limits on public resources ie trib trout

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15ftstcroix
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2020/01/15 11:43:38 (permalink)

limits on public resources ie trib trout

I was up fishing the tribs mon and tue. spent most of my time in ny (creeks full of stocked smolts) came back to pa and went to walnut to see if they got some freshies in with the rain. i got there about 3 on tue afternoon. there were some fish,fresh and old alike not tons but some . I walked up to the chutes noticing on the way guys with fish on ropes. i stood up there at the top end and watched obvious snagging and lifting techniques being used to put another on the rope. my point is when the snaggers catch them they hide where the fish is hooked by turning away from the crick and hurry and get the hook out of wherever it is and on the rope it goes. one guy was using a treble hooked spoon under a float!! HE DRIFTED IT DOWN INTO THE FISH AND GIVE IT A LITTLE JERK AND BINGO FISH ON. Where are the wardens?? there should be at least one at walnut all the time. to busy ? not enough manpower?its been going on for along time and doesnt ever get any better. My solution would be to decrease the limit to 1 fish per day that way the snaggers could only drag one down to the parking lot a day. they can hide where they hook it but alot harder to get them back to the car unnoticed. it would save tons of fish for everyone and also once they ripped one would probably go home thereby making more room for everyone to fish. im more than willing to accept a reduced limit so i could catch and release more cause i think most of us fish for sport not food. what do you think about my idea?

 
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    pafisher
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/15 11:53:18 (permalink)
    I like that idea,if the law would be enforced in regards to snagging and STIFF FINES handedout that would curb it too.
    #2
    Lucky13
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/15 12:08:30 (permalink)
    Back when Russell Station was still an operating power plant, before it was decommissioned and torn down, it was one of the winter hot spots on the LO South Shore.  The warm water discharge drew large runs of salmonids all winter.  It was not uncommon during those runs to watch the more shady of the "anglers" rope a limit and return to their vehicles, drive off for coffee, then return, sometimes multiple times per day, to load up again.  All they had to do was change their coats.  If someone is enough of a low life to snag, why do you think that a one fish limit will actually stop their poaching.  It may complicate it somewhat, but until enough people call every time they observe offenses, LE will never get the job done.
    #3
    15ftstcroix
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/15 13:00:51 (permalink)
    hi 13 the fish wardens know everything we know about the shady crap that goes on they should be more proactive with the enforcement end of it. really you and i dont fish walnut that often but everytime i do i could without a doubt bust some people for a multitude of offenses. my point is word will get around afterwards and the shadies will think twice because it will cost them money. More enforcement would without a doubt help with some of the problem. i myself have seen people in a group rope 3 together, one guy goes up over the bank to the car comes back for 3 more. If i can see it so could a warden but they gotta be there. Everybodys a good boy when the wardens obviously on site but what about just a guy fishing that also happens to be a warden? that would work , Ive seen it done in other places with good results. if the shadies know theres a good chance of getting caught they wouldnt be so quick to break the law and I just wanna catch more fish RIGHT? so anyway weve all been ****ing about it but how do we change it?
     
    this is america after all 1 man 1 vote Strength in numbers. and i have called and got no response or way too  late to catch em. We pay for the stamps, they get the cabbage, hire more deputys to REALLY enforce the laws in place, not once in awhile all the time. And a 1 fish limit would definitely help by 2 thirds. if they would let me be a deputy in my advanced years id sign up today.Ive had alot of really great fishing in the last 40 years im mostly concerned about the younger guys and girls having some of it too. memories are good and bad , you can remember the good ole past and get mad at the present which isnt the way i want it.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    #4
    15ftstcroix
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/15 17:54:52 (permalink)
    Does anyone have an idea as to how to get the limit reduced to one per day? a petition maybe?I would really like to pursue this and try to make the trib fishing better for everyone. If the i gotta keep 3 crowd dont like it I say good. Noone needs 3, 5 to 10 pound fish for a meal or the smoker. i think most of the fish kept get filleted put in the freezer and thrown out next year. i also know of trappers keeping limits for trapping bait.I heard of one guy that takes all he can get to grind up and mixes with water for fertilizer in his GARDEN!!These fish are a treasure and i feel very fortunate to catch them. Everyone should stop saying Oh Well Whatever ,somthing needs to be done by us THE FISHERMAN before it gets worse and it surely will. I would really like to hear what you guys think about all this.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
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    #5
    Moses Guthrie
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/15 18:15:35 (permalink)
    It's a put and take fishery, there will be more next year. 3 seems fine to me.
    #6
    Lucky13
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/16 09:31:48 (permalink)
    I've been fishing for Finger Lakes Rainbows for 55 years, Lake Ontario Rainbows for 40+ years, and when I started out most if the guys you met were out and out snaggers (lifters in local parlance).  I feel your pain, but the poachers are going to be poaching regardless of what you make the limit.  You have to follow the guy with three fish over the bank, get a plate number and call it in.  If you are not willing to do that, no one will ever get caught, except once in a blue moon when they don't see the Official Vehicle until it is too late.
    #7
    workcanwait....
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/16 10:19:45 (permalink)
    One fish limit for steel is overdue imo and many people are for it according to what I read in facebook groups and on here but for some reason the PFBC isn't doing it...returns are down and more guys fishing the criks every year.Its not just snaggers the walleye are eating a lot of smolts too so less return...WCW
    #8
    15ftstcroix
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/16 13:12:07 (permalink)
    thanks for the replies . as far as a put and take fishery, the commish isnt putting enough and the ropers are taking too many . and 13 as stated earlier a 1 fish limit wont stop all the poaching but it will definatly cut it down by 2/3 the amount because the ole boys that gotta catch their  "limit" will be only   keeping 1 instead of 3. im not saying by any means that all kept fish are FOUL hooked just some of them. if the guy snags a fish and keeps it at any trib just about any good spot others will be there and he wouldnt chance taking more than one. It would be pretty ballsy to try to get back to the car with more than 1 pretty hard to hide an 8 pound trout. Now i know that my suggestion isnt a cure all but with the restricted acsess to the cricks and the diminished returns its gotta help . Less Limit More Fish For Everybody. I got a chance to go to alaska for  ocean run steelhead in  2014. we fished down on the Kenai penn in small streams about walnut size . 
    The regs said that you werent supposed to take them out of the water at all because the commish up there was trying to get them solidly reastablished and they are succeding due to their rules and ENFORCEMENT policys. this is where i ran into a fisherman/Warden , i would never of guessed that the guy was a warden until another guy showed up and caught a nice 12 pounder by the looks of it and proceeded to take it out of the water onto the gravel for a pic ,WELL that didnt fly the "fisherman " below me walked up and showed the perp his badge and was still writing when i left that pool. more deputies for enforcement would also help no doubt IMO. gonna try talking to sombody with the commish to get their reasons for not lowering the limit and im gonna say that its prob. license sales which equals MONEY. mismanagement of the millions we as trout and trib fishermen pay every year.WE ALL DESERVE BETTER.
    #9
    psu_fish
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/16 14:21:06 (permalink)
    Why didn't you call the PFBC when you seen obvious snagging?
    #10
    15ftstcroix
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/16 18:53:27 (permalink)
    phone in car DUH my bad.
    #11
    CAPTAIN HOOK
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/16 19:08:14 (permalink)
    Once again NY has had a one fish limit on Steelhead for over 30 years , it doesn't seem to make a bit of difference year to year on returns. Some years the creeks are loaded , other years fish are low numbers . The tribs on western NY are jammed with fishermen even way more than Pa.  I'll say this also ...today there are more C & R fishermen more than ever .
     
    Erie use to be an 8 lake & shore limit on Trout ....then it went to 5 limit ...now 3 .  
     
    Snagging is illegal period , foul hooked fish should be returned also ....if the wardens are not policing there lies that problem .
     
    As far as increasing future returns that something nobody knows for certain .
    Is it the 3 limit ?
    Is it the high number of fishermen ?
    Is it the over abundance of Walleye eating smolts ?
    Is it diseased smolts or large fatalities after stocking ?
    Is it low stocking numbers some years ?
    Are charter boats keeping too many all spring and summer with daily runs ?
    Do winter creek Steelhead even make it to return to the lake ?
    With ice jams , no feed , spawning stress , low water and low oxygen conditions , caught and released several times a week , I don't see much of a chance of many returning .
     
    It's basically a put and take program year to year  .... IMO .
        
    #12
    solitario lupo
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/16 19:28:37 (permalink)
    If your trying to change the limit to 1 so you can catch more fish sounds like you can’t catch fish. As I find plenty of trout to catch. The fish commission does its studies and 3 is the limit for a reason. They are a invasive fish doing more harm to the lake than good anyways or that’s what they say about invasive fish. Just imagine if they were stocked and not kept. Good bye to the native fish. There’s a reason for it to be a put and take fishery. As for snaggers never going to stop it.
    #13
    Lucky13
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/17 09:12:47 (permalink)
    FWIW, about 35+ years ago, my buddy TwoBob and I went to the lower Salmon River (pre-Douglaston) and encountered a crew of lifters from PA, in the section downstream where snagging was not legal, although it was legal above Pineville.  When we said something to them about what they would do in PA, where my experience was wardens were conscientious and hard butted, and cut no one any slack (based on time living in the Endless Mountains), one of the lifters displayed his PA Officers badge.  "Busman's Holiday" he said, and went right back to yanking and cranking. 
     
    You see what you see in the moment.  The guy who writes the ticket has to envision everything from the writing to the sentence by the JP, and many times what you see as open and shut, he is going to see getting thrown out of court later, and he has limited time, so does not want to waste any unless he knows the ticket will stick.
    #14
    15ftstcroix
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/17 20:28:25 (permalink)
    You guys are really something , im talking about more fish for everyone to catch after whatever numbers return to the cricks . its simple math if 5 guys keep 3 thats 15 ,if 5 guys keep one thats 5 leaving 10 for continued oppurtunitys for C,R. We cant change the walleye predation .we cant help the sick smolts we dont even know about . we, as a group could lobby for a limit of one to help make better 
    CATCHING, numbers wise, a possibility. Captain Hook Ive always enjoyed and respected your posts on here as ive been reading them for years BUT im not talkin about lower limits for better returns next season. Im talkin about no matter what the returns are,  reducing the limit Will make "this" season more fun for all concerned. common sense. Lone wolf you are so wacked "Invasive species"?? in the 60s erie was called the dead sea NO FISH AT ALL. all the fish in there were reestablished after the lake was cleaned up.DUH!!! and as far as me not being able to catch em ive caught a couple during the last40 plus years and i dont bottom dredge a 2 fly rig to do it. Now im gonna go nap cause younse wear me out.PS 13 FIELD CITATIONS ONLY 
    PAY THE FINE OR GET ARRESTED .Whos gonna come back here from " wherever" to go to court ???. AAAND the wardens aint suppossed to "make the call" they are charged with ENFORCING the LAW and the chips lay where they fall.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
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    #15
    Lucky13
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/18 09:08:42 (permalink)
    What do you think this is, Mexico? Field citations only, just what I want, the cops collecting the fines, no due process available to the accused. You get your judge, jury, and executioner badges along with your game protector badge.  You must be a democrat, you'd register an illegal alien to vote automatically when you handed them their driver's license, like our emperor here in NYS.
     
    If you see something illegal and you DON'T drop the dime, YOU are the responsible party.  I like me some of that pie in the sky, too, but I have over 50 years of fishing for anadromous fish, and the runs bring out the worst in some people, and depending on or worse, expecting, the Game Warden to catch all of it is pure fantasy.  Keep making the calls, maybe some of these a**hats get busted, don't call and continue to biotch, you are just a whiner looking for other whiners to agree with you.
    #16
    anzomcik
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/18 09:25:57 (permalink)
    15ftstcroix
    Lone wolf you are so wacked "Invasive species"?? in the 60s erie was called the dead sea NO FISH AT ALL. all the fish in there were reestablished after the lake was cleaned up.


    http://www.invasivespecie...tive.com/rainbow-trout

    Yes they are invasive. Meaning they are not native. Only here because we put them here, regardless if they were zero fish left in Lake Erie in the 60s. Walleye were present, small mouth were present, perch were present for like thousands of years.... steel head 50 years or so. They didn’t naturally swim here and set up shop
    #17
    CAPTAIN HOOK
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/18 12:03:50 (permalink)
    Why the insults added Luck 13 and why the political harassment or bashing on fishing forums ? Hearing a person out is what forums are about . We may not agree ,but maybe we can share and resolve some issues, or maybe not . I see his point after his last post.
     
    I personally don't think 1 fish limit will help much, but maybe it wouldn't encourage the limit abusers as much. I'd favor a 1 fish Steelhead limit all Spring till mid Nov. then open back up to a 3 fish limit till Jan. or early spring again. This way the all season boaters, and early trib fishermen don't over abuse the early run numbers. Also after mid November the fish will have scattered nicely throughout the streams and not make easy targets for lifters and snaggers. As stated I don't think many survive the winter or colder weather situations , so harvesting more later wouldn't be all bad since many would probably parish due to spawning stress , low water , and no feed. I'd rather see them in a smoker than floating dead in the creek after crushing winter ice flows wipes out many.   
     
    Nobody is going to stop the poachers or snaggers all over all the time, but more "undercover patrolling "would keep the law breakers thinking and looking more.   
    #18
    solitario lupo
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/18 13:10:31 (permalink)
    Do you know how many people complain to the fish commission. How are you going to start your petition to them. There are not enough trout for me to catch lol. You dont see the scientific fact on it but complain about numbers. Like captain even said different facts can all pose a threat to these fish cause they are invasive. A lot more invasive species in Erie that are even hurting them. If stocking is not done, they do not spawn very well. So you can put the two together I hope. Bash all you want I got a good laugh out of that.
    I like to know if you even know the native trout to PA.
    post edited by solitario lupo - 2020/01/18 13:16:22
    #19
    fisherofmen376
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/19 07:57:16 (permalink)
    New to the party but same old song and dance.
    There’s plenty of feesh to be caught.

    "Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men."
    Matthew 4:19
    #20
    Lucky13
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/19 12:36:17 (permalink)
    CAPTAIN HOOK
    Why the insults added Luck 13 and why the political harassment or bashing on fishing forums ? Hearing a person out is what forums are about . We may not agree ,but maybe we can share and resolve some issues, or maybe not . I see his point after his last post.

    Sorry, Hook, but I thought I got the first shot taken at me, just throwing one back.
    #21
    15ftstcroix
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/19 18:09:55 (permalink)
    thanx capt. you get me . the rest of the boys dont really . ill go back too just wishin things could be better instead of triing to rally some support to make a difference. Lucky 13 theres no point in talking to you or replying to the crap you spout.
    #22
    jat1007
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/20 08:23:56 (permalink)
    always been an advocate to close fishing once smolts get stocked.... 
     
    maybe close certain sections?  makes you wonder how many get hooked deep or bashed around on rocks that don't survive
     
     
     
     


    #23
    CAPTAIN HOOK
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/20 08:34:03 (permalink)
    Years ago when I started fishing the NY tribs (80's ) we would go mainly for Trout . Back then snagging Salmon was legal . I never tried or cared for snagging Salmon, but since they would die regardless I didn't care . What was sad was seeing all the really nice Browns and some Steelhead getting snagged in the mess. Well at least NY at the time was smart enough to ban snagging after November thereby somewhat satisfying both types of fishermen the Salmon snaggers, and the Trout fishermen. Today snagging is banned completely, but it took several tries to change the law over the years due to different opinions by fishermen. 
     
    I think what I proposed in my last post would do just that , maybe lower the limit slightly during beginning peak times and increase it later, kind of satisfying both. Like I said lake limits were at 8 once then went to 5 and now are at 3 ....had to be a reason they dropped ? Maybe it's time to look again or at least reconsider some common sense options that work for all.        
    #24
    Lucky13
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/20 10:02:20 (permalink)
    15ftstcroix
    thanx capt. you get me . the rest of the boys dont really . ill go back too just wishin things could be better instead of triing to rally some support to make a difference. Lucky 13 theres no point in talking to you or replying to the crap you spout.


    Takes a spouter to know a spouter.  I got sick of the taste of "neophyte pie in the sky" here in NY before PA and Ohio even discovered steelhead.   I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to find 40 undisturbed fish in every pool, but unless YOU make the calls and write the letters, it ain't going to happen for you..... And die in a fire!  
    #25
    Lucky13
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/20 10:12:57 (permalink)
    And, Hook, I was involved heavily from day one in getting snagging banned, and was also very involved in the institution of our "one fish in the tributaries" limit, and the "fish littering" law, which slowed down the distribution of rank and putrid odors to neighbors of tributaries and slowed down the onslaught of posted signs at least in a few spots.  I have also been an outspoken advocate for a 25" size limit, which might work in NYS because we get fish that are longer than 25" ().  So I have walked the walk as well as "spouting the talk" for over 35 years.  As a result I KNOW that it takes more than whining on the Internet, you have to actually become involved, write letters to people in charge, call the warden's EVERY time you see a violation (and in NYS they call you back now, too), attend every meeting held pertinent to the fishery, and organize on a face to face, one to one basis every time you are presented with an opportunity.  And good luck with the lake guys when you try to cut their limit, too, although I can't take credit for that current NYS proposal.   
    #26
    Moses Guthrie
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/20 10:18:54 (permalink)
    Don't think the boat guys would like the proposal of one fish per day.

    Do you want the guys gut hooking fish at the mouths on powerbait throwing back fish after fish after they keep one or stopping after 3? Same with the boat guys who do go out?

    I doubt lowering the limit would have a positive impact on the local economy as well. How many people are going to take a charter or their boat out for one fish per day? How many guys that make a couple trips a year up to get a box of fish are going to stop buying an Erie permit, renting hotel rooms, eating at restaurants and getting smoked fish? Most people who don't care about a one fish limit are going to fish no matter if it's three or one fish.

    How many locations in the world are there that below average to average fishermen can tangle with multiple steelhead on a daily basis? There are still plenty of fish and will be more next year and the year after, etc.
    #27
    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/20 11:00:41 (permalink)
    Moses Guthrie
    Don't think the boat guys would like the proposal of one fish per day.



    I doubt lowering the limit would have a positive impact on the local economy as well. How many people are going to take a charter or their boat out for one fish per day? How many guys that make a couple trips a year up to get a box of fish are going to stop buying an Erie permit, renting hotel rooms, eating at restaurants and getting smoked fish? Most people who don't care about a one fish limit are going to fish no matter if it's three or one fish.

    How many locations in the world are there that below average to average fishermen can tangle with multiple steelhead on a daily basis? There are still plenty of fish and will be more next year and the year after, etc.


    I'd say that sums up the present situation, very well.

    When the "money" begins showing a problem with the fishery then expect action, by the 'gate keepers of the trout'.

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
    #28
    solitario lupo
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/20 11:53:21 (permalink)
    Moses Guthrie
    Don't think the boat guys would like the proposal of one fish per day.

    Do you want the guys gut hooking fish at the mouths on powerbait throwing back fish after fish after they keep one or stopping after 3? Same with the boat guys who do go out?



    That’s the other thing how good is catch and release if people don’t properly do it. I’ve seen trout sit up on rocks and kicked back to the waters with no hope of surviving. Good point.
    #29
    CAPTAIN HOOK
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    Re: limits on public resources ie trib trout 2020/01/20 13:18:24 (permalink)
    Your right Lucky it does take more action than just internet complaining as you have spoken ....that's a fact. That's why we talk freely on these forums about fishing issues or suggestions pro or con and that's all it is to me just talk. With the advantage of the internet one can now or most times take action by writing directly to the source . Not that will make an immediate difference, but one can start voicing suggestions or complaints directly via e-mails.
     
    As far as boat limits I don't think many charter just for Steelhead only ...I see no problem with Walleye limits as they are. Lake limits on Trout did drop over the years so there had to be some reason behind the change.
     
    Yes with improper handling some C&R is probably as equal as stringing up the fish!
     
    Talk about swimming the Elk trib gauntlet .....I caught a Steelhead once that had a mix of 6 jigs and flies in it's back and tail..... that I removed !     
     
     
    #30
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