Helpful ReplyHunting shows

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dpms
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2018/12/24 13:10:15 (permalink)

Hunting shows

Seems to be some strong feelings on this issue. I didn't want to cloud up the other thread with an off topic discussion so I thought I would start a different thread.
 
As far as I am concerned, I consider it hunting entertainment. I do not, and don't know anyone that believes that these shows represent real world hunting scenarios for the average person. I hear a lot of folks say "they should come to Pa to see what real hunting is". Do the folks that say that really feel that these shows are trying to pull off their hunts as a typical hunt across this country?

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BloodyHand
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/24 17:11:26 (permalink)
I can't watch them shows. It's not real life Pennsylvania hunting. I get zero value from those shows. They have nothing to offer anyone trying to learn how to hunt. But I am an NRA member, and receive American Hunter magazine. There you will find tons of info. on the how to's of hunting all species.
 
BH
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/24 23:00:04 (permalink)
I can't watch them either ....last one I watched the guy was arguing with his guide that the deer he's scoping and about to shoot better be a 20" spread or better.  Must have been 7 bucks along with 12 doe all feeding in a wide open field. Really ! That kind of stuff isn't even entertaining to me.
 
That's why I prefer fishing ....record size fish are open to all to go for on a fairly even playing field !
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/25 10:31:06 (permalink)
I don’t watch many either. Really, really enjoy Raised Hunting with David Holder. It’s about as close to real life hunting for most of us as those shows get. The focus is often on the intangibles of hunting - family, beauty, disappointment, exhilaration, hard work. It’s all DIY stuff.

I also enjoy watching shows with duck hunting. Can’t manipulate those birds with high fences and bait piles.

IMO most of those shows are one of the main reasons there’s so much focus in the hunting world on inches of antler and making the record books instead of simply enjoying the experience of the hunt.
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/25 12:03:51 (permalink)
Yea today with replicas any record size deer or fish can be yours . That's why I prefer skin mounts on trophy fish ....sorry. Too many fakes out there ! Plus replica fish just look way to fake to me no matter how good the form and paint job are..... just not as good IMO. 
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DarDys
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/25 15:01:45 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby crappiefisher 2018/12/25 21:45:37
I don’t regularity watch any of the hunting or fishing shows, but will hesitate, maybe stop, maybe watch for a while when channel surfing. And I kind of have a very different perspective than expressed this far.

The hunting is very real. The fishing is very real. It’s just not what most on this board have within their reality.

If one has the time, money, connections, ability, opportunity, or a combination of some or all of the preceding, every one of those situations can be real hunting and fishing for you. They just aren’t the norm for most of us. For those doing the shows, they are the norm.

For those fishing the west for steelhead, Erie isn’t real. Yet, for many on these boards, it is. Because we can.

For those that fish for stocked trout, that is real, but to others it isn’t.

For those that have fished the Deep South for bass, it is unreal compared to what those of us in Pennsyltucky experience, but for them, it is real.

For those plying the waters of most PA lakes for walleye, Erie is not real fishing for that species.

For those who hunt PGL, private ground isn’t real hunting. For most PA deer hunters, particularly those that never hunted elsewhere, baiting deer or bears isn’t real hunting. But for those that have always done it, there is nothing unreal about it.

I recall my Dad complaining that hunting pheasants with a pointing dog was cheating — because he hunted them by walking them up over miles and miles. That is until I bought pointers, then it became the norm.

For some reason, we tend to view hunting, fishing, wealth, work, life really, through our prism and those that have it better, or in some cases, just different, aren’t doing it right or aren’t being real or at least our real.

The reason no one comes to PA for their hunting shows (there were some excellent muzzleloader shows done in PA game lands by Dave Ehrig back when there were lots of deer) is because the hunting ducks to the point that they can’t come here in the time frame allotted and kill a deer of any substance — plain and simple. The shows would be boring as sitting on a stand and seeing nothing.

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anzomcik
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/25 15:28:00 (permalink)
DarDys IMO you hit this nail square on the head.
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/25 17:45:51 (permalink)
Yep... if hunting over bait piles and food plots is your cup of tea I can see where one would consider it a "norm" but "hunting" it shall "never" be.

IMO..... it reveals the weak who have a need to brag, about those "mounts" on the wall, and the expierence of it all.

In other words, look what I shot.

In closing, let me just say, Merry Christmas to all and to all, a good night.

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
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DarDys
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/25 21:23:16 (permalink)
BeenThereDoneThat.
Yep... if hunting over bait piles and food plots is your cup of tea I can see where one would consider it a "norm" but "hunting" it shall "never" be.

IMO..... it reveals the weak who have a need to brag, about those "mounts" on the wall, and the expierence of it all.

In other words, look what I shot.

In closing, let me just say, Merry Christmas to all and to all, a good night.


For some, using live bait fir fishing is the same as hunting over bait.

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BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/26 09:37:25 (permalink)
I find artificial baits soooo much more challenging, dont you Dardy's?

Jigs are my go to baits but I do try other look-a-like baits, from time to time.

I call it fishing, not catching. How about you?

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
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DarDys
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/26 10:57:27 (permalink)
I go hunting to shoot things and fishing to catch things. I do not do just to be out there. I find hunting without seeing things to shoot and fishing without catching boring and a total waste of my time. I guess I’m results oriented.

If I just want to be out there, I can do so without season restrictions, licenses, and a whole bunch of equipment.

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DarDys
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/26 11:31:02 (permalink)
Having guested on several fishing shows in the 90’s, there is a whole lot more to those shows than just going fishing or hunting with a camera running, especially if one does it for a living.

When we did fishing shows, they ran 30 minutes. Of that, 8 minutes were reserved for commercials, so we needed 22 minutes in the can. With 2 minutes on either end for introduction and closing, that meant 18 minutes of content.

To keep the show entertaining, we tried, but did not always succeed in limiting the show to 50% “B” roll material (canned stuff like casting, talking, running the boat, tying on/showing lyres, etc.). So, realistically, that meant 8-10 minutes of “good” action. And, that’s a lot.

Think about how much action, as in hooking, landing, releasing/boxing, actually takes place during one if your fishing trips. In order to get that 8-10 minutes, we probably needed 15-20 fish. Some just didn’t cooperate and the footage was junk. No one cared about the little ones (just like no one cares to watch a hunting show where does or cows or small males are the quarry), so they were edited out.

So typically, it took 2-3 days to get enough raw footage for a show — if the fishing was good.

Hunting shows, particularly big game would be worse. The actual action — spotting the game and shooting it — probably takes under a minute. That leaves a whole lot of filler time that unless there are other game animals involved, is just as boring as sitting in the woods not seeing anything.

Adding to the constraints for hunting shows is a limited time frame as well. Seasons are when they are (unless it is preserve hunting that has a more liberal time window) and one must make hay while the sun shines.

Imagine trying to shoot 13 (or 26 if lucky enough to book that many slots) during the limited time hunting seasons are in. Even excluding travel and bad weather days, there better be a critter hit the turf every other hunting day, every third day at worst, or the shows aren’t getting done.

Can that be done in PA? Maybe, but not consistently, and unlikely if the qualification of it being anything more than a scrub is tossed into the requirements.

Now, if one is trying to make an actual living at the outdoor show game, costs start to be paramount in the hunting equation. An acquaintance had an internet channel with his outdyshow on it. He gets equipment at a discount, but does not get paid by the sponsors. Nice, but not a living.

He looked into the Outdoor Channel and the cost was $60,000 for them to put on a single 13 show season with one repeat season. He got to keep 1/2 the advertising revenue from the shows, but he also had to guarantee a percentage of his sponsors would place ads.

The cost of production was all on him — travel, equipment, licenses, editing, etc. If the show survived 3 years, then there might be some consideration of the channel kicking in some of the production.

This is why they go to place where they cannot only guarantee action, both shooting and “B” roll filler, but can get it done in 1-2 days, hopefully with other species available at the same location (notice how many deer shows feature hogs or exotics from the same location).

It is meant to be entertaining, not the reality most of us face, which wouldn’t last 3 shows.

So take the shows for what they are and watch or don’t.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/26 11:41:46 (permalink)
It's easy to brag about trophy deer ,animals, or fish harvested when one has no competition such as so many TV pros or certain people we know. I'm far from jealous of such people, but I find their "bragging and justified opinions" annoying. I actually laugh at how good they think they are at such sports (mostly hunting) with little to no competition ever. Their pursuit is far from normal no matter how one looks at it or tries to justify it.
 
In fishing you have a much fairer playing field in pursuit of trophy fish as anyone , not so in a lot of hunting. In fishing most states won't recognize a trophy fish caught on private waters because of cheaters and no fair chase competition of the same species. I applaud that ! 
 
Shooting a trophy buck on private posted land over bait ....have at it ....but just don't brag because you ain't that good !
Shoot a trophy buck on free roaming public land ....your the man !             
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dpms
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/26 12:19:03 (permalink)
DarDys
Having guested on several fishing shows in the 90’s, there is a whole lot more to those shows than just going fishing or hunting with a camera running, especially if one does it for a living.

When we did fishing shows, they ran 30 minutes. Of that, 8 minutes were reserved for commercials, so we needed 22 minutes in the can. With 2 minutes on either end for introduction and closing, that meant 18 minutes of content.

To keep the show entertaining, we tried, but did not always succeed in limiting the show to 50% “B” roll material (canned stuff like casting, talking, running the boat, tying on/showing lyres, etc.). So, realistically, that meant 8-10 minutes of “good” action. And, that’s a lot.

Think about how much action, as in hooking, landing, releasing/boxing, actually takes place during one if your fishing trips. In order to get that 8-10 minutes, we probably needed 15-20 fish. Some just didn’t cooperate and the footage was junk. No one cared about the little ones (just like no one cares to watch a hunting show where does or cows or small males are the quarry), so they were edited out.

So typically, it took 2-3 days to get enough raw footage for a show — if the fishing was good.

Hunting shows, particularly big game would be worse. The actual action — spotting the game and shooting it — probably takes under a minute. That leaves a whole lot of filler time that unless there are other game animals involved, is just as boring as sitting in the woods not seeing anything.

Adding to the constraints for hunting shows is a limited time frame as well. Seasons are when they are (unless it is preserve hunting that has a more liberal time window) and one must make hay while the sun shines.

Imagine trying to shoot 13 (or 26 if lucky enough to book that many slots) during the limited time hunting seasons are in. Even excluding travel and bad weather days, there better be a critter hit the turf every other hunting day, every third day at worst, or the shows aren’t getting done.

Can that be done in PA? Maybe, but not consistently, and unlikely if the qualification of it being anything more than a scrub is tossed into the requirements.

Now, if one is trying to make an actual living at the outdoor show game, costs start to be paramount in the hunting equation. An acquaintance had an internet channel with his outdyshow on it. He gets equipment at a discount, but does not get paid by the sponsors. Nice, but not a living.

He looked into the Outdoor Channel and the cost was $60,000 for them to put on a single 13 show season with one repeat season. He got to keep 1/2 the advertising revenue from the shows, but he also had to guarantee a percentage of his sponsors would place ads.

The cost of production was all on him — travel, equipment, licenses, editing, etc. If the show survived 3 years, then there might be some consideration of the channel kicking in some of the production.

This is why they go to place where they cannot only guarantee action, both shooting and “B” roll filler, but can get it done in 1-2 days, hopefully with other species available at the same location (notice how many deer shows feature hogs or exotics from the same location).

It is meant to be entertaining, not the reality most of us face, which wouldn’t last 3 shows.

So take the shows for what they are and watch or don’t.



Truth. Most have no clue what it takes to put a show together and the costs associated with it. 

My rifle is a black rifle
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dpms
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/26 13:13:09 (permalink)
CAPTAIN HOOK
It's easy to brag about trophy deer ,animals, or fish harvested when one has no competition such as so many TV pros or certain people we know. I'm far from jealous of such people, but I find their "bragging and justified opinions" annoying. I actually laugh at how good they think they are at such sports (mostly hunting) with little to no competition ever. Their pursuit is far from normal no matter how one looks at it or tries to justify it.
 
Shooting a trophy buck on private posted land over bait ....have at it ....but just don't brag because you ain't that good !
Shoot a trophy buck on free roaming public land ....your the man !             



 
I do agree that the bragging, or the appearance of bragging, is in very poor taste. Most of those guys and girls do recognize how lucky they are to make a living out of hunting or fishing and are humble. It just take a few morons to taint the whole works, though. 

My rifle is a black rifle
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DarDys
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/26 13:51:18 (permalink)
What gets me is that one would think, from viewing the shows, that nobody from north of the Mason-Dixon Line knows how to hunt or fish. 😀

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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/26 14:00:22 (permalink)
The one hunting show I watched years ago the pro hunters were taking a tour of the Texas land they were going to hunt the next day. It was a 10,000 acre private owned land parcel heavily posted and patrolled (of course they don't show that ). They were riding on the feeder tractor unit as it rolled down through the fields spreading grain feed. The deer were seen coming out almost immediately as the tractor rolled along the field edges. Needless to say all hunters were very successful the next day at shooting nice size bucks.
(Whew ...another tough hunt on film boys ! )..... $$$ cha-ching
 
More trophies for the taxidermy man too ! ..... spreading the wealth
 
At least they showed the true scenario before the hunt....you can bet some other pro staff hunters were mad at that not being edited out !....lol   
 
Tink's 69 after shave lotion for hunters ....works every time ! You should try some BTDT !    
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/26 14:38:01 (permalink)
Packing list for pro deer hunters getting ready 
 
1. Stack of new posted "No Trespassing" signs (gift for land owner )
2. 50lbs. of corn soaked in deer cocaine ( just in case it's too slow )
3. sun glasses ( at least 3 pair ....really like the blue mirrored ones )
4. camo hat
5. T shirt that says Get R Dun !
6. NRA tote bag 
7. gun
8. more corn
9. bow
10.knife 

 
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DarDys
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/26 14:46:02 (permalink)
I saw one where the grandson of the founders of LL Bean was hunting pronghorn antelope. I about lost it when he said, “We hunted hard all day yesterday. We drove for over 7 hours looking for the right one and didn’t find it.”

And he didn’t mean drive as in chasing animals with drivers toward posters. He literally meant drove, as in a truck.

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mr.crappie
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/26 14:51:23 (permalink)
IMO, These shows are just infomercials almost any of us could do the same if we had the time & money.Look at the equip. that they get suckers to buy.I would be ashamed to have to resort to some of the things that they sell in order to kill a animal with a brain the size of an egg. The absolute worse in my opin. is the Ozone machines. Think also of all the gadgets that we managed to win wars with lesser equip. which includes most of the electronics,range finders,guns & scopes that you can kill with at 600-700 yds & farther. also it seems that all of the pros hawk their own brand of super-dooper buck lure,but you almost never see a buck coming in to it.Then the advent of inexpensive trail cameras that lets you pattern what time the deer will likely show up. Can't anyone come up with a gadget that gives the deer some advantage for once? On a show that I watched once a pro answered a question pertaining to why they don't come here to hunt public land, he said that you can't kill them if they aren't here. He said that if you want to shoot big bucks you have to hunt where they are. They are in to this era of deer farming that some consider hunting to-day. I am not. The pros are able to take advantage of free hunts for the value of millions of people getting to see what the outfitters have to offer.   sam
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Big Tuna
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/26 15:26:58 (permalink)
DarDys,couldn't agree more Bill Gorman LL Beans great grandson is the worst TV hunter there is. He has access to the best European guns and scopes and hunting spots and is just terrible. He's not really a hunter and can't hit the broad side of a barn. He seldom make a clean kill shot and doesn't know anything about how to hunt. I even took time to Email the show about his lack of experience. He really shouldn't be on Tv.
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/26 15:57:06 (permalink)
Eastman's Hunting Journal, and Jim Shockey's  Uncharted are the two shows I watch.
 
 
With Eastman's it is all public land hunts out west, and usually done DIY or minimal film crew following the hunter. That show seems pretty legit.
 
Shockey obviously is very rich, but man some of the places they go is insane, and they do a great job with cinemtology.
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/26 16:44:41 (permalink)
Agree.....Eastman films are about the best I seen years ago ....public free chase hunts. A+
 
Friends of mine were deer hunting over in Iowa.....they watched the pro film trucks pull up to a private farm near them . They were told nobody else is allowed to hunt that property ever except those so called pros. Deer farming without fences is all it is !
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DarDys
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/27 06:53:19 (permalink)
My vote for the worst outdoor show was when they revived one of the first and one of the best “The American Sportsman” with Deon Saunders as the host in place of the venerable Curt Gowdy.

The show I remember the most was Saunders hooking into a tarpon, not a particularly large one either, and after a few minutes handing the rod to the other former NFL player staring the he was tired of fighting the fish and he actually laid down to take a nap in the boat.

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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/27 09:26:49 (permalink)
Nice flashback "The American Sportsman"....the TV start of it all. 
 
The one episode they were fishing in the southern Gulf catching bigger fish when suddenly the Spanish speaking guide was handed the rod as they were unhooking a fish and the hooks accidently got buried into the star's (forget who it was ) hand bigtime ! The Spanish guy just kept bouncing the rod up and down not seeing exactly what was going on and the hooked guy was screaming "No Pullo...No Pullo ! It was hilarious !
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DarDys
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/27 10:00:40 (permalink)
Back in the Stone Age when I was a kid, there was a traveling group that would bring outdoor films to schools and sportsmen’s clubs. I want to say it was Galloping Galloway or something like that.

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mr.crappie
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/27 10:23:38 (permalink)
darDys Could it be "gadabout gaddis" or Wally Taber used to come around to school gymnasiums My favorite was when I saw Fred bear shoot a brown bear that was on a beach with a long bow with only a rock between them.They showed that with a lethal hit that a arrow will kill in approx. 12 seconds They superimposed a clock face that started when he hit the bear then showed the countdown. That bow sure looked small compared to that bear. I am sure that Fred had a gun toting guide but, that sure was ballsy.  sam
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DarDys
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/27 11:12:42 (permalink)
That was it — Gadabout Gaddis. A fellow my Dad used to work with was part of his crew, kind of like Jim Fowler to Marlin Perkins on Mutual of Omaga’s Wild Kingdom.

BTW, my veterinarian worked for Fowler while in vet school. He claims that both Fowler and Perkins were big time hunters and spent most of the time that they traveled for the show hunting.

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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/27 12:37:32 (permalink)
I like those flashback names.....ever see the episode where Perkins was wrapped up with that giant Anaconda snake....if his muscle man partner Stan didn't show up and help.... Marlin was done for !
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vT3GOc9Zgo
 
Fred Bear in action......Grizzly hunt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1swqv9fzGiM&list=PLSZABuF3YkhQrj1kuw8nz0Vz8OnKo8-pa
post edited by CAPTAIN HOOK - 2018/12/27 12:57:34
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DarDys
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Re: Hunting shows 2018/12/27 13:05:22 (permalink)
Or the old joke as Marlin says, “While Jim wrestles the giant, black rhino, I’ll work my way back to camp and mix up some margaritas with the native girls.”

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
#30
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