CAPTAIN HOOK
Absolutely it is the person behind the gun, but that's too late of an excuse once the bullets fly. 

 
Again I ask for the third time; Most hunters vehemently support someones right to own a semiautomatic firearm irregardless of what bad folks do with them, but then some turn around and oppose someones choice to hunt with a semiautomatic firearm because of what bad folks do with them. Why the changing position if you are in that category?
 
 

So why would I want another choice of guns if my gun cabinet is all ready full ?

 
Your choice to make.
 

So shotguns are no safer then rifles ? mmmmm

 
According to the PSU study on their use for deer, correct. Several articles have come out after the PSU study questioning whether shotgun only areas still have merit.
 

Seems Ohio thinks different, almost all of N.Y. thinks different wonder how many more states disagree with that ?

 
Not sure if they think differently? Their shotgun only areas existed prior to the PSU study. Pa has the PSU study but still only allow shotguns in the SRAs. I was just relaying the findings of the study. As with all studies, you have to weigh them along with other information.
 


 

Allegheny co.and Philadelphia area semi shotguns are legal,but parts of 2B where rifles are permitted,semi auto shotguns are not legal. Semi shotguns are legal in Ohio. I've shot does in Allegheny co with my 11-87 Hastings barrel tack driver. If I need to gun hunt in Ohio I use pump gun 20 gauge little light gun. I'm just not sure I'd want to be deer hunting with guys with AR's ripping several rounds through the woods. I've hunted WV with semi being legal but there's definitely a shell restriction. I'd hardy think Pa. would allow use of a 30 round clip. But who knows,I think this is a poor excuse to promote licence sales. I'm all for gun ownership and the second amendment,but AR's deer hunting scare me.

BeenThereDoneThat.
For those having concerns with the use of auto-loading weapons for the purpose of hunting (remember once they have a foot in the door) who have, or wish to voice your objections, do not waste your time with a politician or the PGC.

Your best choice is to make your feelings known to a powerful lobbyist.

https://www.pfb.com

Not sure but it would not surprise me if they supported semi auto for hunting. They generally support anything that may kill a deer or bear as long as it is not on Sundays, lol. 

Any lead whizzing by my head scares me. Did you every have a bullet whizz by,I have not much fun.

dpms

BeenThereDoneThat.
For those having concerns with the use of auto-loading weapons for the purpose of hunting (remember once they have a foot in the door) who have, or wish to voice your objections, do not waste your time with a politician or the PGC.

Your best choice is to make your feelings known to a powerful lobbyist.

https://www.pfb.com

Not sure but it would not surprise me if they supported semi auto for hunting. They generally support anything that may kill a deer or bear as long as it is not on Sundays, lol. 

Actually they support what the land owner wants.

I see you mention the no Sunday hunting thingy.

Than you know how powerful the organization is.

Long story short; "be careful what you wish for".

Hunting Sunday using auto-loading rifles on private land; I'll be eager to see how that works out.

As for agreeing to people owning auto-loading weapons I certainly have no problem. Own a few myself and I enjoy shooting on a regular basis.

For those who have and do enjoy the sport of shooting such weapons, I would highly recommend shooting with a silencer attached.

Now that would be the way to hunt game. Nobody would recognize the shooting and therefore nobody would be concerned with no less than five rounds fired in rapid succession.

As for agreeing to ownership of ARs but not agreeing for the purpose of hunting but it's OK for crazies to have the guns. C'mon man! You gotta do better than that, that is absolutely absurd.

Your question "is it the person or is it the gun" is nothing more than oxymora of which you pose, in support of your opinion.

No matter the opinion, you spin the answer in an attempt to put your opposition, into defense.

I still see no reason for the use of semi-auto loading rifles OR shotguns for shooting at deer. Other than the thrill of split second firing of multiple rounds at a live target.

I also agree, while having possible minimal impact, many of the points brought forth have merit and need be considered for long term consequences.

My personal warning, those million or so acres of state game lands will need other sources of funding, to cover for the losses created by the ever decreasing numbers of hunters, who have become disgruntled over the ever increasing number of posted private land.

Be it from this new law, loss of deer herd, no small game, loss of private hunting land or, a combination thereof, the general hunting population is fed up.

Oh.... the state game land comment; laugh if you must.

But see who laughs last when you have to share that land with hikers, bikers, horse back riders and yes ATVs and snowmobiles.

Keep in mind, who got laws allowing crossbows and automatic weapons approved. Lobbyist work for other mfgs too and noone can argue the PGC ISN'T money hungry.

My only wish; I am around to say I told ya so. lol

Wow ! Jigs ......bad experience no doubt!
 
Small real life story how careless people are with guns.......
 
I just came out of a patch of woods in Crawford County about noon. Truck pulled up across the road from me and three hunters got out. Proceeded to enter a small field in front of a wooded area. Within about a hundred yards in, the one guy pulls his rifle up level and starts shooting randomly into the woods. Firing three shots while the others start yelling and hollering. I'm looking like what the hill is going on ? I got into my vehicle and decided to drive around the area just wondering what's up. Well there they were at the other end of the woods, about 7-8 guys spread out waiting on the deer pushers I'd just seen ! That idiot just fired three high powered shells randomly into a public hunted area!  Unreal !

BeenThereDoneThat. As for agreeing to ownership of ARs but not agreeing for the purpose of hunting but it's OK for crazies to have the guns. C'mon man! You gotta do better than that, that is absolutely absurd.

 
Actually, the conundrum is this and it is a direct contradiction; Most hunters vehemently support someones right to own a semiautomatic firearm irregardless of what bad folks do with them, but then some turn around and oppose someones choice to hunt with a semiautomatic firearm because of what bad folks do with them. Why the changing position if you are in that category?
 

Your question "is it the person or is it the gun" is nothing more than oxymora of which you pose, in support of your opinion. No matter the opinion, you spin the answer in an attempt to put your opposition, into defense.

 
I don't have to spin when I point out the contradiction in positions. I have yet to see someone directly address the contradiction but I have seen lots of spin to try to defend the clear contradiction.

I still see no reason for the use of semi-auto loading rifles OR shotguns for shooting at deer. Other than the thrill of split second firing of multiple rounds at a live target.

 
As I pointed out before, is the litmus test for hunting laws and regs what is "needed"? I pointed out many examples of laws and regs that are not "needed" that you readily accept(I assume so since you never responded to it) and none have been addressed by you.

My personal warning, those million or so acres of state game lands will need other sources of funding, to cover for the losses created by the ever decreasing numbers of hunters, who have become disgruntled over the ever increasing number of posted private land.
Be it from this new law, loss of deer herd, no small game, loss of private hunting land or, a combination thereof, the general hunting population is fed up.
Oh.... the state game land comment; laugh if you must.
But see who laughs last when you have to share that land with hikers, bikers, horse back riders and yes ATVs and snowmobiles.
Keep in mind, who got laws allowing crossbows and automatic weapons approved. Lobbyist work for other mfgs too and noone can argue the PGC ISN'T money hungry.
My only wish; I am around to say I told ya so. lol

You do realize that in states that allow semi rifles for hunting they are far down the list of what hunters choose to carry into the woods. Pa allows semi shotguns and the old pumps are still the ticket for most hunters. There will nto be an army of hunters with "black rifles" assaulting our woods.
 
BTW, no one has suggested or wants "automatic" weapons approved as legal hunting devices.

In regard to semi shotguns in SRA's, I find the comparison rather flimsy.  
 
I'd imagine that most/many are like me, in that their shotguns do double duty.  I've never removed the plug during deer season so that I can hold 3 more slugs in my gun.  We're not talking about guys unloading a 15-30 shot clip full of slugs just because they can.  
 
Even if you could, sabots are what now?  About $2 a slug?  Some $3 or $4 a slug or more.  That was a couple years ago, when I bought my last 5 pack of "cheap" sabots for $11.  I'd imagine most slug gunners are probably going to be a bit more judicious with their shooting.  
 
I've read that study - and different opinions on that study - on slugs vs. centerfire projectiles.  It wasn't a PSU study, but a private contractor that conducted the study, Mountaintop Technologies in Johnstown.  Funded by the state.  The conclusions of "danger" were based on ricochet distances.   Both have significant ricochet risks, with the slug gun about 15% more "risky," than a centerfire bullet.  A centerfire bullet though is going to travel hundreds of yards further through the air - in a defined kill zone - before hitting the ground, than a shotgun slug would.  The ricochet is an uncontrollable factor - the projectile could ricochet in any direction.  
 
I've been on board with just about every additional hunting and weapon opportunity that the PGC has added in the past decade, as well as the expanded opportunities for deer hunting in SRA's, doe hunts for juniors and seniors, the mentored hunting program, etc.  
 
My concerns have nothing to do with the potential impact on the deer population or getting more hunters into the woods.  I've seen enough of the general hunting public on public land hunts to know that I don't want to be in the woods on public land if people are toting semi auto rifles with high capacity magazines.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

DarDys
Fundamentally this discussion comes down to two points -- one side says there will be no issues, discounting the possibility of chuckleheads being chuckleheads and the other fearing things that they can possibly know will happen and even if they do, what the frequency and severity might be.

Actually I have been clear that chuckleheads will be chuckleheads. They already are is my point. I choose to not let chuckleheads drive hunting policy just as I choose to not let chuckleheads drive gun policy. While other choose to not let chuckleheads drive gun policy bur then choose to let chuckleheads drive hunting policy.
 

Dpms you can read into the responses anyway you wish.

Very sly, posing oxymoron's in the fashion of a question allowing you to spin any comment you find negative to your agenda. Your rebuttals (always the same) referring back to the oxymora, are cleverly used in a condecsending fashion looking to belittle the opposition.


My bad, thought there may be a good debate but there is, just no way to reason, with denial.

My final thought; to those who are truly pondering this issue, "be careful what you wish for", perhaps this law will be "the straw that breaks the camel"s back".

So what do "you"... have to loose?

dardys, good overall conclusion above (in response to my previous post) about waiting to see.  
 
i realize that many cried that the sky is falling in response to crossbows, mentored hunting, jr and sr doe hunts, etc and the evidence has proven that those concerns were largely unfounded.  other than the very rare and limited cheating of adults using mentored tags on non-AR legal bucks, i'm not aware of any problems with any of those programs from either a game management or safety perspective.   
 
i'm not vehemently opposed to semis for deer season, but i see greater cause for concern than with other additions to deer hunting over the past decade.  but like you said, i guess we won't know till we have a decade of data to show us whether or not the concern was unfounded.  hopefully that data doesn't include more hunting "accidents" in the form of hunters or the general public with grave or mortal injuries, or property damage.  
 
 
 

rsquared
dardys, good overall conclusion above (in response to my previous post) about waiting to see.  
 
i realize that many cried that the sky is falling in response to crossbows, mentored hunting, jr and sr doe hunts, etc and the evidence has proven that those concerns were largely unfounded.  other than the very rare and limited cheating of adults using mentored tags on non-AR legal bucks, i'm not aware of any problems with any of those programs from either a game management or safety perspective.   
 
i'm not vehemently opposed to semis for deer season, but i see greater cause for concern than with other additions to deer hunting over the past decade.  but like you said, i guess we won't know till we have a decade of data to show us whether or not the concern was unfounded.  hopefully that data doesn't include more hunting "accidents" in the form of hunters or the general public with grave or mortal injuries, or property damage.  
 
 
 

 
 
That is cause little 6 year old who weighs about 50 lbs. and is barely four feet tall is not pulling the trigger on a big ol' buck...daddy is

psu_fish
 
 
That is cause little 6 year old who weighs about 50 lbs. and is barely four feet tall is not pulling the trigger on a big ol' buck...daddy is

 
And the regulations were changed this year to address that concern.  Mentored hunters under age 7 do not get their own buck tag anymore and must use the buck tag of the mentor.  So whether or not daddy or junior pulls the trigger, daddy's buck tag is going on that deer.  
 
 
 
 

I got an email from the PGC that included a reminder that semis were not yet legal for hunting use in PA.

Haha, ok.

What age do you suppose a kid would pull it since you seem to know so much about kids?