Helpful ReplyHot!Everything we know and loved .......

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Sujie
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2019/11/01 01:27:43 (permalink)

Everything we know and loved .......

https://publicherald.org/...xFNFBpFAfJOo-fK9GRB1bY
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Sujie
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/01 07:49:35 (permalink)
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Kokanee Killer
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/01 08:57:05 (permalink)
ya know this really sucks   all political affiliation aside,, as a avid fisherman and one who enjoys our rivers and streams  this hurts  seems  pa is is own worst enemy

I have become comfortably numb
#3
rippinlip
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/01 11:24:27 (permalink)
I was reading about this last week. I wish I knew what to do about it. They do what they want because they're bought and beholding to lobbyists. Term limits and get rid of lobbyists? Sucks. 

You should have been here yesterday.............. Streams are made for the wise man to contemplate and fools to pass by [Sir Izaak Walton]
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Porktown
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/01 12:00:01 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby CAPTAIN HOOK 2019/11/02 15:13:54
Life would be so much better without lobbyists.  Government would actually run for the people.
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MyWar
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/01 13:32:53 (permalink)
rippinlip
I was reading about this last week. I wish I knew what to do about it.


Maybe start pressuring state legislators to ban fracking? And if your rep won’t stand up to the gas industry then vote for somebody that does?

Might as well broaden this to include all fossil fuels because they are dumping fly ash from a coal power plant into the Allegheny and the locals around Warren are freaking out about it up there as well.

Clearly, according the article the PA DEP is not doing its job. But if there was no gas drilling, then we wouldn’t have all of these toxic radioactive byproducts in the first place, so figuring how to dispose of them would consequently not be a problem.
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DNJ500
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/02 09:42:09 (permalink)
Sickening...Just vote..Whichever way you feel...or what is most important to you....
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solitario lupo
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/02 13:23:50 (permalink)
We may fish the waters but don’t forget how many people will be drinking this water
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BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/02 19:23:21 (permalink)
This radio-active frack water being dumped into PA waters, is the radio active contents something added for fracking or is it natural occuring like the radon gas found to be leaking into the basements of thousands of residential homes.

If, the radio active contents of fracking water is natural occuring and radioactive radon gases can leach into basements than would not public drinking water taken from ground wells, also contain radio active contents?

So, why would a river like the Susquehanna not be, naturally picking up radio active contents.

Then I gotta wonder, what does happen with all the water used in PA for fracking?



Speaking of contaminates in the drinking water taken from the Susquehanna, ya want some real eye openers, read the results of testing (beginning early 2000ish) conducted on the Susquehanna, when the bass were said to be morphing?

Then research the latest data as the true problem with the bass.

I understand the feeling of everyone posting this board and my intension is not to argue but merely, present some food for thought.

One would be living completely off the grid not to see how a person with a grudge, will "look up the asz of a dead horse" seeking a boogeyman that will bolster their agenda.

Speaking of living off the grid, where would you be today, without oil & gas? I'll guarantee ya, you wouldn't be using the plastic device in your hand, reading this page. 😉

Thanks for reading my thoughts.
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2019/11/02 19:31:55

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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Sujie
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/03 05:39:54 (permalink)
For your Sunday reading pleasure ...... ("look up the asz of a dead horse") ??
https://fracfocus.org/che...hat-chemicals-are-used
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dipNrip
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/03 06:38:52 (permalink)
Gotta love it when people pull data from biased sources. frac water cannot be processed at sewage plants. That's 10 year old news before the local sewage plant figured out they can't remove small solids ( ie salts ). Frac water is reused or injected into disposal wells.
People need to do their research before we end up like California. Not reading people's agenda based sources.
post edited by dipNrip - 2019/11/03 06:43:05
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Jay
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/03 08:12:15 (permalink)
👍🏻
BeenThereDoneThat.
This radio-active frack water being dumped into PA waters, is the radio active contents something added for fracking or is it natural occuring like the radon gas found to be leaking into the basements of thousands of residential homes.

If, the radio active contents of fracking water is natural occuring and radioactive radon gases can leach into basements than would not public drinking water taken from ground wells, also contain radio active contents?

So, why would a river like the Susquehanna not be, naturally picking up radio active contents.

Then I gotta wonder, what does happen with all the water used in PA for fracking?



Speaking of contaminates in the drinking water taken from the Susquehanna, ya want some real eye openers, read the results of testing (beginning early 2000ish) conducted on the Susquehanna, when the bass were said to be morphing?

Then research the latest data as the true problem with the bass.

I understand the feeling of everyone posting this board and my intension is not to argue but merely, present some food for thought.

One would be living completely off the grid not to see how a person with a grudge, will "look up the asz of a dead horse" seeking a boogeyman that will bolster their agenda.

Speaking of living off the grid, where would you be today, without oil & gas? I'll guarantee ya, you wouldn't be using the plastic device in your hand, reading this page. 😉

Thanks for reading my thoughts.


👍🏻
#12
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/03 08:15:41 (permalink)
Sujie
For your Sunday reading pleasure ...... ("look up the asz of a dead horse") ??
https://fracfocus.org/che...hat-chemicals-are-used


BTDT neighbor, I follow the drilling in PA and I read articles from both sides of the fence.

The emphasis was on "radio active water" being dumped into PA waterways.

Since you brought it up, Id like to point out the very info link you provided also emphasises "many chemicals are available but only a selective few are used".

In addition I questioned what happen's to the water used for fracking in PA?

Also note, the recommendation to research the results from testing when the PFBC (under the direction of John Arway) conducted extensive studies trying to determine, why bass were morphing in the Susquehanna.

Followed by my recommendation to research the real problem found to be the cause for condition of the bass.

What I didn't mention was how John Arway was railroaded into the directors position then making the Susquehanna his personal project and taking the PFBC beyond the scope of the agency's responsibilities.

All because somebody(s) thought the EPA wasn't doing the job the somebody(s) wanted. It is said that job, was to cause a complete make over, and stiffer control of all sewage treatment facilities operating along the Susquehanna.

The story was covered by PA Outdoors and test results as well as reports are available on line, of an extensive study on the Susquehanna and yes, the report(s) talk about the chemicals and the sources for such, found in the waters of the Susquehanna.

Did you know one such cause for the bass morphing was said to be substantial amounts of hormones which cannot be removed, in sewage treatment plants?

Well 18 (+/-) years later we learn the reason for the bass, no longer morphing but now, mortality is caused by a virus specific to bass.

Again, I am not here looking for an argument, only tossing out some food for thought.

I too want to keep clean air and pristine waters. No offense, but most people writing the doom and gloom articles are doing so out of the need to make a living.

Most of these reporters are so desperate for any tid bit of information, they do look up the asz of dead horse, in search of their boogeyman.

Compare todays water and air quality to that prior to the clean water (72) & air act (63).... most of younz ain't seen pollution.

So anyway what does happen to the water used for fracking, in PA and how do they determine the added chemicals?
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2019/11/03 08:31:29

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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#13
MyWar
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/03 09:50:26 (permalink)
dipNrip
Gotta love it when people pull data from biased sources. frac water cannot be processed at sewage plants. That's 10 year old news before the local sewage plant figured out they can't remove small solids ( ie salts ). Frac water is reused or injected into disposal wells.
People need to do their research before we end up like California. Not reading people's agenda based sources.


Sounds like somebody looked at a headline and made a conclusion without actually reading the article.

The authors state that the contamination is resulting from the disposal of SOLID WASTE from gas drilling at sanitary landfills, not frac water at sewage plants.
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BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/03 14:32:34 (permalink)
MyWar
dipNrip
Gotta love it when people pull data from biased sources. frac water cannot be processed at sewage plants. That's 10 year old news before the local sewage plant figured out they can't remove small solids ( ie salts ). Frac water is reused or injected into disposal wells.
People need to do their research before we end up like California. Not reading people's agenda based sources.


Sounds like somebody looked at a headline and made a conclusion without actually reading the article.

The authors state that the contamination is resulting from the disposal of SOLID WASTE from gas drilling at sanitary landfills, not frac water at sewage plants.


Really, someone just looked at the headlines?

Well looks like you MyWar, practice what you preach and "cherry picked" a few words from the first paragraph.

I quote......

"But what Wolf can’t see, is that his own Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) has allowed radioactive material from fracking waste to be discharged into that River through sewage facilities upstream." unquote.

Plus the article goes on to mention "from 14 sewage plants".

HELLO?

I think everyone posting this board wishes to protect the great outdoors. However, I won't allow myself to be indoctrinated by the same people that chastise the oil & gas industry who themselves, drive vehicles, use devices, heat their residence, etc which is all dependant on the oil & gas industry.

I liken these people to people who demand employees be paid "minimum wages" then protest & beatch about the price of their "Big Mac" and their "Super Sized Fries".

The author of this article as well as MyWar call for letters to Gov. Wolf about the state EPA not doing their job.

Calling for such letters aimed at the EPA is absolutely the icing on the cake proving nither of these people, understand the role of the EPA.

I'd suggest letters to the likes of Bob Casey asking him to resign for the polluted swamp he and others like him, have created. Using the EPA in keeping industry from creating good paying jobs where as, a family man/woman need not work for "minimum wages" flipping burgers and asking "want fries with that?

Halloween is over folks, time to put away the "boogeyman" and KEEP AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2019/11/03 14:40:50

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
#15
rippinlip
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/03 15:01:25 (permalink)
All I know is that SOMEONE'S palm got greased to be able to inject poison in our drinking water. We need to figure out how to police politicians more better.
 

You should have been here yesterday.............. Streams are made for the wise man to contemplate and fools to pass by [Sir Izaak Walton]
#16
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/03 16:46:45 (permalink)
rippinlip
All I know is that SOMEONE'S palm got greased to be able to inject poison in our drinking water. We need to figure out how to police politicians more better.
 


Can't argue that point, we know it happens and likely, more often then not.

But still, it's not the EPA setting the allowable limits.

Speaking of limits, the article clearly overstates and I think with the intension of scaring people with false information.

The article states the news paper has uncovered the dumping of chemical treated radio active water then moves on to blaming Gov Wolf and the EPA all the while emphasizing "radio active".

I'll stand corrected but never did I see it reported, "any" ground water can be naturally contaminated and radio active materials are not added to the ground water for fracking.

Nor did I see it mentioned many different types of chemicals are available for fracking but PA only uses a select type of chemicals.

Add to that, no mention that the chemicals can be treated with the use of bacteria that break the chemicals down.

The big one though, no mention PA cleans, an recycles the water for fracking and in fact, saves money by doing so.

One major problem faced in recycling frack water in PA is the ground water is very high in salts, which must be removed in the cleaning process before the water is reused.

Want more info on "salts" in ground water, talk to anyone familiar with residential water wells. If they happen to mention the need for a chemical kmown as "chlorine" donct assume the chemical is used to fight bacteria in the water. You may just be surprised why the need for it. Then there is potassium permanganate and "green sand" too....ewwww.

Yes there is byproduct waste produced by fracking that must be disposed of and I'll just leave it at that, perhaps for dicussion at another time.

However, tell me the frack water or byproducts from fracking being dumped at landfills leaches into the ground thereby making it into our streams and rivers and I'll suggest you study how landfills are designed and monitored by the EPA.

BTW.... returning the treated frack water back to the ground for disposal was working quite well in Ohio until the area was polluted with seismographic equipment producing seismograms every time a 40 ton truck hit a pothole.😉
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2019/11/03 17:01:16

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
#17
MyWar
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/03 17:47:27 (permalink)
BeenThereDoneThat.
"But what Wolf can’t see, is that his own Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) has allowed radioactive material from fracking waste to be discharged into that River through sewage facilities upstream." unquote.

HELLO?



It looks like you got past the headline but stopped after the third paragraph.

If you bother to read the entire article, it clearly outlines the process. I’ll summarize briefly:

Solid waste from gas drilling is being sent to municipal sanitary landfills. This solid waste consists of things like sludge, pipe scale and filtration sleeves. According to the article, an average of 800,000 tons of waste of this type is sent to PA landfills each year according to data reported to the PA DEP.

When rain falls on the landfills where this waste is stored, water soluble radionuclides from the waste leach out of the solid waste and end up in leachate. The contaminated leachate is then sent to sewage processing facilities, and because those facilities are unable to remove these industrial contaminants, the salts, metals, and radioactive elements from the leachate are getting released into directly into rivers.

According to the article it is estimated that between 547 million, to 1.6 billion gallons of such contaminated leachate from these landfills is sent to 15 sewage plants which discharge water into waterways.

Nowhere in the article does it claim that frack water is being sent directly to sewage facilities.

The article actually goes into considerable detail. It appears to be a very well researched piece of journalism. I highly suggest you read the whole thing.
#18
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/03 18:57:27 (permalink)
Mywar

You'll be best not to lecture me in the future on what I should read nor edit any quotes made by me.

Here is the quote I made regarding the exact paragraph as written by the author and not as you try making it appear I wrote.

The paragraph is clearly written to make it appear the radio active fracking water is dumped directly into the sewage plants.

Your editing of the quote makes it appear I made the statement.

====================================
I quote......

"But what Wolf can’t see, is that his own Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) has allowed radioactive material from fracking waste to be discharged into that River through sewage facilities upstream." unquote.

Plus the article goes on to mention "from 14 sewage plants".

====================================

The article also paints a picture that radio active materials are added to fracking water "and" all fracking waste is radio active.

I called you out on an outright lie made by you on another board and I called you out on your comment to dipNrip.

Find some other way to CYA.

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
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MyWar
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/03 19:17:25 (permalink)
BeenThereDoneThat.
Find some other way to CYA.


I don’t know what means and I’m not gonna bother to google it. You can chill with with the ad hominen stuff tho.

Even with all of the words in all of your posts in this thread so far, you still haven’t managed to address any of the points made by the authors of the article. I still doubt you’ve read it.

But boy oh boy you managed to work MAGA in to it, congrats.
#20
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/03 19:56:45 (permalink)
😝😝😝

I said Keep America Great Again.

Practice what you preach, "chill" with the ad hominen stuff, learn to read and address the points being made. Rebutals require facts, not opinion and not by attacking my character trying to cover your asz cause you got called out.

How'd I do, making my point? Hope It wasn't tooo ad hominen.

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
#21
MyWar
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/03 20:15:27 (permalink)
BeenThereDoneThat.
 Rebutals require facts, not opinion and not by attacking my character trying to cover your asz cause you got called out.




And you still haven't managed to post a actual rebuttal to any of the actual content in the actual article. But you've managed plenty of ill-informed ranting. And you've managed an attempt at deflection by bringing up bass in the Susquehanna...  
 
Please show to me one single thing I've posted that is inaccurate or misleading.
 
For that matter please show to me one single Republican that is willing to hold the gas industry accountable and protect our water? 
 
#22
MyWar
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/03 20:27:17 (permalink)
BeenThereDoneThat.
Add to that, no mention that the chemicals can be treated with the use of bacteria that break the chemicals down.

 
The article actually discusses this in some depth. Its mentioned quite early that the Belle Vernon plant quit taking the leachate because it was KILLING the bacteria in their system.
 
 
BeenThereDoneThat.
Yes there is byproduct waste produced by fracking that must be disposed of and I'll just leave it at that, perhaps for dicussion at another time.

 
That is literally the topic of the article: Disposal of byproduct waste at landfills, and how toxins from that waste might be getting into the drinking water. Seems like it would actually be appropriate to discuss it here, no?
 
 
BeenThereDoneThat.
However, tell me the frack water or byproducts from fracking being dumped at landfills leaches into the ground thereby making it into our streams and rivers and I'll suggest you study how landfills are designed and monitored by the EPA.



Actually, the authors of the article studied this exact thing. The article is a detailed description of how it happens. And they place the blame on the PA DEP not the EPA. Which you would have known, if you read the article.
#23
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/03 21:58:03 (permalink)
MyWar
BeenThereDoneThat.
Rebutals require facts, not opinion and not by attacking my character trying to cover your asz cause you got called out.




And you still haven't managed to post a actual rebuttal to any of the actual content in the actual article. But you've managed plenty of ill-informed ranting. And you've managed an attempt at deflection by bringing up bass in the Susquehanna...  
 
Please show to me one single thing I've posted that is inaccurate or misleading.
 
For that matter please show to me one single Republican that is willing to hold the gas industry accountable and protect our water? 
 


Mercy MyWar, chill with the ad hominen stuff.

My rebutals are about you and not, the opinion of some reporter looking to make a buck attacking the oil & gas industry ad hominen style.

Facts you say, what facts would like me to present that I caught you in an outright lie on another board.

What other facts do I need other than your actual post on this board that you are a bigot.

I mean who was it who said I should chill with the ad hominen stuff? When in reality you've tried your best to destroy my character.

Did you not try chastising me for mentioning, in your words MAGA. Then when I corrected you, inturn you try making a big deal with my use of EPA vs DEP? Not to forget it is you, now bringing Republicans into the mix. WASSUUP with that question anyway?

Back to facts vs opinion. Fact: I read the article, opinion: you accuse me of not reading the article. Fact: in your hate and discontent you try making me out to be a liar. Fact: I've proven you're a liar. Fact, I've proven you to use demeaning and condesending remarks in your responses on another board.

Yet you tell me to chill" with the ad hominen stuff.😝

Keep in mind, my response has been about you and using information within the article, only to bolster my rebutal, directly related to you.

You want to see a perfect example of ,ad hominen"....... look in a mirror.

I've no need to explain my other conversation on this board, you don't understand it, not my problem.

You certainly shown you can't tell the difference between making a reference and swaying a conversation.

Good evening.

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
#24
MyWar
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/03 22:36:58 (permalink)
BeenThereDoneThat.
I mean who was it who said I should chill with the ad hominen stuff? When in reality you've tried your best to destroy my character.


I’ve made no attacks on your character. I’ve only attacked the nonsense comments that you keep posting.
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BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/03 23:41:05 (permalink)
MyWar you couldn't hurt my character, much better people than you have tried.

As for you understanding my comments, next time I'll try the concept of indoctrination, maybe that will help you understand..... nahhhh.

Good evening.

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
#26
MyWar
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/05 12:36:08 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby crappiefisher 2019/11/05 16:34:23
So I can’t get that link to work now for whatever reason, but I should be able to fix later when I am not on mobile ....

If you copy / paste the link, you can read about an update on the DEP’s permit to allow leachate contaminated from coal ash to be discharged into the allegheny river near Warren (which I mentioned earlier in the thread). It’s an encouraging example of how intense public pressure can in fact move the needle on stuff like this, be it frack waste or coal byproducts or whatever.

In this case, the DEP has only agreed to re-draft the permit and extend the comment period, so a final decision has not been made. But it’s clearly a step in the right direction, and it goes to show that if you care about stuff like this, you should make your voice be heard.
#28
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/05 15:17:21 (permalink)
Do you even fish MyWar? Seems like all 58 posts of your "contributions" have been anti-Trump/political
#29
MyWar
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Re: Everything we know and loved ....... 2019/11/05 16:39:55 (permalink)
Of course I do. You really think somebody that has no interest in fishing would actively seek out and find these boards?
#30
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