basing it on real science, because REAL science suggests the complete opposite.

Is my position clear enough now? Or do you want to try to straw man some more?
DeadGator401
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/05 22:48:21 (permalink)
I wish that Ivermectin was proven to be an effective treatment for Covid, in a safe dose. It'd be fantastic to have that option widespread and affordable. 



EMitch
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/05 22:49:59 (permalink)
eyesandgillz 
Now who is exaggerating.  NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE on this forum is advocating for someone to go out and buy TSC Ivec and use that and you know that to be true. 




 
C'mon, eyes! You're arguing with one of the guys who still believes that Trump told people to drink Clorox!
Ya can't argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.




If you agree with the Progressive Democrats, that's freedom of speech. If you disagree, it's hate speech and racism.
Porktown
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/06 07:48:28 (permalink)
"And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful."
eyesandgillz
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/06 09:34:32 (permalink)
MyWar
eyesandgillz
Ivermectin dangerous?   Really?  Used for billions of doses over decades? 


I didn’t say ivermectin was dangerous. I said it was dangerous for people who aren’t doctors to pretend like they are some kind of
authority on the matter.


eyesandgillz
Ivermectin, used as prescribed by a doctor in normal dosages is very safe.  NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE on this forum is advocating for someone to go out and buy TSC Ivec and use that


And yet clearly it is happening. People are getting dumb ideas in their heads and overdosing on horse meds. These same people are probably also refusing to take a vaccine which has also been administered safely billions of times with no ill effects.

So why do you think this is happening?

Maybe it’s because people with no medical training are running around saying things like: “WeLl acKShully IVermEctin is Blah BLah bLAh…”?

And furthermore even if ivermectin is safe, when prescribed by a doctor for the treatment of a PARASITIC INFECTION, there is not sufficient evidence to indicate widespread use for covid, especially when there are MUCH better treatments available, the most notable one being A VACCINE.

I am also saying that it is illogical pseudo scientific BS to amplify the minuscule amount of data that suggests ivermectin is in any way effective against covid, while at the same time downplaying the overwhelming evidence which indicates that the vaccines (not to mention masks) are safe and effective. Nobody that would make such an argument is basing it on real science, because REAL science suggests the complete opposite.

Is my position clear enough now? Or do you want to try to straw man some more?



https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34145166/
MyWar
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/06 10:47:21 (permalink)
eyesandgillz
MyWar
eyesandgillz
Ivermectin dangerous?   Really?  Used for billions of doses over decades? 


I didn’t say ivermectin was dangerous. I said it was dangerous for people who aren’t doctors to pretend like they are some kind of
authority on the matter.


eyesandgillz
Ivermectin, used as prescribed by a doctor in normal dosages is very safe.  NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE on this forum is advocating for someone to go out and buy TSC Ivec and use that


And yet clearly it is happening. People are getting dumb ideas in their heads and overdosing on horse meds. These same people are probably also refusing to take a vaccine which has also been administered safely billions of times with no ill effects.

So why do you think this is happening?

Maybe it’s because people with no medical training are running around saying things like: “WeLl acKShully IVermEctin is Blah BLah bLAh…”?

And furthermore even if ivermectin is safe, when prescribed by a doctor for the treatment of a PARASITIC INFECTION, there is not sufficient evidence to indicate widespread use for covid, especially when there are MUCH better treatments available, the most notable one being A VACCINE.

I am also saying that it is illogical pseudo scientific BS to amplify the minuscule amount of data that suggests ivermectin is in any way effective against covid, while at the same time downplaying the overwhelming evidence which indicates that the vaccines (not to mention masks) are safe and effective. Nobody that would make such an argument is basing it on real science, because REAL science suggests the complete opposite.

Is my position clear enough now? Or do you want to try to straw man some more?



https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34145166/


3406 participants huh? That’s enough to convince you?

Do you know how many participants are included in clinical trials for the covid vaccines? And that’s before the vaccines are even available to the general public. We now have 6+ months of real world data with tens of billions of doses administered.

Also, would you like me to explain why a small sample of only 3400 participants that includes the following conclusion is not sufficient evidence to convince the entire worldwide medical community that ivermectin is effective?

“Conclusions: Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin.”

So my question to you is the same as the other anti vaxxer nutter: Why is this tiny study with only 3400 participants and a very weakly worded conclusion enough to convince you that ivermectin is a viable treatment, but the evidence that indicates safety and efficacy of vaccines, which in comparison is an overwhelming mountain of evidence, is insufficient for you?
Porktown
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/09/06 11:21:43 (permalink)
Don’t listen to MyWar. We all know hydrochloriquine and zinc are the cure. Deep state just hates Trump. Why do we even need a cure for a fake news virus in the first place? It is just the flu.
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