It was a year or 2 ago when a guy was fishing the north bank directly across from me in the lfz. I was standing on the preferred hot spot rock on south and he was putting on a clinic on the north while I was catching squat.
While it wasn't obvious , I Was wondering if he was just lining them due to their location . In advertenly I caught his line and pulled it to my side so I could get a look. He reluctantly let it over and once I grabbed the line knew what was up. His small rubber egg was lathered up with Anise
Obviously very effective but totally illegal in the zones as attractants are considered " bait "

dimebrite2
Lucky, I'd say size 14 and 16 caddis more so than stones in the winter months under the rocks

I'm not saying they are not there, but the guy Clint was quoting was talking black stones.  On real low water, I've done great with olive and green caddis for years.  But are the little stones all that present all season long?
 
L13

True that -13. Feb, march there are tiny stones but the caddis scuds rule the river for the most part as far as food source after fall.
Big stones in size # 6 or 8 seem to kick azz on the browns in November though...
I do know for fact that a size #12 ( secret fly , aka jack ) will hammer the chrome all through out.
I got some tying to do soon :)

Now that the topic has come up i find it pretty funny to see the oh so many flies that are referred to as stone patterns throughout the fishery. Most are no where's near an actual stonefly replica. Seems to have become a loose term to say the least. But I will say black, green and brown nymphs or pupa style do very well in the upper end. I think my patterns that I tie up resemble more of a hares ear style nymph with a few different variations of either natural or synthetic targets/accents.

Peacock is absolutely that jack. A great eye catcher for trout.

2B,I can just picture what you said.Last year there was a "stealth" lifter hooking up across from me,when the fish swam close I would see the hook up and I would yell "right in the dorsal",then one would leap and I would yell "in the belly",didn't bother the "angler" 'cause all he wanted was a bend in the rod.
By the way,a King Salmon rarely leaps when hooked in the mouth.

Well I guess I am not in that majority, because my 6# drennon is like 10# and 6 to 12 are my sizes. I will use some 14 and real 4# but usually in winter.  Lining one or a foul hook here or there is inevitable every now and then and it's gong to happen, but when it is the norm there is an issue.  Had a guy last year offer to change my rig and show me how last year. Told me not enough weight, tippet too short (his was 3.5 feet) and letting it drift too far down stream.
 
TB as far as aggressive fish, that was one of the speakers points, the larger fish are not necessarily the most aggressive. They go big and old, by being cautious on where they lie, what they eat and when they move.
 

Clint S
 
TB as far as aggressive fish, that was one of the speakers points, the larger fish are not necessarily the most aggressive. They go big and old, by being cautious on where they lie, what they eat and when they move.
 

Clint in stream trout (especially browns) I believe that to be true.
 
BUT  in the case of steelfish and salmon not so much.
They get big in the lake for 1 of 2 reasons.
They are more aggressive and out compete the rest at the dinner table or they stay an extra year.
 
Being big doesn't mean you are smart.
I am the poster child for this truism.
 

I imagine he was referring to steel that had returned to the lake at least once, and of course, run the gauntlet.  The first winter trip to the SR I was introduced to small, all black, no sparkle, no flash, stones. The guide, who is very popular, said they were his number one producing fly, and others stood by them , also.  I also later got to watch the Yankee Angler at work, who is the absolute King of Chuck and Duck. He's capable of making steelhead look like bluegills in a fishbowl. Seen it and done it. I heard a number of talented lifters in the Church Pool talking about their fly- the "redhead" that's on his site. I quickly deduced this is why the argument on the Trinity in Calif. against tiny flies, where large stones abound in a 100 miles of freestone river bed is just as prevalent as here. There you can use a multiple fly rig which I would use in the winter here in a heartbeat. I fished Capnidae imitations in the dead of late winter for years, in east and west coast rivers  but never caught a large trout on them. Most stoneflies are in 2 year cycles, but the first instars (shedding of the exoskeleton to grow larger or change phases of life) , leave them unavailable to trout. The developing stages of stones don't leave them out cavorting in the current.  One Feb. day on the SR after a morning of cold and Lake effect, the sun popped out and the temp rose close to 40 degrees. There was good amounts of
the winter stones crawling out, but I chose to swing flies under the 52 bridge with great results. I did the same when I saw them on smaller trout streams. They were a marker for activity, not the real hatch themselves. I do know for a fact that guides and people that have spent a lot of time observing steelhead know all about aversion therapy. A small black speck , traveling at the same pace as the current does not trigger a steelhead to move away in a defensive response. If you're going to run light tippet across a fishes mouth or try to place a hook in its body, small so called stones, fit the bill. Not so easily accomplished with other  stones and larger patterns with flash like peacock (my favorite since I was a kid) .  Or a chartreuse caddis pupae, for that matter.  Will steel eat small insects? Yes. but more likely  large  midge pupae  than the  small winter stones crawling along the bottom to exit on the snowbanks. 

I am going to say more foul hooks were evident prior to the reg changes in the zones.
I started fishing the UFZ the day after it first opened publicly.
Remember , back then as long as it was a fly rod and reel, anything else flew. No weight restrictions, leader lengths to weight and if the line was coated it was ok. Running line, 6' tippets to weight and slinkies were the norm.
Some guides mentioned were the kings of the zones for quite awhile passing these methods along to their clients. We used to nick name them.

As to now, its kinda as 2 b says , a different breed and many of them use very long rods , aka red light district , that " sweep " the entire run or pool. The majority of them I would see " sweeping " would hook them on the far side of a fishes body.
The other group who would foul usually had excessive weight well over the 1/8 oz and go to the max and beyond the 4' tippet length , aka dummy ticket.
So I certainly believe the new , current regs have helped and would be effective if people followed them.
You gotta realize, it's a super high concentration area for fish all winter as is say the schoolhouse and believe me, many fish are lined there as well . Try putting a weight restriction there and I'd bet the ratio decrease a bit as well.

Jack, my guess is that all those vehicles and officers were doing in service training.  Silly season is the perfect opportunity to do training because you have officers centrally located.

Too many people for sure. But I agree with the backwards part more so... I recall fishing slinkies on running line in the mid -late 90's as opposed to weight forwards with split shot when it first opened up in 91... We usually used enough weight to get a full drift in whatever areas we targeted. Fish were mostly fair hooked and not 100% lined...From what Ive seen of the lfz lately I'd say its worse now.i dont even see people successfully lining fish...As two Bob confirmed nothing but foul hooks which is most of what I see. And most of all, people who know nothing of fly fishing for the most part.

I always try to find how much weight it takes to find bottom and then take some off.
The next thing I want to feel is the take.
Doesn't always work out that way but that is the goal.
 

I would say the problem in the zone now is that many people go there because that is where the fish are (that is what they are told).
They don't fish fly tackle at home.
A)They have been told or read that you have to get on the bottom to catch these fish so they put on too much weight.
This makes them 
1) hang bottom, getting in the way of people that do know how to fly fish
2)They have been told how light these fish bite and you must set on anything.
3)A+1+2 =dragging bottom and therefore setting the hook all the time
4) then there are the long time well practiced lifters and liners there to get an ego boost from the 1 2 3 guys that don't get that they are POS aszholes cheating good people out of the chance to catch these fish fairly
 
This weekend it was worse because the fish were so hammered by the crowd every second of the day light hours.
Even the most aggressive were just trying to find a place to hide lessening the fairly hooked fish number.
 

Two bob, would you even call it lining? I'm not seeing any mouth hooks. And I'm also referring to times I've fished it for steelhead within the past 3 years. Its been over two years since I've fished there. Last time may have been with clint some 2.5 years ago. But I've done a lot of observing. Maybe I had my science down perfect or maybe I had a lot of biting fish in the old time C and D days as my hook was and usually is now in the mouth.