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snagr
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/06/10 17:14:38 (permalink)
Porktown
 
With the case numbers in PA dropping as the vaccination rate of adults is getting close to 70%, added to those naturally inoculated, I don't see the risk of vaccinating kids being worth it at all.  



this sentiment is really growing in the medical and scientific communities (actual boots on the ground people and not bureaucrats), especially this week.  
 
i was actually kind of surprised to see an article in this publication which i've followed off and on for a few months so strongly suggesting that we stop vaccinating healthy kids en masse.

this is the money quote:

“Returning to the discussion of the COVID-19 risk to kids (ages 0 to 12 years) right now, it's worth aggregating the best available data to date. In reviewing the medical literature and news reports, and in talking to pediatricians across the country, I am not aware of a single healthy child in the U.S. who has died of COVID-19 to date. To investigate further, my research team at Johns Hopkins partnered with FAIR health to study pediatric COVID-19 deaths using approximately half of the nation's health insurance data. We found that 100% of pediatric COVID-19 deaths were in children with a pre-existing condition, solidifying the case to vaccinate any child with a comorbidity.

Given that the risk of a healthy child dying is between zero and infinitesimally rare, it's understandable that many parents are appropriately asking, why vaccinate healthy kids at all?”

 
https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/marty-makary/93029
 
(does require you to register with an e mail address and password, but is not behind a paywall)
post edited by snagr - 2021/06/10 18:17:30
DeadGator401
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/06/11 00:22:26 (permalink)
snagr
look at these anti vaxxers from the cleveland clinic sowing further vaccine hesitancy in the u.s.  
 
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v2
 
"Conclusions Individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from COVID-19 vaccination, and vaccines can be safely prioritized to those who have not been infected before."



Be interesting to see how this affects non-Mrna vaccines. There some more in the pipeline coming that are different so actively looking forward to it. 
Also wonder when the will get peer reviewed.
eyesandgillz
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/06/11 09:35:18 (permalink)
Personally, the more I think about it, the only vaccine I am personally comfortable taking at this point so early in the process, would be a "traditional" weakened or killed virus vaccine or possibly one using VLPs.  
I don't think there are many and possibly no homegrown ones in the pipeline (not interested in any from China or Russia, that is for sure!).  So, until then, I'll remain part of the control group....
 
After a little more research:
Novavax and Sanofi's vaccines, entering Phase 3 trials, seem a little more traditional and peek my interest.  
DeadGator401
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/06/15 13:20:24 (permalink)
Novavax has a 90% efficiency during their trial. - https://ir.novavax.com/news-releases/news-release-details/novavax-covid-19-vaccine-demonstrates-90-overall-efficacy-and
Pretty great news.

Along with that, the cases continue to lower Nationwide and deaths are down as well. Vaccination rates are plateauing though, lead by lower participation in predominately southern states.
snagr
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/06/21 13:50:40 (permalink)
who would have thought that pumping millions of vaccines into a population of kids that don't need them without knowing the long term side effects might be dangerous?
 
 
 

"Children should not be vaccinated for the moment.  There is not yet enough evidence on the use of vaccines against COVID-19 in children to make recommendations for children to be vaccinated against COVID-19. Children and adolescents tend to have milder disease compared to adults. However, children should continue to have the recommended childhood vaccines."
 
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/covid-19-vaccines/advice
 
 
DeadGator401
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/06/23 01:55:22 (permalink)
snagr
who would have thought that pumping millions of vaccines into a population of kids that don't need them without knowing the long term side effects might be dangerous?

"Children should not be vaccinated for the moment.  There is not yet enough evidence on the use of vaccines against COVID-19 in children to make recommendations for children to be vaccinated against COVID-19. Children and adolescents tend to have milder disease compared to adults. However, children should continue to have the recommended childhood vaccines."

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/covid-19-vaccines/advice


I fear your quote might make it seem as if the WHO presented the vaccines as dangerous to children (under 12 years of age btw), which they didn't. I've ensured those who don't follow that link, can see the whole segment of the webpage.



"Children and adolescents tend to have milder disease compared to adults, so unless they are part of a group at higher risk of severe COVID-19, it is less urgent to vaccinate them than older people, those with chronic health conditions and health workers.   
 
More evidence is needed on the use of the different COVID-19 vaccines in children to be able to make general recommendations on vaccinating children against COVID-19.
 
WHO's Strategic Advisory Group of Experts (SAGE) has concluded that the Pfizer/BionTech vaccine is suitable for use by people aged 12 years and above. Children aged between 12 and 15 who are at high risk may be offered this vaccine alongside other priority groups for vaccination. Vaccine trials for children are ongoing and WHO will update its recommendations when the evidence or epidemiological situation warrants a change in policy.
 
It's important for children to continue to have the recommended childhood vaccines."




CDC Site has the same type of guidance, albeit the verbiage excludes anything for children under 12:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations/adolescents.html
DeadGator401
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/06/23 02:02:33 (permalink)
I normally use this webpage to track case numbers.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

I'm sure it's not perfect real time data, but it has been pretty reliable during the past 18 months for tracking numbers. (It will list the Website source under the "Source" column on the left side for references. You can use these links if your county or area has tracking to be taken right to it. 

PA in general has been heavily trending downward, and it's been great to see. Just awesome news. 

Been pretty quiet around here, hope you guys and gals are out fishing and enjoying the summer.






 
snagr
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/06/23 09:04:00 (permalink)
DeadGator401
snagr
who would have thought that pumping millions of vaccines into a population of kids that don't need them without knowing the long term side effects might be dangerous?

"Children should not be vaccinated for the moment.  There is not yet enough evidence on the use of vaccines against COVID-19 in children to make recommendations for children to be vaccinated against COVID-19. Children and adolescents tend to have milder disease compared to adults. However, children should continue to have the recommended childhood vaccines."

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/covid-19-vaccines/advice


I fear your quote might make it seem as if the WHO presented the vaccines as dangerous to children (under 12 years of age btw), which they didn't. I've ensured those who don't follow that link, can see the whole segment of the webpage.


"Children and adolescents tend to have milder disease compared to adults, so unless they are part of a group at higher risk of severe COVID-19, it is less urgent to vaccinate them than older people, those with chronic health conditions and health workers.   

More evidence is needed on the use of the different COVID-19 vaccines in children to be able to make general recommendations on vaccinating children against COVID-19.

WHO's Strategic Advisory Group of Experts (SAGE) has concluded that the Pfizer/BionTech vaccine is suitable for use by people aged 12 years and above. Children aged between 12 and 15 who are at high risk may be offered this vaccine alongside other priority groups for vaccination. Vaccine trials for children are ongoing and WHO will update its recommendations when the evidence or epidemiological situation warrants a change in policy.

It's important for children to continue to have the recommended childhood vaccines."




CDC Site has the same type of guidance, albeit the verbiage excludes anything for children under 12:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations/adolescents.html


here’s what WHO said monday

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here’s what WHO said tuesday

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no new science as to pediatric effectiveness. the mounting science adds to pediatric danger. this is 100% new political pressure from the u.s. and c.d.c. because this guidance was starting to be widely circulated.

VAERS shows what an absolute train wreck this chemical experiment is in pediatric populations. pediatric distribution in germany and denmark has ceased.

couple weeks ago the CDC had scheduled an emergency meeting for this past friday to discuss all the bad things happening to kids - particularly teen and young adult males. but they cancelled it and rescheduled it for a few weeks down the road because of juneteenth becoming a holiday in the interim.
post edited by snagr - 2021/06/23 09:49:18

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snagr
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/06/23 11:37:04 (permalink)
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snagr
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/06/23 14:15:58 (permalink)
holy schnikes it gets even better. this is the actual cdc guidance on how to proceed if the first dose causes pericarditis or myocarditis and makes no differentiation between adults and children.

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remember last summer when everyone was like, “kids and college students and even professional athletes can’t play sports because myocarditis!” and they looked really hard and tried like mad to find cases of it to keep sports shut down but couldn’t find them?

now we actually have hard scientific evidence of something causing alarming rates of heart issues in kids and young adults but we’ve got deranged and demented institutions and public health officials mandating it and even recommending a second dose of something that has already caused it once!

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eyesandgillz
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/06/23 16:16:49 (permalink)
https://www.cnbc.com/2021...vid-vaccine-shots.html
 
CDC says likely link to cases of myocarditis and mRNA vaccines in adolescents.
DeadGator401
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/06/24 01:03:50 (permalink)
snagr
holy schnikes it gets even better. this is the actual cdc guidance on how to proceed if the first dose causes pericarditis or myocarditis and makes no differentiation between adults and children.



remember last summer when everyone was like, “kids and college students and even professional athletes can’t play sports because myocarditis!” and they looked really hard and tried like mad to find cases of it to keep sports shut down but couldn’t find them?

now we actually have hard scientific evidence of something causing alarming rates of heart issues in kids and young adults but we’ve got deranged and demented institutions and public health officials mandating it and even recommending a second dose of something that has already caused it once!


I wonder if there's concern something could be worse than the 132 reports in 2,039,871 Males ages 12-17, and 20 in 2,189,726 females in the same bracket?







 
snagr
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/06/24 01:53:28 (permalink)
DeadGator401
snagr
holy schnikes it gets even better. this is the actual cdc guidance on how to proceed if the first dose causes pericarditis or myocarditis and makes no differentiation between adults and children.



remember last summer when everyone was like, “kids and college students and even professional athletes can’t play sports because myocarditis!” and they looked really hard and tried like mad to find cases of it to keep sports shut down but couldn’t find them?

now we actually have hard scientific evidence of something causing alarming rates of heart issues in kids and young adults but we’ve got deranged and demented institutions and public health officials mandating it and even recommending a second dose of something that has already caused it once!


I wonder if there's concern something could be worse than the 132 reports in 2,039,871 Males ages 12-17, and 20 in 2,189,726 females in the same bracket?







 


when something is 32 times worse in real life than is expected or predicted, it usually raises some concerns among people who are actually interested in practicing science and following the scientific method.

this is the difference between science and scientism.

it’s also widely reported and accepted in the medical community that VAERS vastly under reports. some estimates by 90%. the fine folks at the cdc and fda know this and bank on it.
post edited by snagr - 2021/06/24 02:00:41
FishinGuy
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/07/01 11:48:34 (permalink)
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/myocarditis.html
snagr
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/07/01 22:42:25 (permalink)
FishinGuy
https://www.cdc.gov/vacci...tions/myocarditis.html



this is what cdc director rochelle walensky tweeted on 6/24
 
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based on this data
 
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1 million vaxxes to prevent 8,000 cases and 200 hospitalizations, 50 icu admits, and 1 death.  auditing in some states of pediatric covid hospitalizations shows that about 50% of covid hospitalizations are "with" and not "from/because of" covid.  incidental positive tests.  dr. marty makary who is the editor in chief of medpage today and is a professor at johns hopkins university wrote last week in medpage the following: 

"In reviewing the medical literature and news reports, and in talking to pediatricians across the country, I am not aware of a single healthy child in the U.S. who has died of COVID-19 to date. To investigate further, my research team at Johns Hopkins partnered with FAIR health to study pediatric COVID-19 deaths using approximately half of the nation's health insurance data. We found that 100% of pediatric COVID-19 deaths were in children with a pre-existing condition, solidifying the case to vaccinate any child with a comorbidity . . . Given that the risk of a healthy child dying is between zero and infinitesimally rare, it's understandable that many parents are appropriately asking, why vaccinate healthy kids at all?”


 
according to the cdc's own data 1 million vaxxes in the 12-15 age group will also result in . . .
 
12,000 requiring some type of medical care
3,000 requiring emergency or hospital care
345,000 unable to do normal daily activities
 
and HAS already resulted in the deaths of otherwise healthy kids in this age group.   
 
 
 
i'm kinda struggling to see the benefit here.  
 
 

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r3g3
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/07/17 19:00:23 (permalink)
OK so Texas Dems take a beer trip on pvt air to DC to avoid a Texas vote on the floor.
 
Now 3 claim they tested Positive for 19 even though they have had shots.
 
BS trying to get everyone 14 days quarantine in DC w/o consequences for leaving Tx or what lousy shots did they take?
 
Law said they were supposed to be masked flying but photos show they were not.
 
Oh yea- VP Harris met with them twice so is she outa the picture for 14 days too ???
(not a biggie with her cause shes been out ta lunch since Nov  anyhoo)
 
The invaders on the Southern border are refusing shots at the rate of 30% and they not only letum in but spread them all over the country.
post edited by r3g3 - 2021/07/22 19:45:15
DeadGator401
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/07/29 00:56:21 (permalink)
And up up up we go with the cases once again. 

Hope everyone's staying safe and social distancing on the lake/river somewhere.
eyesandgillz
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/07/29 08:35:44 (permalink)
MyWar
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/07/29 10:04:38 (permalink)
The UK has a higher vaccination rate than the US, and as the article states, it’s likely that the decrease in UK cases is due to behavioral changes, not herd immunity.

Since it appears that absolutely nothing will get the idiot anti vaxxers in this country to alter their behavior, it seems unlikely that this is going to magically disappear.
Porktown
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/07/29 10:05:19 (permalink)
eyesandgillz
But some possible optimistic news on that front DG:
 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-ks-delta-wave-seems-to-have-peaked-sooner-than-expected-could-the-same-thing-happen-in-the-us-090008129.html
 
 


Reading into that article, I am not sure if optimistic or not?  I guess optimistic in the part that they don't foresee the UK being as bad as some predicted, but still looks like we are heading towards a pretty significant wave here.  Just in time for policy makers to mask up our kids for the school year if people don't start flooding to get vaccinated, which doesn't appear to be happening.  If we are a month behind UK, we should be peaking in about a month, which is right when schools start.  As a pretty reliable predicter of the predictable, I would imagine any communications that you received from your schools, stating no masks (like mine sent), will be revised to masks and likely disrupted sports again.  I have no issues with people not getting shots that are only emergency authorized, but we have to expect masks and other shut downs, 100% due to them.
 
"There is, however, one key difference between the U.S. and the U.K. America’s current per capita case rate (18 reported cases for every 100,000 residents as of July 27) is identical to the U.K.’s on June 25 — which suggests that we may be lagging about a month behind our overseas counterparts and that our case counts could nearly quadruple, like theirs did, before coming down again. But one month ago, the U.K. was testing a staggering eight times as many of its people as we were, relative to population — and today they’re testing at roughly 10 times our rate."
DeadGator401
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/07/29 13:28:59 (permalink)
eyesandgillz
But some possible optimistic news on that front DG:
 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-ks-delta-wave-seems-to-have-peaked-sooner-than-expected-could-the-same-thing-happen-in-the-us-090008129.html
 


I hope so man but I have a hard time picturing this just going down like the UK. If we follow the trend of last year:
Summer was the time of lower cases and optimism it felt like (don't have the numbers of cases around the same time of last year handy, so just remembering here). Now we have a variant of the disease that is apparently more contagious, heading into the ending of summer. Fall and winter cases went up, and that's what scares me.

I have vulnerable and at risk family members. Some have already had covid, and one of them has long term lung damage (hopefully not permanent, but is on an inhaler daily with an extra emergency use one, for asthma that has developed because of covid). Most of them refuse the vaccines unfortunately. 
Porktown
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/07/29 13:51:42 (permalink)
DeadGator401
If we follow the trend of last year:
Summer was the time of lower cases and optimism it felt like (don't have the numbers of cases around the same time of last year handy, so just remembering here). Now we have a variant of the disease that is apparently more contagious, heading into the ending of summer. Fall and winter cases went up, and that's what scares me.

Your memory is the same as mine...  I went to Myrtle Beach last year about this time and besides having to wear masks in indoor public settings, it had felt like we were just about done.  The vaccine on the horizon at that point almost seemed like it would be a security blanket to a virus that ran its course.  When it reemerged in the fall, it was getting predictable to those that followed the science that it would follow a similar path of the Spanish Flu.  Thank God for modern science or would have been 10 times as deadly with the technology they had.  
 
It really comes down to the vaccine working.  I think there is enough evidence in UK and US that it is.  It was never noted to be 100%, but 94% for our original strain was pretty good.  Even when it was rolling out, it was showing to be only around 80% effective for South African and South American variant.  So we knew then it would offer protection but not 100%.  It is hard for them to really get an accurate percentage of natural immunity from the original strain to the new, but there is definitely some.  It may or may not be in that 80%-94% range of the vaccine.  UK in the article noted, has higher vaccine rate and after this wave at least, natural immunity.  Whether they hit heard immunity levels or not, it is likely close.  So, unless the virus mutates to another strain the vaccine and natural immunity won't protect, I don't think we will see a repeat of last fall/winter. 
 
We may end up with a pretty bad flu season though...  Covid has beat up some people as you noted.  The flu shot guesses what strains they think will be around.  If they guess that wrong and it spreads through already beat up population, it could wreak havoc.
r3g3
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/07/29 15:39:11 (permalink)
I think the seasonal thing is kinda moot when the Feds are transporting positive people all over the country and dropping them off in so many states.
Sorta like self inflicted mass infection event possibilities.
And the Dems and their favorite 'doctor' totally ignore it.
post edited by r3g3 - 2021/07/29 18:19:52
DeadGator401
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/07/29 16:43:29 (permalink)
r3g3
I thing the seasonal thing is kinda moot when the Feds are transporting positive people all over the country and dropping them off in so many states.
Sorta like self inflicted mass infection event possibilities.
And the Dems and their favorite 'doctor' totally ignore it.


First I've heard of this, where are you seeing this? Who's being dropped off? Where are they being dropped?


Porktown
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/07/29 17:33:53 (permalink)
There are a bunch of Nepalese being dropped off in my neighborhood...  Not sure if they are positive.   They do have some pretty cool outfits that they wear.  90 degrees and 90% humidity and some are wearing sock hats and coats.  Must get pretty toasty where they are originally from.
 
This is spreading again, because things are opened up and people are going all over the place without many precautions.  I am one of them.  I haven't worn a mask in months.  I mostly social distance, because I have always stayed about 6 feet away from others that aren't my family...  I got my shots, so have that extra invincibility feel.  2-3 weeks ago, I would have been just fine going into a concert with 5,000 strangers in an enclosed space.  Now I am kind of reconsidering that stance.  Many have not reconsidered and already have done or are doing.  But yeah, Biden's fault.
r3g3
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/07/29 18:19:17 (permalink)
People coming into the US on the Southern border have been- for months- given transportation to points within the US of their choosing.
JM2
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/07/31 14:13:59 (permalink)
r3g3
People coming into the US on the Southern border have been- for months- given transportation to points within the US of their choosing.




Except for a bunch of Nepalese, they got sent to Pittsburgh. They must be ****ed.
snagr
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/01 15:58:17 (permalink)
DeadGator401

(don't have the numbers of cases around the same time of last year handy, so just remembering here).


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DeadGator401
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/01 22:53:00 (permalink)
I'm not sure what that is. Are the dark lines one set of data vs the other?
Quick google with World O meters: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/#graph-cases-daily

Looks like we're trending upwards again, but numbers appear quite similar.
JM2
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/02 00:20:53 (permalink)
DeadGator401
r3g3
I thing the seasonal thing is kinda moot when the Feds are transporting positive people all over the country and dropping them off in so many states.
Sorta like self inflicted mass infection event possibilities.
And the Dems and their favorite 'doctor' totally ignore it.


First I've heard of this, where are you seeing this? Who's being dropped off? Where are they being dropped?






Unreal. Life goes on as usual on the mushroom farm.
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