thunderpole
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/19 13:27:57
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I'd rather be lucky then good,but im to good to be lucky
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BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/19 14:14:26
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I'm gonna miss yinz guyz.........😂😂😂
"NOT". 🍻
Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
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dpms
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/20 12:26:24
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rsquared
I think Sunday hunting would be the real game changer for at least keeping more involved. Not sure it would help with getting new hunters involved, but sure would provide a nice opportunity. Having a Saturday opener with Sunday hunting would be really nice, and I imagine the guys that I know who visit camp less frequently than they used to would probably welcome the opportunity.
I've been on the fence on Sunday hunting. I personally would love it, and I can't tell you how many Sunday afternoons after church thinking, "Man, it sure would be nice to be able to hunt this afternoon with nothing else on our schedule."
Sunday hunting has a real chance this coming year in the legislature. The tide has been slowly turning. The head of the House Game and Fish Committee used to be against it and held up legislation in the committee. He has changed his mind and wants to move it forward.
post edited by dpms - 2018/12/20 12:28:29
My rifle is a black rifle
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psu_fish
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/21 08:32:25
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Sunday hunting will pull a few guys back in, but it will not buck the downward trend.
I typically hunt 4 days in general firearms. Opener, the 2 Saturdays, and the Friday before the final day. By going to the Saturday opener, I will hunt the presumed 3 Saturdays, and maybe the final Friday. So I will save one vacation day at least, to use for fishing with family or summer vacation road trip. Sounds like a win to me.
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/21 09:59:37
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psu I agree .......I hunt about the same maybe slightly more....seeing deer move on their own is tough during the week in rifle season with no hunters.....your success percentages are low.
I vision the PGC next attempt will be a bonus buck tag lottery with a limited amount of tags....similar to the Elk drawings ...no refunds. You heard it here first !
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mr.crappie
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/21 11:07:17
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capt., West Va. has let hunters buy x-tra buck tags before the season for years now,bow & gun. It is pretty popular there. sam
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/21 17:12:49
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Sam, do they have antler restrictions ? Probably not I'm guessing with the bonus buck tags.
PGC tries to raise big deer to lure in more hunters....but there are way less bucks to shoot.
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mr.crappie
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/21 18:56:55
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capt. When we hunted there past few years we hunted "coopers rock) state forest until they put a 14 or 15" minimum on bucks. Most of the rest of W.V. is open with 3" or more,like we used to have & sunday hunting in a lot of the state. sam
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Big Tuna
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/21 18:57:50
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I went to WV for years. No antler rules 3" spike is legal. You can kill a pile of deer down there. I'm pretty sure it 7 for non resident. I shot a lot of bucks there, always a fun trip. We camped in 3 big tents in Randolph county. I seldom saw a hunter,we drove 4 wheel drive vehicle 7 miles up a logging road and camped at and old saw mill that operated around 1900. Only year I didn't kill a buck,I was sick as a dog with bronchitis and cough every 30 seconds.lol Many year I shot two bucks. The thing is this out of state hunting is becoming a pain with not being able to bring a deer into the state,because of wasting away disease.
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pheasant tail 2
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/21 22:01:27
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As much as I hate to say this...……….. Saturday openers, Sunday Hunting, the inclusion of semi-autos, etc al. will not rescue hunting from its downfall. Hunting is a dying sport. I love hunting. Turkey hunting (spring & fall), deer hunting, kicking the bush for bunnies, I'm there. Unfortunately there are not enough youngens joining our ranks. That is a fact. I'm one of the youngsters in our deer camp at whooping 54 years of age.
Solve the recruitment issue, batman and we'll have winner. These proposals do nothing more the provide additional opportunities to those that already support our cause.
PT2
PT2
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/21 23:34:20
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No doubt hunting is fading away and so have the hunting areas . Can't drive a country mile and not see posted signs both sides of roads . I lived in a small town and grew up on small game hunting. All the areas we walked and hunted are gone .....all buildings and houses for years now. All the areas we hunted several miles away are the same posted or just gone. When your young and you live in town and have to drive 15 miles away just to hunt it becomes not as fun. Plus the areas you are allowed to hunt are crowded or over hunted.
When I hunted spring turkey I'd drive an average of about 25 miles one way daily. But I enjoyed the sport. How many young city hunters will do that steady .....plus gas at 3 bucks a gallon.
Big T you've been around in your day !.....lol Good comments too !
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mr.crappie
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/22 00:22:22
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Anyone that thinks Pa. laws are confusing should check the deer regs. in W.V. They do have pluses & minuses as do other states. My son & I have done very well at Coopers Rock almost every year & in fact the year that I quit going there we got 2 of the biggest of year there. I quit because I didn't then or now believe in A.R. I tried to tell the DNR ranger about how many of us non-residents they were going to lose because of Coopers being a border town that most hunters there were PA. hunters. When we left they lost over $500 that we used to spend just for the 2 of us,but to no avail. My prediction came true as the first year of the 14" the parking lots were almost empty. Although I got another buck it just happened to be bigger than the min. I think this is in what they call "older buck reg." Ranger told me it was easier to tell if a bucks antlers was wider than it's ears thus being legal. I do miss the easy pick'ns & only wish that they would have opened wild boar hunting to non-res. I think that there are approx. 6or7 of those areas in the state now. sam
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dpms
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/22 08:35:57
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CAPTAIN HOOK
I vision the PGC next attempt will be a bonus buck tag lottery with a limited amount of tags....similar to the Elk drawings ...no refunds. You heard it here first !
Well, I have been asking for a limited draw special antlered muzzleloader tag for the early muzzleloader season for a few years now. $20 to apply for 10,000 special tags. It was would raise some revenue, generate lots of interest, give the muzzleloader folks a legitimate chance at a buck in a muzzleloader season, and only result in a few thousand additional antlered bucks harvested max.
My rifle is a black rifle
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dpms
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/22 08:41:26
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pheasant tail 2
As much as I hate to say this...……….. Saturday openers, Sunday Hunting, the inclusion of semi-autos, etc al. will not rescue hunting from its downfall. Hunting is a dying sport. It is. The folks that are leaving are most likely a lost cause. We should not focus on them so much. We need to focus on the hunters that we have and provide as much opportunity as we can and remove any barriers in place to get them out there whenever they can, while making sure we keep our resources healthy.
post edited by dpms - 2018/12/22 08:46:28
My rifle is a black rifle
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/22 09:41:06
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dpms
It is. The folks that are leaving are most likely a lost cause. We should not focus on them so much. We need to focus on the hunters that we have and provide as much opportunity as we can and remove any barriers in place to get them out there whenever they can, while making sure we keep our resources healthy.
I agree, but restricting hunters from shooting (AR) is not creating an opportunity it becomes discouraging after years. I personally did not see a buck while rifle hunting this year in 5 days hunting in Crawford county. I personally did not see a really decent size rack buck killed this year with all my friends and contacts. I can't see how AR's have worked to improve deer hunting at all. I have pictures of pre AR bucks (not mine ) that would knock the socks off of most deer hunters today, but back then we had no internet , digital cameras , smart phones to show off these monsters. Haven't seen much of a big change since AR's started ,but I do see a lot of hunters coming back empty and discouraged from hunting local and mountain areas.
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dpms
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/22 10:54:48
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CAPTAIN HOOK
I agree, but restricting hunters from shooting (AR) is not creating an opportunity it becomes discouraging after years. I personally did not see a buck while rifle hunting this year in 5 days hunting in Crawford county. I personally did not see a really decent size rack buck killed this year with all my friends and contacts. I can't see how AR's have worked to improve deer hunting at all.
ARs were meant to change the age structure of our deer herd, which it has. Herd reduction, which began at the same time, reduced our population. A lower population also means less bucks out there to hunt, compared to pre AR/HR. That is statewide. Local populations can be higher or lower, of course. If you look at success rates on antlered deer. They are not much different now than prior to AR/HR. We have less deer hunters for sure, but they are finding and killing bucks at about the same rate as previously.
My rifle is a black rifle
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DarDys
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/22 11:47:32
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dpms
CAPTAIN HOOK
I agree, but restricting hunters from shooting (AR) is not creating an opportunity it becomes discouraging after years. I personally did not see a buck while rifle hunting this year in 5 days hunting in Crawford county. I personally did not see a really decent size rack buck killed this year with all my friends and contacts. I can't see how AR's have worked to improve deer hunting at all.
ARs were meant to change the age structure of our deer herd, which it has. Herd reduction, which began at the same time, reduced our population. A lower population also means less bucks out there to hunt, compared to pre AR/HR. That is statewide. Local populations can be higher or lower, of course.
If you look at success rates on antlered deer. They are not much different now than prior to AR/HR. We have less deer hunters for sure, but they are finding and killing bucks at about the same rate as previously.
Bull. That may be true based on the PGC cooked numbers, but empirically it isn’t so. It was a rare year when one of my hunting circle didn’t kill a buck (and does when permissible) and we rode them hard until the next season. For about the last five years, especially, it is rare for more than one to actually get a buck. Further, it is not unusual for 75% not to get a doe. And it’s not because we are seeing a ton of young bucks that just need to grow. We are seeing no bucks. We are seeing darn few does. And all but two of us are hunting private property in semi rural agricultural areas. I just am not buying the success rate is the same.
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/22 12:16:00
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Figures are juggled to make things appear the same.... such as using rates. Facts are way less bucks are seen or shot now days plain and simple. I'm not looking for rates when I'm hunting I'm looking to shoot bucks as all hunters are. The PGC can tell me all their BS I know what I see and what was pre AR's. I don't care how old a deer is because most are dead or killed before 3 years old.
When you hunt out of a camp with 5-6 guys ( all decent hunters ) and nobody gets a buck in the past five years and the camps around are all about the same there is a major hunting problem. There were years steady that bucks were seen hanging on camp deer poles all around....no more ! The PCG has more excuses and lies , but they have added greatly to the down plunge in hunting interest.
I still want to know why the difference of 3 up as to 3 on the side ?
Once again a "stupid regulation" that just creates more confusion to hunters on our western side !
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/22 12:48:32
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Local buck ....pre AR....LOL......Gary Alt ! More hunters too ! 
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dpms
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/22 12:48:59
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Hey guys. I was just relaying the info. Yes, many question the PGC's numbers. A commissioner caught the biologists trying to twist numbers one year at a BOC meeting. The biologist did admit that the data he was using was tilted to make the numbers more favorable to his position.
My rifle is a black rifle
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dpms
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/22 12:50:25
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CAPTAIN HOOK
When you hunt out of a camp with 5-6 guys ( all decent hunters ) and nobody gets a buck in the past five years and the camps around are all about the same there is a major hunting problem. There were years steady that bucks were seen hanging on camp deer poles all around....no more ! The PCG has more excuses and lies , but they have added greatly to the down plunge in hunting interest.
Sounds like deer numbers are down there for sure. But, you have to understand that success may be better in other areas to make up it decreasing in yours.
My rifle is a black rifle
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Moses Guthrie
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/22 13:55:26
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I mostly hunt 2B and 2D both public and private land and can say AR has not impacted my party's success rate on bucks. It was usually 4 or 5 of us out of 6 that would get a buck each year and that hasn't changed. What has changed is how we are successful in rifle season. Gone are the days of seeing big numbers of deer from other Hunter movement. We are much more reliant on deer drives now.
I also hunted portions of 2F in the 80s n 90s, saw the herds of deer and many deer killed in those days. My buddy bought a piece of land 4 years ago in 2F near the ANF and I started bear and some deer hunting again there. The deer are not back there like the hey day but every day hunting deer or bear we had no issues putting up double digits of deer with some dandy bucks and we never see another person.
Not doubting anyone's experience and don't disagree with the view of most of the PGC, but there are some places still around with very good deer populations anyone can hunt.
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BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/22 18:16:30
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dpms
Sounds like deer numbers are down there for sure. But, you have to understand that success may be better in other areas to make up it decreasing in yours.
Precisely as explained by Gary Alt during a PGC meeting held in Rocky Grove. The goal is to move the predator to the prey and it has worked as evidenced by the numbers of acres of forest and field, now posted. If there are numbers to be believed, you can sure as hell believe the numbers of pristine hunting acres, now posted. Posted signs don't lie.
Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~ Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way.
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lost sage rod sectio
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/23 00:14:20
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Deer hunting has gone from fair chase hunting to build a stand, feed them apples all summer and on the first day of rifle or bow season when the Pet deer comes for his apple the great white hunter shoots him and puts his picture up for all to see like he has done something . This sounds like sour grapes but I have lived it in the good time and seen it go to hell there is no way to white wash it Pa deer hunting isn't what it was. The train is off the track and they can't get it back.!!!!!!! 
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/23 00:39:15
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dpms ,I'm not tying to argue personally with you just expressing what I've seen in the areas we've hunted over the years. I appreciate your knowledge on the latest hunting proposals and stats....keep us informed.
I hate the AR's because they make most good rifle hunters hesitate to shoot because you have to be 100% sure especially in 1A. It gets frustrating when this continues year after year. I've had some decent bucks moving through the woods in range, but I'll be dam# if I can say 100% it's legal....so I pass. I know some who say they shoot then look (not good ).
lost sage you speak some truth....I know a few archery hunters who have special food plots all summer right within their stands...of course it's all well posted for none to see !
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/23 00:57:03
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How about those pro hunters on TV shows ....their all so phony I can't watch them.
Hunting on patrolled posted areas hundreds or thousands of acres big , food plots and feeders everywhere ,in heated tree stands that look like small cabins . Then after they shoot a ten point buck feeding with about 20 other deer on a wide mowed fire lane , they say what a tough hunt this was ! Then when they are off camera they pull out the check book and pay the piper !...LMAO
How sad hunting has become in some areas....rich man's $port !
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dpms
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/23 08:19:55
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CAPTAIN HOOK
dpms ,I'm not tying to argue personally with you just expressing what I've seen in the areas we've hunted over the years. I appreciate your knowledge on the latest hunting proposals and stats....keep us informed. No worries. I didn't see it that way. I was just adding some thoughts on the subject from a different point of view. I hate the AR's because they make most good rifle hunters hesitate to shoot because you have to be 100% sure especially in 1A. It gets frustrating when this continues year after year. I've had some decent bucks moving through the woods in range, but I'll be dam# if I can say 100% it's legal....so I pass. I know some who say they shoot then look (not good ).
For sure. I have let quite a few bucks walk, not being sure if they were legal or not. One was especially nice but I couldn't put brow tines on it when we had the 4 on a side rule.
My rifle is a black rifle
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dpms
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/23 08:32:40
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Here are some harvest and hunters numbers to compare.
2000 - 203,000 antlered deer taken by an estimated 1,000,000 deer hunters. Success rate
of 20%.
2017 - 163,000 antlered deer taken by an estimated 725,000 deer hunters. Success rate of
22%.
2017 - 63,000 antlered deer taken by 350,000 archery hunters. Success rate of 18%.
My rifle is a black rifle
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/23 08:41:46
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Wow ...what a drop all around...never realized that much....thanks
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BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Saturday rifle deer opener possible
2018/12/23 10:05:06
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Capt. I hear you on the "Great TV Hunters" (legends in their own mind) and I agree except, it's they who are the Piper being paid.
Those people have everything served up for free, including that for any staffing.
While it looks to be a "dream come true" for anyone loving to hunt, those guys live a tough life and one, I wouldn't want to live.
Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~ Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way.
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