Posting my property.

  I have not made a final decision however I am going to do something . In a way I am very fortunate and own quite a few properties ( woodland timber stands ). I have kept all but one open to hunters and fishermen-woman. However I have certain conditions - restrictions. All of which have been broken over and over even by people that I have talked to face to face and explained my concerns. I explained to one fella how I do not want anyone using climbers that cut into trees and want no one using Black Cherry trees. We catch him up a Cherry tree with a climber with teeth, I am a forester and invested in timberland. I do not want my trees damaged. Next time I meet him he tells me how much he misses hunting my property. Sorry Charlie. Two more rules no permanent stands and no driving deer with organized drives.
        Some examples of what I have put up with: 
                           Hunter standing in the middle of my road on my property blocking me from driving through and telling me that I have no right.
                           Five or six four wheelers ( 50 year olds ) telling me I have no right kicking them off the property and they could ride on all gas lines power lines and my driveway and woods roads because the game commission told them they could. I tried to tell them that they had to stay off while I had a timber job going on for safety sake.
                           Over and over problems with tree climbers with teeth. Them even arguing that the game commission told them they were fine.
                           I have had many things stolen.
                           Litter.
                           I have had two hunters tell me on two different properties that they owned the property we were standing on when in fact they were standing on my property.
                           One fella cut a shooting lane down through my hillside of small hemlocks 10-15 ft high.
                            Now I have a property that I like to hunt that almost every time I go there this year I catch gangs driving deer or I see signs of it having happened.
                            Etc. Etc. Etc. over the years.
                             There is the other side with hunters who do listen and do not cause me grief. I even receive a Christmas card from one every year. Also the many who seem genuinely grateful. I have always wanted to be just one of the hunters able to hunt the property. However when I go to my stand and a whole gang comes driving deer through it kind of ruins it for me. They have the deer so wound up they don't move on their own as much and it is hard to walk them up.
                            I remember when I was a young man and I could hunt three out of four properties and so could everyone else. It was wonderful and I truly enjoyed it. I could hunt for miles out my back door. Now its the era of me me me stay off my ground. Kids will never have the chance to experience what I grew up with. Part of the problem is hunters with no ethics upsetting landowners enough that they post. Plus the me me me all for me.
                             Either way the few properties that are left unposted are being overrun with hunters. Maybe that is why I am dealing with so many hunters that can not abide by the few rules. Maybe that is why they are hunting my places they are not welcome on others.
                              If you cant go by the few rules stay out. I am tired of saying that, I think it is time to POST.
                              Thought I would vent here to see what you all thought of my present dilemma. I was happy sharing the hunting as I do on some Gamelands I hunt. 
            

BloodyHand
I say POST it.
 
BH
 
Just because you post it doesnt mean you cant give permission to a select few hunters to hunt it. Give them a permission slip and have them police your property.

Agree with BH... you can post it and give written permission to those who you select.  No reason to tolerate the BS on your own property.

Tree,
You hit the nail on the head with the me, me, me attitude and all around general lack of respect that men show toward each other.
I will say this as a non land owning hunter. "THANK YOU" for leaving it open as long as you have for those of us who don't own property.
I hunt a few private lands that are open to anyone with one being owned by a relative and he is having the same issues as you. Most of this has been in the last 3-5 years and like you it seems to be middle age hunters that should know better.
So I say POST it if you think it will help.Although I doubt it will eliminate all your issues as bungholes will always be bungholes and if you need any help hanging the signs I'm only 10 miles to the west of you.
Mike

Wouldn't blame you one bit sparrow.
 
Was just fishing the Erie tribs this weekend - on a PFBC easement - with plenty of houses in plain sight.  Had my 10 year old son and a couple of 17 year old boys who are family friends with me.  They got a little ahead of me on our way to one spot and were cutting up a little bit - nothing bad, just being noisy and acting like kids.  Asked them if they'd like someone walking through their back yard doing the same.  Was a good opportunity to teach them about respecting landowners who put up with hundreds or thousands of fishermen a year walking their property. 
 
Unfortunately, when it comes to deer hunting, I see the kind of behavior you describe far too often.  I've hunted privately owned property for deer almost exclusively my entire life.  Lots of similar stories.  Good for you for trying to make it work for the ones who respect it, and trying to figure out how to keep it open.  If I were in your shoes, I'd have probably shut it down long ago. 

I completely agree with what the others have stated.  First off, thank you for being so patient for so long.  I do believe however that it is time to post your property and set some rules.  Personally, in your situation (not that I know much about it other than what you wrote) I would probably give a few written permission slips out and give those individuals your expectations.  I would also give them your cell phone, so that they could help you patrol your property and make sure that everything remains the way it should.  Who knows, you might end up better than your current situation and even make some lifelong friends.  I have been on both sides of the fence, as both a landowner and as someone who will work very hard to obtain permission. Some of the people I have met in each role have become exactly that, lifelong friends.  Good Luck

post it up. give out permision slips and the people that you give the slips to should take care and maintain the property. like a free lease. u will still have guys treaspass. make an example of a couple and that may help some. it sucks to have to get people in trouble, but when stuff is getting stolen u have to do something.

posting will NOT solve much of your property problems. Many large landowners I know around here have or have had the same problems. posting did little to help.
 
the folks doing the trespassing, littering, atv driving, etc know that for the most part, it is much more of hassle for the landowner to enforce his no trespassing rules ... "I did not know" will 99% of the time get the offender off with no punishment... add to that =====
 
1... the the police do not want to respond to the complaint in the first place
2... it is almost IMPOSSIBLE for the landowner to "keep" the offender there while WAITING for the police to show up... unlawful restraint, kidnapping,  is just a word or movement away for a law suit and charges against the landowner..
3.. threats made while waiting for the police often scare the landowner from pressing charges after the police show up .. thus adding to the police not wanting to respond in the first place.
4.. it is easy to type on a computer how one would be a "tough guy" and arrest and punish trespassers... but in reality, based on MANY MANY stories from local landowners... reality sets in when the event actually happens.
 
 
I have talked to several local  landowners that ended up IN REAL LEGAL trouble just trying to enforce trespassing on their property...  the #1 thing was trying to get the person trespassing to "stay here" until the police come..
 
 
 
one actual pointed a gun and he was the one arrested..... the trespassers just simply turned on his cell phone cameras and captured the confrontation ...  the land owner told me the two guys were laughing their asses off as he was arrested and lead off..... 2 weeks later there was a fire near the area of the confrontation and some prize Xmas trees were lost......
 
Another told me, and again this is hear-say, that now in this area that that no trespassing sign HAS TO have printed on it that "legal action" will be taken if caught..  we found and ordered her some and they were very EXPENSIVE !!!!!
 
I feel the pain of many land owner... how's this one.... a guy came in Friday and bought EVERY SINGLE AA battery we had in stock... he uses 36 trail cameras on his 600 acres of posted land to get photos so it would help in the " I did not know it was posted" claim.. they had been there before !!!
He wins some cases and losses some cases.. stated most are lost.... but is VERY happy he has no building, sheds, etc , etc on the posted grounds and lives miles away from the posted land...  threats are an everyday thing when confronting trespasser....  what bummer .... and they spend countless hours taking turns patrolling the land during HUNTING   SEASON.....  I'd rather be hunting...LOL
 
just some more food for thought on the subject...

I'm not buying, little can be done about trespassers. Also not buying that posted signs will not help. Like stated before by several people here. Post the property, give permission slips to the few local cabin owners, and maybe a couple extra slips for there buddies. Give permission slips to the few hunters that will respect your property and than have them POLICE Your property. When do the clowns show up to the property??? Answer; Hunting Season. Ask the fellas you gave permission slips to, to ask anyone they come across on the property to see their permission slip. No slip, you gotta go. Make like they are getting on their cell phones if they wont comply. It's very simple and it does work.
 
BH

Wounded Deer crosses posted property, call the Game Commission, here in 2B Jack will show up and assist you, Game Commission wants you to try to find wounded animals.  The Game Commission has a better chance of getting permission to follow up.

I don't often disagree with S-10, but I do here to some degree.  I hunt some very private ground that is locked in by private ground.  All those folks get along fine and if you can hunt one, you can hunt all, but they prefer you stay on where you have primary permission.  They have no problem with tresspassers because it is posted up solid as Sears used to be; they have a great relationship with local law enforcement (donations to the right charities, hunting permission to the right key people, etc); they have a great relationship with the local court system; and they are known to prosecute to the fullest extent of the law using evidence like cameras, video, and even private investigators. 
 
In other words, it is clearly known in the area that if you tresspass, you will get caught, you will be prosecuted, and you will lose.  It makes it just not worth the risk for most folks.
 
Do they catch everyone?  Obviously not.  But there are no treestands, there are no ATVs, there are no deer drives, and there are no altercations or even confrontations.
 
I have hunted the property for 5 years now and have not seen anyone that was not supposed to be there.  Just across the property line, which is advertised on the PGC website, by the way, yes, but crossing the line, no.  We have found one deer that wondered onto the property and died when wounded, but it doubtful that it was even followed up, let alone shot on the property.
 
BTW, with all the neighbors, this is abut 2500 -- 3000 acres, so no small piece to patrol.

I can relate to a lesser extent with the OP and stories like his are the reason why I only have a few properties available to hunt now.  It amazes me that people (many of them hunters) have such blatent disregard for land owners. 
 
My friend and I manage a small property owned by his family.  Trespassing hunters have run rampant on the property and theft and ATV use are also big problems on that property as well.  Since efforts to prevent unauthorized access to the property have been ramped up, things have improved somewhat from what it was 4-5 years ago.  I'll admit that there are times that I feel more like I'm taking on the role of a security guard rather than a hunter and it can be downright frustrating. 
 
I've certainly been involved in a few contentious confrontations over the last few years that I should have been smart enough to avoid, but didn't.  Anymore, I will not even entertain the bs that these idiots spew, now the protocol is as simple as take a photo with the cell and ask for ID.  If they provide ID, a certified letter is sent to them (copies to PD and magistrate) notifying them of their infraction and warning them of what will happen with future occurances.  If they fail to provide ID, I will call the cops immediately and let them handle it.  If they take off, the property is small enough that we can easily figure out where they came from or where they are parked.  So far we haven't had to call the cops, but we did recently send a certified letter to an intruder and it seemed to work pretty well.  News of the letter spread like wildfire locally and it became the talk of the local archery shop and all of the watering holes.  Word of mouth can work wonders...   

Maybe I am missing what you're trying to say here, but what legal mess would you be in if you authorize people who hunt on your land to enforce trespass on your behalf? 
 
I wouldn't want just anyone acting on my behalf because I could see it likely leading to headaches with too many self appointed sheriffs running around, but I don't see the legal issue with doing so.  Sometimes the more eyes you have watching your property, the better.    

    This has rightfully moved from me possibly posting which is good.
     There are liability issues in allowing others to patrol your property to enforce trespass infringements.
    It is ironic that today a partner I have on a property, called to tell me that a neighbor that we have had problems with got in trouble. In paper it said he was found guilty of trespass and not tagging a deer. Shows he was behaving himself on others property to. 

too bad most of the guys posting on this thread are the "honest good guys"....
 
My post was based on what I have heard from land owners and guys who have no problem hunting where every they want to and how to "get away with it"....
 
yeah they get caught every now and then and just leave and return some other day... they make up names, show no ID,  just turn and walk or run off....
 
and just for the record..  on having the vehicle  towed away..... better be **** sure the guy owning the car is on your property--  trespassing --  before you have the thing towed away...
 
A guy told me he had his truck towed but knew the landowner did not see him hunting there... so he cell phoned his buddy to come get him and then they called the police and reported the car stolen.. said it had broke down and he left it there to go get help and return ...   and puff it was gone ....... landowner had some "splaining" to do on that one .. the butt hole just thought is was funny as hell .... and gets a thrill ( I guess) at re-telling the story...
 
The problem is the landowner's hands are really tied when it come in "enforcing" the trespassing by himself or with a friend or even someone he "appoints" to patrol.... if they are not law enforcement types they have no rights to hold and detain, etc... the butts holes just walk away and 99% of the time long before and REAl law officer arrives
 
I may have told the story before but I was at a PGC function for the local high school when a student asked that "if the no trespassing sign was not "signed" by the land owner was it still okay to hunt there" ... the PGC officer explained that all property is privately owned  and a person needs permission PERIOD to be on that property..
 
 
the kid said  "no ..... my Dad said if it is not posted or the sign is not signed.. it's okay to hunt there... Honest .. True story ... LOL

 One of the people that they are bragging to about the towing should get some cahunas and be willing to testify, that fella needs his face in front of a magistrate

 
anyone "listening" to the bragging would NEVER be able to testify about anything if he was not there and personally witnessed the entire event...
 
I've been on several juries and that type testimony  (hear-say) is NEVER allowed....
 
but I agree maybe someday enforcement can be done in such a way that it would not be so easy to just trespass as one wished to...