State of the river

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Clint S
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2019/03/04 13:02:10 (permalink)

State of the river

There will be a new annual meeting starting on 4/11 at 630 at pulaski hs. It will be about the state of the salmon river and the river Fishery.

The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.  ~Babylonian Proverb


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    twobob
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    Re: State of the river 2019/03/06 11:38:08 (permalink)
    I'll leave this here.
    It seems the area between the 81 hole past the compactor is now in private hands.  The Tailwater has bought it.
     
    #2
    bigbear2012
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    Re: State of the river 2019/03/06 12:29:04 (permalink)
    wow, well they do have the money
     

    wishin i was fishin
    #3
    pafisher
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    Re: State of the river 2019/03/06 13:20:36 (permalink)
    twobob
    I'll leave this here.
    It seems the area between the 81 hole past the compactor is now in private hands.  The Tailwater has bought it.
     


    Another DSR,just what we need!! Why did n't the state buy it,or at least the fishing rights?
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    Lucky13
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    Re: State of the river 2019/03/06 14:52:49 (permalink)
    www.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_pdf/r7salrivpfr.pdf

    There's the maps.  If it does not have an easement, it's fair game.  But some of the water below 2a already has easements, so they can buy it all they want but it remains public fishing, as the easements are permanent.  But a lot of it was already posted and private for a while now, didn't some of it belong to the Native Americans from Verona.  It is also my recollection that some of the left bank below 2a was under easement on the older maps, and it is not showing on the ones on the website now, so maybe someone contested an easement in court and won.

    Good question for the State of the Salmon River meeting on April 11 (Thursday night) at 6:30 PM at the Pulaski High School, DEC said they are exploring options for add'l access at the SOL meeting on Monday. 

    While we're on access,. buyer's of Spyder Rybak's book on the river should be aware that he has a ton of mis- or bad information on what is and isn't public and private on the river.  You could end up with a heavy fine following all his advise.  And he is still saying that the river goes up during the day and down at night, so maybe he wrote the book 25 years ago, and didn't bother to update a lot.  He also says you can fish from a non anchored boat while floating through DSR, and I'm sure that will get you a ticket, the judge ruled that due to the details of Sr. Barcley's deed, the riparian rights in that section include fishing and belong to him.
    #5
    hot tuna
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    Re: State of the river 2019/03/06 18:17:40 (permalink)
    Thanks twobob.
    If its part of the property that once was Tony G ( Tony's salmon ) who actually tried to sue NYS for eliminating snagging , and lost then went out of business. Eventually sold to Ron who gave it a new life but again eventually closed and I'm not sure what's been happening with the property for quite awhile but I think it's a good deal for someone, like tailwater to take interest.
    Obviously the state did not.
    I also know the salmon egg lodging and cabins ( across from Whittaker) as well as the next stop up was an LLC corporation that both held private fishing rights but again both were above 2a and I don't think that's the property in question.
    Anyway, from what I see, the tailwater is not like the others, by that, they don't sell fishing " passes ". You must stay at their lodge which includes the fishing privilege on their property.

    "whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
    #6
    twobob
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    Re: State of the river 2019/03/07 14:12:46 (permalink)
    Yes Tuna the property rumored sold is from the compactor to around trooper.
    The pfr on the map lucky posted shows river right access from 2A down to the railroad after that who knows.
     
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    Lucky13
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    Re: State of the river 2019/03/08 08:58:48 (permalink)
    And on the left side below 2A,  we had multiple discussions about DEC public access signs on one side and some development companies posted signs on the other, despite those maps showing left bank access down to the island, which is not shown on the maps on the website now.  This worries me a lot because everyone from DEC has been saying all the easements are perpetual.
     
    But how does anyone KNOW this was sold or is it just more scuttlebutt?  Anyone look at a plat map just to see how many transactions it would take?  Of course, they may just be leasing access rights.  And, also of course, if the original deeds are not KIng's land grants or whatever Barclay has, the fishing rights may not be associated with the riparian properties, which in New York is how it should be, as the fish are not on the private stream bottom but are swimming in the water, which is the property of the people of the State of New York.  SO a boat should be able top at least plug through, or back row and fish floats.   I remember a whole big mishmash on the Oak when a couple of guys tried to open a pay for play, lets see what happens here.
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    twobob
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    Re: State of the river 2019/03/08 13:54:40 (permalink)
    A guy from Maine claims to have talked to a TW representative.
    He was told there is nothing finalized but they are in discussions.
     
    I doubt the King's grant is in play.
    So we may all need to buy boats and find someone to row us around soon.
     
    #9
    hot tuna
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    Re: State of the river 2019/03/08 14:17:07 (permalink)
    Or just stay at the TW for $60.00 apiece, enjoy some good real food , real beds, hit the spa and pool after fishing all while fishing their property without paying extra for a " pass".

    "whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
    #10
    twobob
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    Re: State of the river 2019/03/08 16:23:23 (permalink)
    Sounds like a great plan but I'm stuck in the 35 buck a night range.
    #11
    hot tuna
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    Re: State of the river 2019/03/08 17:48:57 (permalink)
    An extra 25 shouldn't break someone for better creature comforts over sleeping on a plush bed vs a sheet of plywood.
    I'm not wealthy by any means but I btdt far enough to deserve better

    "whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
    #12
    Clint S
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    Re: State of the river 2019/03/08 18:37:49 (permalink)
    Lucky13
    And on the left side below 2A,  we had multiple discussions about DEC public access signs on one side and some development companies posted signs on the other, despite those maps showing left bank access down to the island, which is not shown on the maps on the website now.  This worries me a lot because everyone from DEC has been saying all the easements are perpetual.
     
    But how does anyone KNOW this was sold or is it just more scuttlebutt?  Anyone look at a plat map just to see how many transactions it would take?  Of course, they may just be leasing access rights.  And, also of course, if the original deeds are not KIng's land grants or whatever Barclay has, the fishing rights may not be associated with the riparian properties, which in New York is how it should be, as the fish are not on the private stream bottom but are swimming in the water, which is the property of the people of the State of New York.  SO a boat should be able top at least plug through, or back row and fish floats.   I remember a whole big mishmash on the Oak when a couple of guys tried to open a pay for play, lets see what happens here.


    According to the map the property with the cottages or the old Tony's has not been sold but who knows how up to date it is. It is 5 areas behind Tony's, 32 acres behind the cottages and several residences dow to the compactor

    The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.  ~Babylonian Proverb


    #13
    hot tuna
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    Re: State of the river 2019/03/08 18:54:26 (permalink)
    First " rumor I heard was from clam shed up to 81.
    Second one, recently,.was 81 up to paper mill.
    I haven't looked at any pfr maps to even know what's available as I haven't fished those areas in quite awhile. Good areas indeed, I just been lazy.

    "whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
    #14
    twobob
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    Re: State of the river 2019/03/09 03:47:09 (permalink)
    hot tuna
    An extra 25 shouldn't break someone for better creature comforts over sleeping on a plush bed vs a sheet of plywood.
    I'm not wealthy by any means but I btdt far enough to deserve better

    Probably shouldn't but does. 
    But when you are up 2-3 days a week from mid Sept til mid Nov it adds up.
    For me that that's around $600.
    Not complaining just explaining!
    #15
    r3g3
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    Re: State of the river 2019/03/09 08:34:50 (permalink)
    Even parking and river access is already greatly diminished-without a long walk in many circumstances - in the areas in question here.
    In days of old ya could park across from the cemetery and walk in to the  more or less central part of the area and go up or down. No more.
    Heck, we used to stay at Whitakers ( original store and motel) and walk up to walkways  to the river- no more walkways - that said its very likely that those ways were abused with litter and such and closed by landowners or that they changed hands over time and new folks just didn't want the many guys walking their property lines.
    Much of the river is hard to get at compared to the ' old days' and further change is inevitable.
    IMHO rumors of sales and change regularly turn into reality over time.
    #16
    hot tuna
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    Re: State of the river 2019/03/09 11:20:43 (permalink)
    I agree and no explanation needed here. I'm just throwing options. Its different if you go frequently or infrequent.
    I'm the latter now.
    I could easily and still stay on the cheap.in my camping mode through November or rent a monthly room. .Once the darkness and snow comes on that hill I'm out of that and into other adventures.
    I'm not a frequent flier so comfort rules now that option is available.

    "whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
    #17
    twobob
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    Re: State of the river 2019/03/09 16:28:01 (permalink)
    I don't get up as much as in my youth but still 2 or 3 days a week thru the fall.
    The comforts are costly for a semi-retired old guy with a limited income.
     
    #18
    hot tuna
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    Re: State of the river 2019/03/09 17:41:59 (permalink)
    Fall is camping or getting lucky sharing a bunk
    Winter is for being comfy.
    Just saying.

    "whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
    #19
    hot tuna
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    Re: State of the river 2019/03/09 18:45:42 (permalink)
    twobob
    I don't get up as much as in my youth but still 2 or 3 days a week thru the fall.
    The comforts are costly for a semi-retired old guy with a limited income.
     


    If your doing 2 days a week in fall , then budget for sure.
    If your doing an infrequent trip during winter, why not just bite the bullet with a place to hang your waders to dry, try some craft brew and never put your key in the ignition to fish waters
    post edited by hot tuna - 2019/03/09 18:51:37

    "whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
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    hot tuna
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    Re: State of the river 2019/03/09 19:30:04 (permalink)
    Here is how it worked for me.
    I'd rent a room for 300 -350 a month. September and October.
    I rented a slip at marina for 500 a season and stayed on the boat from July-September. All that I considered free..
    Every single trip , every weekend not counting boat fuel, from here was at least 2-300 to and from.
    80 for fuel in the truck, 100 for food and aaccessory is a givin.
    post edited by hot tuna - 2019/03/09 19:38:46

    "whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
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    hot tuna
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    Re: State of the river 2019/03/10 18:33:36 (permalink)
    r3g3
    Even parking and river access is already greatly diminished-without a long walk in many circumstances - in the areas in question here.
    In days of old ya could park across from the cemetery and walk in to the  more or less central part of the area and go up or down. No more.
    Heck, we used to stay at Whitakers ( original store and motel) and walk up to walkways  to the river- no more walkways - that said its very likely that those ways were abused with litter and such and closed by landowners or that they changed hands over time and new folks just didn't want the many guys walking their property lines.
    Much of the river is hard to get at compared to the ' old days' and further change is inevitable.
    IMHO rumors of sales and change regularly turn into reality over time.


    I disagree.
    There is actually more public access than before.
    Back then it was a just follow the crowd to parking anywhere and everywhere. Most none of it was legal. The killer came when town of pulaski tried charging to park at ball park and black hole. That didn't last long. The other downfall was the drift boat invasion. That continues today.
    Now there are specific access parking lots.
    Some get busy but imo there are plenty.

    I'm not a snob by far but sometimes it's not a bad thing to get on restricted private waters. If the area in question were restricted, I'd fish them as part of my lodging fee. I don't fish them now as they are currently public access
    post edited by hot tuna - 2019/03/10 18:37:29

    "whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
    #22
    Lucky13
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    Re: State of the river 2019/03/11 10:44:34 (permalink)
    Only part of that area is public, and it will remain public as the State has easements.   It's not easy to access the right edge from 2 a, but it can be done, and it is public almost down to the trooper.  And I believe you can still walk the tracks by Schoeller back to the trestle, and get to the Right bank there.  The left bank is private, and has been for quite some time, so unless you had permission or were trespassing, this doesn't change anything.
    #23
    Clint S
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    Re: State of the river 2019/04/11 19:08:01 (permalink)
    New Parking lot black hole and wire holes, land purchased from village. They said there was more PFR added and they are working for more. It was a bit unclear where though. Looking at starting a study to project trout and Orwell steelhead reproduction as these are where most of the wild steelhead are coming from . Wild salmon Seine netting was very low in 2018. Atlantics were stocked from smelt reakeasepond at hatchery instead of lake and river for better imprint..
    post edited by Clint S - 2019/04/11 20:28:57

    The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.  ~Babylonian Proverb


    #24
    hot tuna
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    Re: State of the river 2019/04/11 19:45:38 (permalink)
    Thanks for the info Clint.
    I remember when dsr started charging, the village also charged a parking fee at black and ballpark. It only lasted 2 years.
    Any thoughts/feelings towards that in future ?
    While it's not highly welcomed but would a drifboat regulation/ usage seem reasonable ?

    "whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
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    Clint S
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    Re: State of the river 2019/04/11 19:46:48 (permalink)
    Complaints about stocking atlantics and skamania for summer fishery from everyone and Reasons why they want to continue. These are mostly Federally funded so they need to stop complaining (my take). Increased lamprey control as they are spawning further up river. They went over all t by e river restoration and rock placements

    The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.  ~Babylonian Proverb


    #26
    Clint S
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    Re: State of the river 2019/04/11 19:49:20 (permalink)
    DEC actually purchased the lot at DPW and in altmar to make more public lots so no charging there

    The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.  ~Babylonian Proverb


    #27
    Clint S
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    Re: State of the river 2019/04/11 19:59:36 (permalink)
    The new project at Ellis this summer they are blocking many side channels to promote greater flow during off peak flows. At peak flows water will spill into the side channels. Much bank erosion projects there too.

    The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.  ~Babylonian Proverb


    #28
    Clint S
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    Re: State of the river 2019/04/11 20:11:21 (permalink)
    Angler survey 101000 chinooks caught from survey. That's a lot of fish LOL 15000 cohort 30000 steelhead. States 80 % release rate for Steel and browns as nf CV lose to 100 for atlantics. This is for interviewed people

    The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.  ~Babylonian Proverb


    #29
    Clint S
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    Re: State of the river 2019/04/11 20:26:52 (permalink)
    More info on trout and Orwell. They are saying they will never be closed at this time as if they closed them for steel spawn season there would be too many fish for the system to handle in the number of young produced per habitat for them.

    The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.  ~Babylonian Proverb


    #30
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