Hush sunday hunting lawsuit

Read the article.  The reg about Sunday hunting being allowed on non-commercial private land, what does that entail?  Can I hunt deer on my own property during the regular seasons on Sundays?

Well, they wanted their day in court and they got it. When turkeys are down statewide over 30%, deer are down over 30%, and all other classes of game except bear are at historical lows it made no sense to add another day of hunting to further decimate the states wildlife.
 
You increase hunter satisfaction and retention by taking steps to allow the hunters to see more game and have more action during the time they have to hunt. What they and the PGC were trying to do was going to have the hunters spending more time in a fruitless pursuit of game that wasn't there and further decimate a already diminished  population. That leads to hunter dissatisfaction and hunters quitting the sport.
 
In my opinion the lawsuit was started by folks who were on record favoring further reducing the deer herd and who misled some others into helping finance their goal. It finally went down the toilet as it should have.

Another lawsuit will have no shot.   But if they want to throw away more money, go for it.   It now has a legal case against it, plus everything that lead to this decision in the first place.   There is no rights being infringed, and frankly, if you read the case file, it looks like someone with no legal experience threw a bunch of crap at the wall just to see if any of it would stick.   There was nothing of any substance whatsoever.    Not because they couldn't find anything.   They couldn't find anything because nothing to support their contention exists.
 
This is a purely social issue.    And as I see it, that "Case" has already been decided also by legislators listening to constituents.
 
Whether one is for or against sunday hunting though, this case being lost is a very good thing.  
 
The agenda in play wasn't a good one, nor was the  intended self promotion of certain individuals.   
 
As for a bill arising, I would be surprised if one didn't just out of knee-jerk reaction and emotion to this verdict, by one of the SH proponent legislators.    No reason to believe it will get any more support than previously though.    Perhaps even less with the findings of this legal case backing the position of the opposition.
 
The issue is done.   Stick a fork in it.  At least for the near future.  This lawsuit did a lot more to hurt the prosunday efforts than help them.
 
 
 
 

Yep--You now have what we in the Northern tier used to have but statewide the flock is down by a third according to the PGC. In fact they are wrapping up a 4 year study where they trapped and tagged hens trying to determine why.
 
I am sure it has nothing to do with the increase in hawks and owls, increase in coyotes, and introduction of the greatest killer of ground nesting birds and animals in North America(insert sarcasm font). In many WMU's including mine, they have reduced the fall season because of low numbers of birds. I have seen more fishers or their sign in each of the last five years than any other predator.
 
A couple years of cold wet springs hurt them but those predators hunt year round with no limit. At least the anti hunter animal rights groups are happy. They don't care how they die as long as it isn't by a hunters bullet.
 
I used to live in one of the best areas of the state for deer and turkeys, anymore, not so much.

Where are you getting your statistics at? I am just curious. Hopefully not from harvest report cards. Every one who isn't seeing or having successful hunts are too lazy to pursue the game. It takes more than walking 50 yards off the road or sitting in the stand all day. The people that get deer will get them regardless of an extra day

^^^^^^^^^^ Yep, what DT said. We like to hunt crows on Sunday.
 
BH

Nunya biz---- If your asking me I got my info from the PGC website and from watching the biologists testify at the BOC meetings.  Turkeys for example are scarce in some areas and plentiful in others but overall they are down considerably statewide and fall seasons have been reduced in some WMU's to reflect that fact. The fact finding game in your area is easy doesn't make it so in others. Some will be quite successful regardless of low numbers as you say but one shouldn't have to make it a full time job or have their own private ground to hunt just to harvest a critter.

Dr. Trout
I still get a kick out of the Sunday Hunting stuff... FOLKS wake up .. there is no '"LAW"' (???????) against Sunday Hunting..... Just like any other day of the week you are allowed to hunt what ever critter that is IN SEASON  ...  It's just that there are not a lot of critters that are IN SEASON ....  I could have hunted coyotes all day yesterday if I wanted too ....  

Actually there is law prohibiting it. Exceptions have been made via legislation but the original law still stands.

Actually there is law prohibiting it. Exceptions have been made via legislation but the original law still stands.

 
The law is, we can hunt sundays, with restrictions.   Not convenient for somes agendas when it comes to lawsuits and "constitutionality" though I guess. (snicker, snicker).  Hilarious to hear we aren't allowed to hunt sundays, even though I and others do so on a regular basis legally.     I guess the judge may have taken notice also.   Unfortunate how some lawyers tend not to notice such obvious and glaring problems with lawsuits before checks are cut though eh?
 

Hunting pressures affects on turkey populations are questionable at best.

 
The fact some units have had the fall season when hens are legal shortened does nothing to support your statement.
 

 Deer numbers are easily controlled by allocations.

 
And many don't believe they are adjusted as should be the case.   If one feels that way, then there should be no reason to support worsening the situation.    
 

 Bear numbers have been increasing despite additional pressure so SH would in non way affect them.

 
They can very easily increase opportunities over the very short bear season without adding sundays to the equation.
 
 

Nope. The law is written Sunday hunting is illegal with exceptions.

 
You can pick nits all you like to make your non-point.   We still hunt sundays.   I don't think you would feel one bit better about it if it were worded sunday hunting is legal for everything except DEER, turkey, gamebirds and small game, exceptions being coyotes crow etc.   The judge also found no problem with it and that was the first thing any judge would've looked at.    A very simple law.   Nothing complex about it.   Unless you think you know law as it pertains to that exact issue better than a  judge, I think we're done here.  Feel free to argue your expert opinion with judge Kane or any other.   Perhaps you'll show them the error of their ways.  
 

I also feel allocations have been questionable for some time. I can separate out what I feel is questionable deer management and the issue of SH which is so much more than about deer hunting.

 
Deer hunting is number one in Pa, and for that matter most other states as well, like it or not.  For many, it is pretty much everything.
 

 understand is is difficult for you to look beyond deer, deer hunting, any new weapon that might kill another deer, what day of the week a deer is killed on, a new technique that might kill another deer, what kid is killing a deer, what mentored youth is killing a deer etc....

 
And I understand its difficult for you and your posse of liberal change everything types to grasp that these things you constantly propose over and over also often have negatives, not just positives.    
 
I also have no problem with any kid killing a deer.   Although Im sure it was part of "the plan" just like everything else proposed by the self chosen few "activists" (lol) 
 
Although I do have reservations on age limits, which have nothing to do with my concerns on size of deer herd diminishing further, and everything to do with what simply right, and common sense.   You know this.  Ive said this many times.    Guess it doesnt fit in with your emotion over the lost lawsuit or my thoughts on the topic.
 

It is amazing that hunting has remained strong as have game populations across this country where the majority of states allow game agencies to regulate hunting on a full time basis. How can that be, Wayne?

 
How can that be?  Well for one, thats simply your opinion.   Two, every state is individual.  There are others that have high level of hunter dissent when it comes to deer management policies, especially in recent years where environmentally friendly policy has been implemented similar to pa.    I hear plenty werent very happy in Wi in the very recent past.  And for many of the same reasons as Pa.   How can that be?   Also, I also happen to know our private lands aren't nearly as off limits and posted up as compared to most other states Ive hunted.   We can all draw our own conclusions about why that is.
 
Legislators and people should have a say in matters to some degree.  And Im not interested in the full time no holds barred pgc dictatorship that you and a few others support.
 

How can Sunday hunting in the majority of this country be accepted and welcomed yet some like yourself continue to beat the death to hunting drum when it comes to Pa?"

 
That's a bit melodramatic.    And you know that's not, nor has ever been my position.  But please, feel free to make it up as you go along.     
 
Your friends lost the lawsuit.  It had no chance, anyone with half a brain knew what would happen.  Yet they forged on.   Not only did they lose, but they hurt the chances of legislators doing it now also, even moreso than before.   Their constituents largely don't want it.    And now a federal lawsuit has shut up the few vocal legal expert wannabes up, so that argument is pretty much extinct.
 
For the foreseeable future, sunday hunting has left the building!    No reason to even discuss it until it becomes a pertinent realistic issue again.   How about we revisit this in 2018 or so?   .  
 

The NNSF's reaction to the above. 
 
Reaction to the ruling
The National Shooting Sports Foundation, which was not a party to the suit, weighed in on the case.

“While we do not agree with the court’s decision based on the Heller decision, the ruling will only serve to strengthen the resolve of NSSF and the fellow members of the Sunday Hunting Coalition to reform antiquated blue laws and to give the professional game managers in Pennsylvania the discretion to permit hunting on Sunday as part of their scientific wildlife management plan,” said Larry Keane, NSSF senior vice president and general counsel to Guns.com Monday.
 

I also heard today that some legislators are not too happy that the suit failed. And not for the reasons some might assume. If another bill is floated, there will most likely be some serious pressures from many different angles pulling on our elected officials. The concern is they might have to go on record and cast a vote. The concern is from those on both sides of the issue, interestingly enough.
 
Personally, I am not surprised the suit failed. I just hope I see SH legalized in this state before I pass. With time, as our demographics change, we will be struggling as hunters to defend our sport.  It is during times like these that shortsighted individuals will make our hurdles much higher in the future. 
 
 

wayne c
Unfortunately national groups aren't usually intimately familiar with each state and their situation or the desires of we, the peons living in them.  They simply push their own agenda and blanket positions and leave it at that.  That's their operating procedure, narrow sighted and focused.  

 
Certainly some truth to that. But, I would be confident in saying that a large majority of gun owners welcome the influence of the NRA and other pro gun orgs during elections and gun legislation debates on statewide levels. The same should be said for national sporting and/or shooting orgs and their involvement in state hunting related issues.  
 
Some choose to welcome their influence on one hand then shun them on the other based on their personal position on the issue at hand. We can't have it both ways. 
 
I welcome them and their influence no matter my position, as in the end, I think our sport is better off as a whole. Both on a statewide and national level. 

wayne c
  Same thing here. Sunday hunting expansion in Pa is a PENNSYLVANIA social issue to be dealt with by we, Pennsylvanians.  Has nothing to do with national orgs.     If they are overzealous, that's a fault of theirs and not one I feel any need to support, regardless of how much I may support them on other issues and regardless of whether they are "good" groups or not.   

Bull.

If our bear season was under attack in Pennsylvania like it is in other states, most hunters would welcome national orgs. If trapping was under attack, same thing. Huge fight in Maine right now to preserve bear hunting. Guess what, hunters are welcoming the help from the national orgs. Guess what, those that want to end bear hunting in Maine believe it is a social issue.

When anti gun legislation comes from Harrisburg, most hunters and gun owners welcome outside help, even though it is a Pennsylvania issue. We saw it take center stage recently. Hunters and gun owners standing hand in hand with the national orgs.

If you feel the national orgs should stay out of any Pennsylvania issue regarding hunting and/or gun rights, at least you are consistent in your misguided beliefs. I suspect that not to be the case.

What we have with the SH issue is now some hunters saying the national orgs should stay out, yet, these same folks welcome them or would welcome on other issues them when they think no one is watching or no one cares. Or maybe, the hypocrisy has never been realized by them or pointed out to them.

S-10
1. If adding days to hunting ( especially days when the greatest numbers of hunters would be afield) does nothing to reduce game populations then there is no reason to have seasons. For a hundred years the PGC has realized that it had a great effect and set seasons accordingly.

What I said was adding limited days to hunting seasons does not affect most specie populations. In some instances, we do not need any seasons. Most small game seasons could go by the wayside if we base the need on management. Seasons provide opportunities for hunters to enjoy our sport. No doubt big game requires stricter seasons and limits and they can be managed via allocations and limits, no matter how many days of the week hunting is legal.

 3. When you admit the PGC's actions on deer hunting are questionable at best why would you want them to have an additional opportunity to screw things up and further deplete the game population. Also, remember, deer hunting is the engine that drives all other aspects of Pa hunting.

We are in but a blip of time in the grand scheme of things. You talk to many deer hunters today, and they yearn for deer hunting as it was 20 years ago. It seems the current board is moving away from the where the biologists want to go at this point in time. Point is change will happen. We will see ebbs and flows to hunting in Pennsylvania with all species.

I agree deer hunting drives most things hunting in this state and that is why I wish for some change in our current direction. With that said, the best direction for hunters over the long haul is less political management of wildlife resources and hunters having the ability to enjoy our sport on the days that they have available to do so. Times have changed. The work week is no longer mon-fri. It is way past time for PA to take a step out of the stone ages and allow hunters to hunt when they can within established seasons.

if the PGC would ever add deer to the Sunday Hunting list can you image the out cry after a year or two.....
 
There are still thousands complaining about the herd reduction move ... adding a day that 95% of hunters could take to the woods to kill deer would be every bit as effective as any herd reduction was... probably a lot better at reducing populations ... why do you thing coyotes are on the list now.. to reduce the numbers...
 
sure they could then ==
 
cut back the length of the seasons  .. oh wait that would actually be LESS time to hunt ...
lower allocations ---  they are doing that now.....
with less bucks around they may have to go to a lottery system to get a buck tag too ....
 
putting deer on the list would  upset twice as many Pa hunters as we have now.. even worse it would add a bunch of current supporters of the PGC to the "haters"  .... and THEY KNOW IT !!!!!!!
 
 
why do you think they did not  try to add deer to the list back in 2000 to reduce deer populations instead of the "herd reduction move"  ??????
 
adding deer hunters to the list of farmers, rural property owners, and others not wanting any change to the Sunday hunting policy would be just CRAZY .....