Deer numbers

I see what you are saying, and it wouldn't make much of a difference, but do you think 16 percent natural loss is high or low?  2-1 female to male, is that pretty accurate?  I'm not being smart, I really don't know.  It doesn't seem that way to me, but it certainly could be.

that makes sense, thanks, it was late and i wasnt thinking right.  I agree that the numbers dont make sense in the OP.

Wouldnt matter. Obviously, it is when the population is at its greatest in a given year. The spiral would just take a little more time.

About where you see em? I seen all 16 in Guys Mills ( Crawford Co. ) on Saturday. Something tells me they travel great distances every day.
 
BH

According to the numbers the PGC uses to justify the doe tags we have the same number of deer now as we did BEFORE AR/HR. Two years ago from the PGC website by WMU they claimed we had 1,328,000 not counting the SRA's which they claim they no longer try to estimate.
 
Interesting that in the 90's the PGC claimed we were killing  25,000/40,000 deer on the highways and now with fewer deer we are dinging over 125,000.
 
Anybody care to guess on their harvest claims for the current season?

"No doubt deer numbers are down.  I don't think anyone argues that fact."

Of course we all know that.   But does a nonhunting very uneducated public when presented with statistics in a misleading manner (intentional or otherwise).  
 
If they are speaking in terms of estimated collisions and if previously they had been speaking of actual just prior to hr I would say that's rather deceitful. Intentionally or not would be debatable, but imho pgcs actions over the last 15 speaks for itself in that regard.
 
Also I think its funny how a stakeholder group that undeniably benefits financially from the reduction of deer  has their numbers used in the pgc propaganda campaign at all, or merits mentioning.  What good comes of it?   Pgc supposedly determines herd status etc. utilizing trends in their OWN various data sets.   Nobody can tell us how many deer collisions we SHOULD have and would be "acceptable",  and it just fosters the common rumors of pgc being "in bed" with insurance companies.  What good comes of it for THEM is that many will see the number, say WOW that's a lot of deer, we need fewer.  At least that's what pgc is hoping.
 
Insurance giving their input and having it used in propaganda campaign is certainly no worse than dcnr pushing for and spearheading the "regeneration studies" and it being used to determine our "direction"  I guess.   Another "unbiased" concerned stakeholder looking out for all the citizens of the state...or so Im told. (lmao)
 
 
 
 
 
 

You have to remember that the way they do the numbers, since 2005 a actual decrease of 25% from the 2005 population is still considered stable. The crossover point between being considered stable and being considered a decrease is somewhere between a 26% and 29% decrease using their own figures on their website. Something about figures don't lie but (you get the picture). They totally ignore the population in the 90's except to claim it was abnormal.

EHD?

eyesandgillz
EHD?

Might be contributing overall. I suspect that we are getting hit some every year by EHD despite it not being officially documented. The one farm I hunt is in one of the hot zones for some reason. We find deer remains every fall but it is hard to really tell if it is coyotes or EHD at that point. The ones close to water we chalk up to EHD.

We don't shoot many does now, but interestingly enough, one of our best bucks years came the year right after the worst of our EHD outbreaks.

Wayne,
 
We have seen 6 coyotes the first week alone. I missed one but our crew has gotten two females so far. As we were carrying one out Saturday at dusk, the coyotes were going off on the next ridge over. 
 
I also saw a bobcat. 

I bought a cat tag this year just in case. Would love to add one to go with my black coyote.

Eyes,

We released one a few years ago and the sounds that came from that thing are sounds you never forget. Pretty cool stuff for sure.

Cats are not good to noose if you want it to live. Very soft throats unlike dogs. Damage can be easily done. Best way to release a cat is with a piece of plywood that has a notch cut out of it in the bottom. Work the chain into the notch and push to cat till the paw  and trap is free to undo the jaws. 
 
Not pretty or easy but way better for the cat. 

"Cats are not good to noose if you want it to live."
 
 Ive read instances of some very noted trappers doing it, figured if it was good nuff for them was good nuff for me.  Ive also read of their concerns when doing so.   Of course there are precautions need be taken....  Only hold the noose as tight as need be to so as the cat cant escape it.  NOT pull on the noose as hard as one can or overdo it.   ALso don't leave it on any longer than necessary for cat to go out, no longer.   Have to use common sense of course.   Dad and I discussed it during the ordeal and he was on the same page.     This cat was fit as a fiddle.  After coming to, I watched him very closely.  A minute or so after coming to, he was perfectly alert, no respiratory or any other distress, just didn't know the trap was off his foot.   Then like said, took off like a jet when branch or two hit near his rump.
 
"Very soft throats unlike dogs."
 
Not exactly as delicate as a petunia blossom that'll wilt if touched.. lol, but yeah, they aren't as sturdy there as the very tough dog family necks, and I would imagine much more difficult to choke down a dog and thankfully they only have a mouth, and not a mouth plus 4 clawed paws so you never would have to.   Now that you mention it I have several times read of guys using the plywood method, and would certainly seem to be a little easier on all involved.  Never really given a whole ton of thought to it, through the years most of our land lines have been void of cats and often our traps are well off the roads, and often we trap individually alone, and carrying a fair amount of remake gear...and sometimes an animal to boot,  but it may actually be worth the hike back to the truck once in a rare case of a trapped cat, at least having one it the truck.   A little easier no doubt.
 
I personally would have no qualms about dad or myself doing the deed again as described if needed, but if someone else asked my opinion on how to do it, Im with ya, they should probably use the plywood method.   And may even do so myself in the future if I can remember to throw it in the truck especially if two of us are trapping and it can be a two person job. Might be kinda tough with only one person holding the wood and releasing the springs on the trap.   Could get interesting real quick lol. 
 
 
 
  
 

Wayne, very cool pics.  I have never seen a cat in the woods.  Coyotes and bears have infiltrated my area pretty good within the last 5 years though...
 
Back to the deer, I haven't been hearing any good reports thus far from friends and coworkers hunting in PA this season.  This includes some reports from the supposed deer mecca known as 2B. 
 
I will be out with my buddy tomorrow once it warms up trying some silent drives to help him fill his buck tag.  Good luck to everyone.