Peacock sword or hearl

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Pgh Kid
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2008/02/11 14:53:20 (permalink)

Peacock sword or hearl

I am about to start tying some zug bugs and I did a pattern search on them on google.

Some say to use the sword for the tail  and some say to use hearl for the tail.

All say to use the hearl for the body. Is there that much difference between using the peacock sword and the peacock hearl for the tail.

Also I assume that if you use 6 pieces of the hearl for the tail that after they are tied in you can tie in your flay silver tinsle then just wrap the hearl from the tail for the body. Is this correct?

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    Green Weenie
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    RE: Peacock sword or hearl 2008/02/11 14:56:46 (permalink)
    Use the sword......makes a much nicer looking tail than herl!

    fly fish....save a worms life
    #2
    flirod4evr
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    RE: Peacock sword or hearl 2008/02/11 15:34:41 (permalink)
    Since herl is squared off on the end it doesnt make very good tails. but you want to tien in the swords for the tail then the tinsel then the herl. wrap the herl then the tinsel then whatever the pattern calls for next cant remember that recipe off teh top of my head.
     

    I'm very familiar with the terms "RUN AND GUN" and "FISH ON!"

    "They're in here I can smell 'em"
    #3
    chrome
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    RE: Peacock sword or hearl 2008/02/11 17:56:48 (permalink)
    Use the swords for the tail as mentioned.  But I'd recommend using oval tinsel for the rib, it'll be easier and look neater.

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    #4
    saltflyfisher
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    RE: Peacock sword or hearl 2008/02/11 18:09:38 (permalink)
    Wrap the rib the opposite from the body material. If you don't the rib gets lost in the body, and the rib will help keep the herl together for more than one fish.

    You can also make a dubbing brush w/ using copper wire and herl. Cut equal lengths of wire and herl(4 pieces of herl) If you have a hot wax style pot you can dip the ends in it as a group , let it dry and mount to the hook, lightly twist the materials together w/o breaking them and install on the hook as normal. Then rib it w/ the tinsel. You'll get a lot of strength w/ this style of tie.
    #5
    Pgh Kid
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    RE: Peacock sword or hearl 2008/02/11 21:25:57 (permalink)
    Great tips

    thanks
    #6
    luvinbluegills
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    RE: Peacock sword or hearl 2008/02/11 22:29:13 (permalink)
    Oval tinsel is the best ribbing, and the difference between herl and sword is that sword is wider and brighter than herl, and comes to a point.

    The Zug Bug is one of my top 4 go to nymphs for fishing ponds and lakes.  For the flies that I fish I use herl for the tail, and only four. I build them in this order:

    tie in thread
    add weight wraps
    tie in oval tinsel
    tie in herl
    wrap herl
    wrap rib
    add legs
    add "wingcase"
    post edited by luvinbluegills - 2008/02/11 22:31:26

    Faith is only as good as its object
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    #7
    SteelyShawn
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    RE: Peacock sword or hearl 2008/02/14 13:54:32 (permalink)
    Saltylfyfisher,
     
    Never heard of that does it look different too?

    Somebody just back of you while you are fishing is as bad as someone looking over your shoulder while you write a letter to your girl. ~Ernest Hemingway
    #8
    flirod4evr
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    RE: Peacock sword or hearl 2008/02/14 14:15:02 (permalink)
    It makes it look tighter, thats about it. You know how when you wrap 2 or 3 strans of herl there is a gap from the width of the quill, this eliminates it. Also as said before It is a little more durable.

    I'm very familiar with the terms "RUN AND GUN" and "FISH ON!"

    "They're in here I can smell 'em"
    #9
    saltflyfisher
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    RE: Peacock sword or hearl 2008/02/14 16:42:17 (permalink)
    Thanks for the response back to steely. Couldn't have said it better myself.
    ORIGINAL: flirod4evr

    It makes it look tighter, thats about it. You know how when you wrap 2 or 3 strans of herl there is a gap from the width of the quill, this eliminates it. Also as said before It is a little more durable.
    #10
    Sculpin 14
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    RE: Peacock sword or hearl 2008/02/15 08:02:22 (permalink)
    I tie all my nymphs without using tinsel or ribing, as far as I'm conserned its a waist of time, I really dont think is makes much difference, plus when was the last time you've seen nymph with shiny gold, siver, or copper on them.......

    May the holes in your net be no larger than the fish in it.

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    #11
    chrome
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    RE: Peacock sword or hearl 2008/02/15 08:49:35 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Sculpin 14

    I tie all my nymphs without using tinsel or ribing, as far as I'm conserned its a waist of time, I really dont think is makes much difference, plus when was the last time you've seen nymph with shiny gold, siver, or copper on them.......


    Never saw one with a hook hanging out of its butt either.

    Some of my best, well all of my best, patterns have very un-natural features.  Sometimes its better to stand apart a little bit than to look like everything else drifting by.

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    #12
    Sculpin 14
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    RE: Peacock sword or hearl 2008/02/15 10:01:21 (permalink)
    I just think it adds time to tying I was told by a fly shop owner once that certain patterns are tied to catch fisherman, and all the added bells and whistles are not necessary to catch fish.

    May the holes in your net be no larger than the fish in it.

    http://flickr.com/photos/fellowshipanglerleague/
    #13
    Sculpin 14
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    RE: Peacock sword or hearl 2008/02/15 10:10:35 (permalink)
    I'm not saying I don't use synthetics, I just think its quicker to tie a fly with out shinny ribbing, like hare's ears, princes, zugs, p.t., ect, now scuds and such I do use ribbing but usually mono., copper johns are about the only thing I use ribbing for unless I am in a swap I usually tie the pattern to the original recipe....

    May the holes in your net be no larger than the fish in it.

    http://flickr.com/photos/fellowshipanglerleague/
    #14
    saltflyfisher
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    RE: Peacock sword or hearl 2008/02/15 17:10:30 (permalink)
    It has nothing to do w/ the overall color of the ribbing but what it is suppose to imitate. The flash is there to resemble water drops or air pockets trapped in the flies body, legs or gills.
    ORIGINAL: Sculpin 14

    I tie all my nymphs without using tinsel or ribing, as far as I'm conserned its a waist of time, I really dont think is makes much difference, plus when was the last time you've seen nymph with shiny gold, siver, or copper on them.......
    #15
    flirod4evr
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    RE: Peacock sword or hearl 2008/02/15 22:13:19 (permalink)
    You know the ribs wouldn't be there if they didint serve a purpose. As salty said it imitates air bubbles. Real nymphs because of there exoskeloton reflect light, almost all of the materials we use for nymphs don't...except for the tinsels and bright ribbings. Think of a lafontaine's sparle emergent, with it's bright antron/z-lon etc. case on the outside. This looks nothing like the trapped air bubble in the pupas exoskeltal shuck they use to emerge to the suface. To the trout it looks exactly like it. Even if thes materials we put in our nymphs and streamers and dry flies doesn't look like anything to us it looks like something in nature to the trout. Again, think of a royal wulff. Have you ever seen a mayfly with brite white wings and a body with bright green fat ends and a skinny red center? No? neither have I nor has the trout because it doesnt exsist. But time and time again flyfisherman all over the world catche many trout on this tried and true pattern. I guess what I'm trying to say is it might not look like anything to us but it looks like something to the trout, you can't look at a pattern through a persons eyes because we arent trying to fool people into thinking this white wulff is a white mayfly we are trying to fool the trout. When you start being able to see a pattern or any type of fishing tackle through the fishes eyes you stop being good and start becoming great. How do you think all these great patterns that dont immitate specific insects came about, the creater saw the fly through the eyes of the fish and not through his own. Just somethin' to chew on.
    post edited by flirod4evr - 2008/02/15 22:16:43

    I'm very familiar with the terms "RUN AND GUN" and "FISH ON!"

    "They're in here I can smell 'em"
    #16
    luvinbluegills
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    RE: Peacock sword or hearl 2008/02/15 23:40:08 (permalink)
    There are quite a few nymphs, especially stonefly nymphs, whose abdominal segmenting is very sharply distinguished by dark and light. I think the shiny stuff helps represent the reflection off the chitin of the body.

    Faith is only as good as its object
    Adventures with Fish
    #17
    Pgh Kid
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    RE: Peacock sword or hearl 2008/02/16 08:00:01 (permalink)
    Often the rib serves other purposes also. It can be the the material that holds the fly together such as with peacock. The ribbing material  helps the fly stay together after several hits. Everyone to =day seams to want to go towards more realistic flies such as the wiggle nymph. Here we have someone who actually goes the other way by ommitting the ribbing which is the body segments.


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    chrome
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    RE: Peacock sword or hearl 2008/02/16 08:25:45 (permalink)
    With subsurface patterns, subtle features, hints of flash or small areas of bright color, can certainly boost the effectiveness of your fly.  If you belong to the school of imitative tyers then think if it as a way of making your fly stand out a tad: why compete with every other natural for the trout's attention?  If you are a more subjective tyer like myself, then they are fish and they can be "lured" very effectively.  Yes, you can overdo it...but I have had countless days where flash or color added to a fly outproduced the natural version 4:1 or more.

    If the feature you are adding is responsible for making the fly more effective then it is not a waste of time.  If it is just put on "because" then I wholeheartedly agree it's a waste.  But trial and error, and hours on the water should be that judge.

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    Green Weenie
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    RE: Peacock sword or hearl 2008/02/16 15:49:08 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Pgh Kid

    Often the rib serves other purposes also. It can be the the material that holds the fly together such as with peacock. The ribbing material  helps the fly stay together after several hits. Everyone to =day seams to want to go towards more realistic flies such as the wiggle nymph. Here we have someone who actually goes the other way by ommitting the ribbing which is the body segments.

    Wiggle nymphs are not new!  I was showed how to tie them over 30 years ago.  They are only new to some tyers because someone has put it on the "net". And that they are the next best thing to sliced bread.  Like every thing else, things go out of style and then come back in style


    fly fish....save a worms life
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