GilliganJR
My War- don't bring facts/figures into this argument.
BTDT will only call you a troll or a liar.  remember, he's seen it all.  he was there when fracking caused orange water.  
 
also theres a trump thread?  jfc, who would actually comment on a trump thread on a dying regional fishing forum?  oh..  
 
i'll log out now for a few more months.  

Thanks for the flowers Gilligan I really appreciate you taking your precious time posting the "attaboy" on a dying regional fishing forum?

One correction though..... I'm not calling MyWar a liar and a troll but pointing out why MyWar "is" a liar and a troll. Oh yeah a bigot too.

Good to hear from ya, don't stay away so long.

PS. For a guy who finds this a dying forum and claims to stay away so long, you sure know a lot about the other forums. hmmm 🤔

Pork any mention in your source of information where excess taxes go at the end of the fiscal year and how the tranfer came about. I can't remember, before or after Wolf. Dam old timers, probably brought on by drinking the water.


P.S. "reach around".... kinda kinky neighbor.😊

From my understanding of the bill/tax, it was a tax levied on the oil companies by volume, and believe increased over time, which in turn passed it along to us.  Supposed to pay for transportation infrastructure, which we were in pretty heavy need of.  I doubt there is a section on excess taxes (like government ever has a section on excess taxes???).  I doubt we will ever catch up to how much money is needed for improving transportation infrastructure in PA.  We have some of the worst terrain/climate in the country to build roads/bridges/tunnels, and none of those things are getting cheaper.  Most are well past their life expectancy.  So, it was definitely something that needed to happen.  Wolf, like any good Democrat, ran on issues that sound great to many voters.  But when push comes to shove, either too much outside interest to change things or just no attractive way to make up the tax revenue that were in place.  In this case, I would say no good alternative for the badly needed infrastructure funding.
 
I don't know all of the details of the tax or bill, but is in a collection system that I strongly agree with.  Not that I like taxes, but a necessary evil if we want roads, to take us fishing and other less important things...  When you tax gasoline, the vast majority of that is going to vehicles that either use that fuel or transporting recreation vehicles that use that fuel.  About as close to a consumption tax as you can get, and funds supposed to be used for something related.  I am not dumb enough to think all funds go to something related, but I am hopeful that most do.  
 
You and a few others are by far the experts on commercial logistics, so I am not sure how they handle the big rigs with this fuel surcharge?  I would assume they could fill their tanks in OH and NJ to avoid this fee.  I would assume that PA does something at the weigh stations to make sure the big rigs aren't bypassing this tax?
 
This is the same reason that I support taxing the gas industry.  Which, Corbett seemed like he would have supported as well, if not so deeply financially (OWNED) by the industry.  It is a consumption based tax, that may end up making our home heating a bit higher, but also makes NJ, OH, NY, VA, WV, etc. heating higher.  The state will collect and hopefully not look at raising income tax, property tax or other tax that is only paid by PA residents.  Have it partially pay for infrastructure, which the industry is definitely using.  Have it also fund any emergency cleanup or other industry related issues.  And like any other natural resource producing state, that actually tax, have a portion go to the general fund and others to help.  Maybe even give a Pennsylvania Permanent Fund (see Alaska).
 
 

Pork I'll drink to that. Salute.


Right also with the buy fuel in Ohio. Hell I buy all my gasoline across the line. 30 cent a gal difference. Part of the reason I relocated where I did.

Anyway enough with the politics thanks for your response to my question.

Porktown
This definitely goes to the meat of this thread though.  If done responsibly, then drill.  If it means it is more expensive, oh well.  

On its surface, this seems to be a reasonable position. I'd prefer a ban on fracking, but the genie is probably never going back in the bottle, so proper oversight and management is realistically the best we can hope for.
 
Is it being done responsibly though? I think the answer is a resounding NO.
 
 

Porktown
On a side note.  Some communities are seeing some very good things from drilling funds, paid to the local governments.  I am well aware of the Cannon Mac cancer cluster, but they have one heck of a sports facility that the gas industry supposedly paid for (South Strabane Community Park).  I am sure none dealing with illness related to drilling would agree that it is a good exchange.

 
Its kind of repulsive, the way the industry tries to buy off the communities which are directly affecting by drilling. But the Public Herald article brings up a more troubling possibility, which is that communities very far from the gas wells can be impacted.
 
In the original article there is a map that shows the landfills and the wastewater treatment plants investigated by the authors. Pull up the map, and consider drilling activity in/around the city of Washington or south strabane township. TENORM from those wells is going to the landfills identified by the black dots on the map. There is one such landfill right off I-70 near Belle Vernon, which would be a convenient haul from south strabane. So then toxic leachate from that landfill goes to one of the wastewater treatment plants identified by red dots on the map, the nearest one being in Charleroi. That leachate is then treated and any industrial toxins that can not be removed by conventional wastewater treatment methods are discharged directly into the monongahela, which in turn affects every community downstream: Monessen, New Eagle, Elizabeth, Clairton, etc... So a ball field in south strabane isn't much consolation to the people in say, Donora, that have toxic chemicals in their water.
 

I guess he told you emitch. 😜


Emitch in your defense, PA does carry higher Democrat registration.

What MyWar doesn't want to admit is the democrat voters are finally wising up and voting republican.

Personally I don't think MyWars agenda for coming to this forum is for anything but search and destroy.

He outright lied about his joining date, said he stayed mainly with the north & south fishing boards yet never posted a single word regarding fishing (until questioned),
he obviously does not practice what he preaches, and I've yet to find any of the links he post to provide hard core fact.

Posting links to reports and/or articles that say could, might, probable, maybe, have been known to, science indicates and my favorite; found to be, (usually by some little known, self proclaimed health organization) "is" a sign of a troll on a search & destroy mission.

Using stats like "sudden increases in cancer or other illness that's based only on speculation, is yet another sign of search & destroy.

Rebuttals such as "more jobs/more radio active water" is another sign of a troll with no purpose but to search & destroy.

Getting personal, talking in a condesending fashion, belittling/ shaming your opposition is a difinite sign of a loser, searching to destroy.

I know these things. 🤗

Bloomberg is headed to Alabama. Be interesting to see what Alabamans think about Goofy Bloomberg taking their guns.

🤔Big Gulps Too 😯

100 % agreed Sujie we need to be informed, but we need investigative journalist reporting facts.

When I hear "could be, might be, probably will be, etc.", I'm hearing opinion. Every person should be allowed their personal opinion, but write it as just that, a personal opinion.

I see reporters using personal opinion as a means to build their (for lack of a better word) boogeyman. I see the reason for the boogeyman as a sole purpose to sell news papers. I see todays newspapers as being no better than tabloids, at the checkout counter in your local Walmart.

I liken, the boogeyman as "crying wolf" which as we know, eventually falls on death ears. I also associate a boogeyman to "reporters" and not "investigative journalist".

I see reporters as the "carnival cryer" and I see "investigative journalist" as journalist.

I've pointed out what I see with MyWar. You can be the judge as to wheather it's fact or just my opinion. I will defend myself in saying I based my opinion on facts.

Facts like, providing false information regarding his activity on FishUSA. Responding in condesending tones along with using "word of the day" to intimidate the intellect of his opposition. Hell, MyWar goes as far as telling me, I'm lying about the point, I'm trying to make. Then we have that little trick of tossing in those little demeaning phrases hiding under a false guise like "what about the children".

Why a bigot you ask, I'll certainly stand corrected if it's not fact that, MyWar benefits (everyday) in some way, shape, or form from the oil & gas industry he paints, as the boogeyman.

Here's the deal, like my political fan club, MyWar knows nothing about me but he is certainly welcome to his opinion. Just don't alter my words when quoting me or tell me what my intensions are, when I reference or make a point by presenting true situations. (I think I know what I ment🤔)

Also MyWar absolutely refuses to accept reasoning, with his rebutals providing false or half truth info to back his stance then, when still proven wrong, turns to insults and shaming.

Haa ha, I can hear it now, that's what I'm doing and of course my defence (or is that defense) will be no, I'm providing fact for my opinion.

In closing, I wish to say, I'm not looking for a fight or to deny any industry need be watched to prevent pollution.

Mentioning the days of past wasn't to talk about "orange water".

My point is, over the years, many agency's have either been formed, reorganised, and trained to serve as watchdogs. In addition, since those days, no longer does the pollution I witnessed exist.

Each of the agency's have a separate role to play in the prevention of pollution.

But hell, that was only orange water. Which by the way still exist and produced by shallow gas and oil wells. From which comes gasoline, heat and light, in addition to plastic (gee where is that stuff used🤔)

But let's stick to the radio active stuff, as it makes for such a much better boogeyman.






I refered to one such agency that actually overstepped it's bounds by doing an extensive study of the Susquehanna in search for the cause of "the morphing bass".

A study that suspected sewage treatment plants along the river. A study so extensive it included assistance from both state and local agency's as well as PA university's.

I believe the original topic of discussion for this forum was about polluting the Susquehanna with radio active material, processed through sewage treatment plants?


Reports from the PFBC study indicated the morphing bass may be due too the inefficiency of sewage treatment plants as well. One such report mentioned hormones produced from birth control meds, entering the river through these plants, as being suspect.


Note to fan club:

It's right in the reports of the study and easy enough to prove, just make it worth my time, what do you want to lose?

Hmmm... sorry, but when opportunity knocks, who doesn't take advantage to make a few bucks. Even if it is by painting, a boogeyman.

Never did I see, in reports I read from this study, radio active pollution being a concern.

However...I'll stand corrected.

The bass issue, a virus.

Anyways, Sujie thanks for asking and yes I too enjoy the discussion now only if I could learn to ignore the likes of MyWar...... NOT!🤗

MyWar

JayD
Are we done yet or could we please move this to another forum? I’m a staunch Conservative and registered Republican. 

Is this some kind of a joke? If a liberal were to say something like this, conservatives would blast them for being snowflakes who need safe spaces. 
 
I'm sorry that you are uncomfortable because your views are being challenged, but the topic seems totally appropriate. The impact of industry on our fisheries is something we should be thinking about.

I rest my case.


Hey Jay.... welcome aboard.👍

MyWar

BeenThereDoneThat.
100 % agreed Sujie we need to be informed, but we need investigative journalist reporting facts.

See, this is why I have pretty much stopped reading your posts and replying to you.
 
The article which started this thread is actually a great example of investigative journalism. They investigated the topic for months, reviewed DEP data, researched regulations, interviewed officials, all of their data is cited... And you still haven't managed to provide a single reason to back up your claims that the article is inaccurate.
 
This is what happens when people get stuck in media bubbles and echo chambers. They lose the ability to think critically, and they lose the ability to consider alternative viewpoints.

Gosh I love it when I'm right......


CASE CLOSED

Certainty and repetition turns opinions into facts. I know this is true.

Same with you Gilligan, don't let the door hit ya....lmao
 

BeenThereDoneThat.

MyWar

JayD
Are we done yet or could we please move this to another forum? I’m a staunch Conservative and registered Republican. 

Is this some kind of a joke? If a liberal were to say something like this, conservatives would blast them for being snowflakes who need safe spaces. 
 
I'm sorry that you are uncomfortable because your views are being challenged, but the topic seems totally appropriate. The impact of industry on our fisheries is something we should be thinking about.

I rest my case.


Hey Jay.... welcome aboard.👍

Thanks BTDT!