First trip advice

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lag1365
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2014/04/25 15:51:45 (permalink)

First trip advice

Hey guys, I am planning to make my first trip up to the Salmon rive with a group of 4 guys to try our luck a catching a salmon.  I have been doing a lot of research and we will be going up the first weekend in September (only weekend we can all make it), we all are getting the salmon steel head rods from ugly stick with sadona reels.  We can not afford a guide so we are going to figure it out on our own, were all in 25 so we have a problem walking to find areas not to crowed.  My question is what motel should we stay in?  I would like to book it soon so we know we have a place to stay, I know some one who stayed at Double Eagle and he said he like it but he didn't fish so I don't know if that's a good area?  Also if there are any tips on what equipment, or fishing techniques to use I would appreciate it.   
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    r3g3
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/04/25 17:52:45 (permalink)
    Good luck-it wont be your last trip !!! The place is addictive.
     Get a hotel quick- some may already be filled up. Steel wont be much of an issue at that time but the Kings and perhaps some Hos should be started.
    Go on the putor for Pulaski hotels- its a small town and most are very close to the river.
     Ugly Stick is a great choice- specially for first timers- most of us likely started with one. A reel with a reliable drag is a must- they fight like heck.
     Most along the river are more than willing to give a short lesson on methods.
    Some will likely cringe but for a first timer it might be nice to go to DSR ($$$) on one day-if you get an early run your life will never be the same lol.
     Reserve early there too as they tend to sell out. If you go there check on their special regs for setup.
    post edited by r3g3 - 2014/04/25 17:55:45
    #2
    Clint S
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/04/25 18:01:41 (permalink)
    Although that is usually the first weekend they bump the flows the first week in September will be iffy at best , but as we know it is dependent on  a variety of things especially the weather.  I would fish down low in town and keep an eye on the weather if it  is hot and dry it very well could be a trip in vain.   There are always a few stragglers here and there,  but I would not expect any fish in #'s that weekend.   May be a good idea to rent a house on the DSR and go there

    The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.  ~Babylonian Proverb

    #3
    pafisher
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/04/25 18:40:51 (permalink)
    That early will be hit or miss as others has said.But if it were me I would bite the bullet and fish the DSR,there you will be able to fish for the early run.Contact them and see if you can rent one of their houses and maybe they will give you a break on the price but call now....don't wait!
    #4
    lag1365
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/04/26 10:52:48 (permalink)
    Thanks for the info guys, is the DSR catch and release only?  That might be a deal breaker for the guys I'm fishing with so it looks like I should drop the trip back a few weekends?  
    #5
    chartist
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/04/27 18:03:46 (permalink)
    I highly recommend NOT going up that first weekend in September, it's likely going to be too hot.   But, if you have to, I saw salmon all the way up to Altmar last Labor Day weekend....Most of the fish died due to water that was too warm...the DSR was polluted with dead fish and stunk to high heaven...Maybe you'll catch a break and it will be cool.....Monitor the DSR website and don't spend that $50 unless the conditions are favorable.
    #6
    3fan
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/04/27 19:32:24 (permalink)
    Here are a few pics of first week September fish from last year, I swing flys for them early yes the days can be hot but the truth is they will run when they want. I live close enough that if I don't find fish its no big deal, a lake charter will only cost you 100$ a guy something else to think about. Enjoy your first trip.




    by the way chartist those fish were all caught up top with no 1/0 hook!
    #7
    fischnmachine
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/04/28 11:15:01 (permalink)
    I saw the question on C&R, I'm not sure if the DSR is C&R but if I had to guess I would think YES.  Like most said don't expect to fish mid-river up.  Also in terms of keeping them, keep in mind these are not the salmon you are getting in stores.  I've kept some in the past and they are not what you expect.  In fact never did it aghain.....  There food source is somewhat different than what they eat in Alaska hence all the smoke houses.  The only saving grace is they will be fresh versus being in the watershed for a long time.  I've even grilled a fresh coho and it just wasn't for me. 
     
    I will note, I'm more of a white fish guy Eyes, Stripers, Flounder, Mahi, etc...
    #8
    fischnmachine
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/04/28 11:20:37 (permalink)
    One other thing, I'm a shimano guy and have a Sedona for stockies in Pa.  Not sure how that reel will hold up on a King/Coho.  I might be inclined not to go any lower than Sahara maybe even a Symetre but that's just me.  You could always give Ebay a look, especially if you aren't sure if this will become an annual gig.  Obviously you don't want to spend a ton but you also don't want to have to go buy another reel while you are up there :)
     
    Pfleuger also makes some good reels and of course you can't go wrong with a Penn in terms of drag systems (used them all the time for Blues off of North Jersey).
    #9
    Clint S
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/04/28 11:24:00 (permalink)
    You can keep Salmon in the DSR, but you cannot keep trout.  The fresher they   the "better"   they taste,but they still are nothing close to the store bought stuff.   OK at best if marinaded for a day and drowned in cocktail sauce or something.   Very strong "fishy" taste

    The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.  ~Babylonian Proverb

    #10
    fischnmachine
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/04/28 13:06:36 (permalink)
    See that.....  I've never fished the DSR, I really need to get down there.  Also from my understanding they can be a bit more eager to hit down there.  I won't create the age old debate of why they hit, etc...  Keep one thing in mind lag....  It isn't easy to get one on certain days and don't necessarily follow the opinion of the masses up there.  You don't need to snag/line to actually get one on and the less time they are in the SR probably the better chance you have of enticing one to bite.  You can get them on legally and correctly further up as well, but by then the fish have been harassed pretty good.  Some may also argue that getting a guide for salmon on the SR isn't as valuable then for chrome.  I know I didn't learn anything and will not go into why.  Be patient when you are up there and I'm sure some others can give you some good advice like for me, I rarely fish slow water for Salmon well and even trout I suppose.  Where you can see them, I have always felt they can see you.  It also gets to be pretty frustrating as you know you just drifted past that fish and he/she just gave you the middle finger.
    #11
    lag1365
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/04/28 14:14:15 (permalink)
    Thanks for all the great information guys!  Hope I'll be able to show a few pictures in a few months.
    #12
    chartist
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/04/29 18:38:35 (permalink)
    Everyone wants to say I caught a 30lb king on a size 12 fly on 4lb test.  We're not likely going for a fishing record so just have fun.  I fish legally and 1/0 hooks are legal.  The octopus hooks have tips turned inward so it reduces foul hooking.....
    #13
    ChromeBandit412
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/04/29 19:28:30 (permalink)
    this is very interesting to me. what if i rigged some good 8lb seaguer onto my pfleuger noodle rod combo? can a first timer come up and just wing it? maybe find a cheap campground or sleep in a parking lot somewhere? are the crowds really that bad?
    #14
    Clint S
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/04/29 20:26:10 (permalink)
    ChromeBandit412
    this is very interesting to me. what if i rigged some good 8lb seaguer onto my pfleuger noodle rod combo? can a first timer come up and just wing it? maybe find a cheap campground or sleep in a parking lot somewhere? are the crowds really that bad?

    Sure you can.   On my  noodle I run 10 lb test and a 15lb test leader.   Plenty of cheap  camp grounds around.   Are the crowds that bad????????    WELLLLLLLLL.   There is an old joke my dad told me.   What is 12 miles long and has a @$$  hole   every 2 feet?       I think you know the answer

    The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.  ~Babylonian Proverb

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    troutbum21
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/04/29 20:47:22 (permalink)
    To all those making or considering a trip to the world famous Salmon River you just can't understand it until you see it for yourself.  I will say that once you experience the madness you will be hooked for life.  Enjoy it.
     
    #16
    twobob
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/04/29 20:59:17 (permalink)
    Show of hands here by the seasoned vets.
    How many think its sporting or ethical to fish kings on #4 test?
    How many think that a size 12 or a size 1/0 is your go to size.
     
    My guess is not many legit fishermen here will say yes to either of those things.
     
    Snaggers on the other hand just might.
    Clint S
       There is an old joke my dad told me.   What is 12 miles long and has a clarist   every 2 feet?       I think you know the answer




     
    Fixed that for you clint.
    You're welcome.
     
    #17
    ChromeBandit412
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/04/29 21:06:44 (permalink)
    Lol thanks for the info guys. I'm gonna do my research and give it a shot this fall.
    #18
    r3g3
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/04/29 21:36:22 (permalink)
    For steel like 6 or 8 lb test on the noodle and bout the same for leader on the fly rig in winter- use a 5 wt in winter on the fly rig.
         For early Steel like to up the leader a bit cause Hos and late Kings are still around and the Steel seem likely to be harder fighting before winter sets in- stick with a 9wt  fly rod or 8 wt switch then as well as the noodle with 8 or 10 on the spool.
        Kings -for me- require bout a 14 lb line on the rare day I use a spin rig in  average to high water conditions. Started with 10 wt fly rods using 12 to 14 leader and now am down to the 8wt  switch or 9 wt fly rods with about 10 to  12 lb leaders -depending on water  conditions- low waters can sometimes find me with even 8 lb Drennan leader on the fly.
     We are mostly all a bit different with these things but don't think there are many 25 to 40 pound, #1 hook,  6 ft salt water bunker snagging rod guys here- lol.
     Would strongly suggest that a beginner use the 14 for most everything- these  fishes fighting capability will come as a surprise  and adjusting to it takes time. Likely why many  started with  a 10 wt ugly Stick and  progressed to other styles later. Hooking and loosing all your fish  can make a lousy first trip. Also can  kill everything ya hook playing them  too long trying to make up for being under geared for  SR fishes- they aint your garden variety.
      Just as important as everything else will be a reel with a great drag-  stuff they will sell you ( even on many heavier fly reels) will burn right out and a strong smooth drag is a MUST here. Ya certainly wont need Salt water spin reels but a great drag and lots of line capability. Wouldn't think of having much less than a hundred yards of backing on the fly reel. When a bigun turns in the rapids and heads for the lake youll need it.
    post edited by r3g3 - 2014/04/29 21:49:19
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    ChromeBandit412
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/04/29 21:51:01 (permalink)
    14 Lb line huh? I love hard fighting fish. I have become such a better fisherman fishing Erie for steel these past few years. I only can imagine the skill and experience i could pick up fishing the big leauges. Salmon River.
    #20
    r3g3
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/04/29 22:01:27 (permalink)
    14 is a personal choice- many here will go lighter.
    Perhaps if some of my rods were longer I could go lighter. Have often used 10 on the 11 1/2 ft switch 8 wt. however the shorter 9 wts just seem to need a bit heavier leaders to work a 25 lb King in the rapids. .
     As I have yet to buy a longer spin outfit- rarely use it -the 14 works out just fine with limited break offs.
    #21
    hot tuna
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/04/30 01:13:31 (permalink)
    First off, lag welcome to the forum and good questions..
    most of the pros and a 1/0 have responded well..
    I can say my hand won't be raised to a whippin' rod rigged with light line for the purpose of a long sweep, got one, nor a tuna (hmm) rod with a 1/0 hook (currently using a 6/0 hooked to a live herring..lol) .. Those methods are deadly in the wrong hands.. Mediocre at best in the right ones..
    3 fan showed you some good early sept pics of great fish.. I'm sure he worked for them and was rewarded by strikes..
    For many years I fished late august early sept.. Some were GREAT some were failures.. It's all the luck of the draw my friend, when ever you get the chance you just gotta go for it.. Being willing to cover lots of water will up your odds.. Walk high and low, I look for fish at that time.. Sight fishing 101..
    If fish are around then the word will be out for sure somewhere on the internet..
    From a blind mans point of view, again it's a walking game.. Check the estuary.. If you see fish rolling then you know some are in dsr and quite possibly upriver..  I like the dsr as some of the best salmon water but I don't like the high price to play.. Been there for years, it's one of my favorite waters on the river but you will need to make your choice, there is a lot of river to fish..
     
    As for Gear:
    your rod, reel is adequate.. While the U sticks have strength they lack sensitivity .. They catch fish, just keep focus on your drifts..
    Line- 12lb casts better then 14 to me.. You can even get away with 10 but thats usually my lowest leader strength.. Now it may seem strange I threw those numbers out but like clint said, use a heaver leader(14-17) ..They are usually that early not line shy, I use a lighter line for better cast and drift,(not 4,6 or 8 you gotta be able to have some, be it little control of a fresh king or hoho..
    Baits, flies, weights ?? It's all up to how you feel comfortable..Fish will strike a jenson (ah jack ? ) egg and they will strike a nicely swung fly.. I do the fly thing with a swing across and down in front of the fish, again I try to sight that early.. Lower in the river Size 4 streamers, buggers and bunnys have all worked well for me.. Higher in the river 6-8 buggers, leeches and eggs have been better taught.. Not to say the big stuff wont rock up there.. It's all up to the presentation and the fish..
    Fish good water, broken is best..
    Lodging: I think you asked ? It's all good to me.. I love camping but also stay at reasonable priced lodges.. Frequented most all of them (well not Jailwater) .. the double-E is a good lodge
    Have fun and wish ya the best of luck
    Peace & Tuna
    post edited by hot tuna - 2014/04/30 01:33:46

    "whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
    #22
    chartist
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/04/30 16:24:34 (permalink)
    I use a 20lb leader with 16lb tippet....Now that's way too much, but I've had my spot grabbed by some large size @$$ hole while walking the stream trying to land a fish.....Now I can just stand there cuz no fish is breaking 20lb leaders on the SR.
    #23
    hot tuna
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/04/30 20:51:28 (permalink)
    chartist
    I use a 20lb leader with 16lb tippet....Now that's way too much, but I've had my spot grabbed by some large size @$$ hole while walking the stream trying to land a fish.....Now I can just stand there cuz no fish is breaking 20lb leaders on the SR.

    Guess you never heard the 22 sounding cracks of 40# line pre 1995..
    Can't wait to hear about the new rod you buy next year.. Love those guys who stand their ground

    "whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
    #24
    twobob
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/05/01 01:03:54 (permalink)
    Anyone else seen one of those white solid glass boat rods explode?
    Good times!
    Well not so much for the guy snagging claristing salmon with it, but for the fishermen it was hysterical.
     
    #25
    r3g3
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/05/01 07:03:55 (permalink)
    Beginning to think someone here has a great dry humor-next one may suspect he will be talking bout the joys of fishing off the bridge at the Estuary-or weather or not the 1/0 hooks should be bait holders or bare shank-- lol. ( have found that the bait holders hold black sponge much better)
    post edited by r3g3 - 2014/05/01 07:57:55
    #26
    pafisher
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/05/01 12:20:36 (permalink)
    r3g3
    Beginning to think someone here has a great dry humor-next one may suspect he will be talking bout the joys of fishing off the bridge at the Estuary-or weather or not the 1/0 hooks should be bait holders or bare shank-- lol. ( have found that the bait holders hold black sponge much better)




    Black estez is the ticket,the black sponge is out of style,the Salmon just seek that out when in the river as it sparkles.
     
    #27
    3fan
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/05/01 18:29:27 (permalink)
    chartist
    I use a 20lb leader with 16lb tippet....Now that's way too much, but I've had my spot grabbed by some large size @$$ hole while walking the stream trying to land a fish.....Now I can just stand there cuz no fish is breaking 20lb leaders on the SR.


    Why worry about a spot, you can be a snagger anywhere!
    #28
    twobob
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/05/01 18:36:23 (permalink)
    3fan
    chartist
    I use a 20lb leader with 16lb tippet....Now that's way too much, but I've had my spot grabbed by some large size @$$ hole while walking the stream trying to land a fish.....Now I can just stand there cuz no fish is breaking 20lb leaders on the SR.


    Why worry about a spot, you can be a clarist  anywhere!




    Twobob's quote fixing service always at the ready.
    #29
    dimebrite2
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    Re: First trip advice 2014/05/02 12:40:43 (permalink)
    Its all time and place and every year is different. This past season had rumors of kings in July... first river fish publicized being caught were Aug. 6th I believe??? I grabbed my first one last season August 8th and consistently caught fish in to early september til i called it quits in early September(as I usually do) the year before nothing showed up really until late day labor day. Some years nothing til end of September... chartist, all of those dead fish were mainly from the whipping section between the town bridge and 81 bridge. Any fish that got above 81 stayed healthy and alive despite the warm up we had on labor day weekend... 3fan is living proof of that ;)

    First timer , keep reading the forums and play it by ear... if fish are running down low be prepared to fish nothing lighter than 10 pound... preferably 12-15 if water temps are cool... I had kings snapping 15 pound like nothing last august and honestly I usually use 10 or 12 and no I don't use a surf rod or 1/0 hooks... #9 11' fly rod... honestly, a noodle rod will work but it is not ideal for hot lower river fish...

    If fish are pooled up in the upper stretches, be ready to use 6 or 8 pound... choose riffly shaded spots if possible and you'll have a better shot at resting "transitional" fish.. I hate fishing pooled up salmon... a waste of time in my opinion...look to have your bait or fly in perfect drag free presentation in your half way mark/three quarter way of drift...

    If I could post pics you'd see that salmon can be caught with little to no pressure early on...

    3Fan: what was your salmon to people ration last year on that day??? 1:1000??? :)

    I oughtta delete this post in a day or two so there's not hundreds of people fishing mid river in the early season for 3 fans sake... lol

    Tight Lines guys!!!
    #30
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