The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish?

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just_wanna_fish
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2012/10/31 18:38:36 (permalink)

The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish?

do the Amish really over hunt and fish areas and if so, were? i have never been anywere when droves of Amish roll up but then again most of my hunting and fishing (lately) is within an 1:30 minutes of monroeville.

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#1

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    spoonchucker
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2012/10/31 19:18:14 (permalink)
    Alot of people believe they do. Yet there always seems to be enough left, for them to "over harvest" the next year, and the next. So judge for yourself. I'd say to some degree, and more in certain areas, but not as much as many people percieve.

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    #2
    just_wanna_fish
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2012/10/31 19:54:03 (permalink)
    the jealousy thing could be valid, i personally have never even seen any Amish hunting or fishing. people feel a need to blame something or someone when there isnt any fish or game. I keep hearing tionesta is hunted out, talking to a guy yesterday i ask is tionesta really as bad as i hear? he wips out his phone and shows me a pic of his buddies monster buck, in one of the areas i was considering buying a camp. short of spending countless hours of scouting and a million dollars in gas how the hell do you know. haha

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    #3
    S-10
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2012/10/31 20:43:10 (permalink)
    Yes they do in many areas. You have to remember that they hunt for food as our ancestors did, not sport, and as such, do not practice catch and  release. If it's legal, it's dead. In addition they normally have large families and they all have licenses and doe tags if they can get them. It is truly brown and down. They also hunt in groups and are very good at what they do.
    Part of the property I killed my buck on is posted no doe hunting because of the Amish and the landowner said if that doesn't work it will be no trespassing next.
    As for Tionesta, ask your buddy how many bucks the guy has killed there in the last decade.
    post edited by S-10 - 2012/10/31 20:51:32
    #4
    SmMouthSeeker
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2012/10/31 21:02:41 (permalink)
    just_wanna_fish

    do the Amish really over hunt and fish areas and if so, were? i have never been anywere when droves of Amish roll up but then again most of my hunting and fishing (lately) is within an 1:30 minutes of monroeville.

    I've heard the stories too, but somebody always has to put the blame on somebody else. I'm around the Amish, I know they follow the rules just like the rest of us. They only take what they are allowed to have. I'm not saying that some don't, but many of us English are just as guilty. 
    #5
    bingsbaits
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2012/10/31 21:35:45 (permalink)
    What hurts is the shear number of tags they can get legally.
    They all have hunting lscences with as many tags as they can get.
    We rode around our block one night and made a guestimate of the number of tags in our 2 mile square area.
    The numbers were scary, not that many deer in the township.
     
    I live right in the heart of amish country, I hunt their land they hunt mine.
    They are just much better at killing deer than us Yankees are. 
    I would like to see stats on how many of their tags get filled compared to how many of the Yankees get filled.
    They are subsistance hunting, most of us a re sport hunting there is a difference.
     
    They do like to fill all the families tags and some times I question just who is killing those deer that get tagged...
     
     
    They can have an affect on a fishery that is struggling. They will keep every legal fish they put a hook in and then some. If we all did that there would be NO fish.....
     
     

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    #6
    HereLilFishy
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2012/10/31 22:47:10 (permalink)
    If not the Amish it must be the Russians then?
    #7
    CRAPPIE_SLAYER
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2012/10/31 23:21:00 (permalink)
    Not sure about the whole thing with the dutchies, but as far as Tionesta goes, was at a camp with some friends last weekend, and in 3 days of grouse / turkey hunting I saw 4 shooter 8 points.  Pretty decent average I thought.
    #8
    spoonchucker
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2012/11/01 01:46:59 (permalink)
    Well there is an estimated Amish population of 63,000 for the entire state. Since hunting& fishing would not be "womanly" activities, you can eliminate at least 40 percent from that. Then probly another 5-10% at least that are too young or too old ( fishing ), and 10-15% ( hunting ).  That leaves the Amish holding 3-4% of the total licenses in Penna at MOST. As there are also no doubt some that are too busy farming or working other jobs to fish.
     
    You decide how much of an impact ( overall ) that they have on fish/game populations compared to the rest of us. Granted in areas where their population is denser, the impact will be higher. But is it really as high as percieved?

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    #9
    just_wanna_fish
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2012/11/01 06:32:06 (permalink)
    good point spoon
     
     

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    #10
    S-10
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2012/11/01 06:33:27 (permalink)
    Statewide their impact may be marginal but in the areas where they have settled ( such as where Bings and where I live ) Their impact is significant. When you see 10-15 buggies surrounding a block of woods setting up for a deer drive knowing a fawn is in as much trouble as a buck or adult doe they can and do have a huge local inpact just as EHD has in areas where it is found. They hunt and fish as a way of life, they keep everything they catch and kill everything they can. Local landowners post to try to keep them out but they apparently confuse POSTED with WELCOME in this area. I no longer hunt areas where they are active because scouting and spotting has shown it is not worthwhile.
    #11
    just_wanna_fish
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2012/11/01 07:05:14 (permalink)
    thats perfectly understandable S-10. I have seen them at farmers markets getting into cars and say wtf ? people tell me they hire drivers to get there. ok i understand that, but when i hear they also hire drivers and roll up could be anywhere and just desimate an area i have to say where ? i have never seen this. some people talk like they are locust, oh crap Amish.
    i look at the harvest report for what its worth, WMU 2F 5400 buck one of the lowest in the state  WMU 2B 4500 buck and 17000 doe ahhh to me thats a no brainer. then you hear stories of the guys wife who packs his underware in his gun case then he comes back from "camp" and says you didnt pack any underware. WHY is your wife packing your gear?

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    #12
    Bogeyjoker
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2012/11/01 08:47:00 (permalink)
    spoonchucker 

    Since hunting& fishing would not be "womanly" activities, you can eliminate at least 40 percent from that.


    They may be "womanly" activities spoonie, but that doesn't stop them from getting tags.
     
    Like Bings, I hunt around the Amish quite a bit.  Like he and S-10 said they put on drives and are often quite effective.  I used to get pizzed off when they'd tromp through my property at first light on the first day of the rifle season as I don't like seeing anyone for the first two or three hours of daylight.  But that went away after the property behind us was posted.  However, I never really had a problem with them harvesting critters out of season or with using illegal methods.
     
    My patience threshold is much greater with sustenance harvesting than with trophy hunters...although, as noted, sustenance hunters can put on much more of a hurt on a game population.  Around here...that's not much of a problem yet.
     
    Fishing, on the other hand, is a different story.
    post edited by Bogeyjoker - 2012/11/01 08:50:33

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    #13
    Dr. Trout
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2012/11/01 09:30:53 (permalink)
    The main difference I see, as mentioned, is the Amish hunt/fish for a totally different reason... not many of the ones I know even think or worry about getting "trophies" they want the meat for the family dinner table.. and I imagine it's the same when it's fishing.. the food.. not the size .
     
    The Amish do not seem to be as hell-bent on bragging about the trophy deer or fish they harvest..
     
    seeing 10-15 buggies is not much different then when I see 10-15 or more cars/trucks in a SGL parking lot. around here..  other than on the SGL,  the hunters , for the most part, are all going in different directions and different nearby locations to set-up and wait ..
    the Amish , for the most part, put on "drives" as their means of hunting deer..
    Probably a much better "percentage" way of successful deer hunting... when meat is the goal of the hunt.
     
    I know "English" families that have tags for every member of the family too and fill as many of them as they can, and I am sure some of their "wives" never venture into the woods but have a tag filled for them..... 
     
    and I hear as many Amish guys complaining about a lack of deer as "English" deer hunters.
     
    I agree with some of those posting above... I think it's just another way of complaining and blaming somone or something about deer numbers and not wanting to give credit to the fact that "drives" (like in the old days for the "English") are a very effect way of hunting whitetails....
    #14
    bulldog1
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2012/11/01 12:40:31 (permalink)
    My experience says that in areas where they are concentrated they do have an impact, both fishing and hunting. If it's legal and can be eaten they kill/keep it. How many here would keep a stringer full of 4" crappie??? 
     
    But let's not hate them, who would Harry watch peeing while eating his ice cream without them?

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    #15
    DanesDad
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2012/11/01 15:54:32 (permalink)
    There is an Amish settlement up near my camp and in archery, a van would bring about ten to twelve of them up and they would set up a tent camp in the woods.  Those guys hunted all day, every day for two weeks.  At that time, the van brought replacements and took the first crew out.  The second crew went for another two weeks. Then they were replaced.  I dont think they missed one minute of the open season.  I'm sure they put a hurting on the deer there, but these people hunt to eat.  I hunt for fun.  So, while I may not particularly like it, I can accept it.
     
    Plus, I can jump in my truck and be hunting 100 miles away in two hours.
    #16
    DarDys
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2012/11/01 17:22:02 (permalink)
    spoonchucker

    Well there is an estimated Amish population of 63,000 for the entire state. Since hunting& fishing would not be "womanly" activities, you can eliminate at least 40 percent from that. Then probly another 5-10% at least that are too young or too old ( fishing ), and 10-15% ( hunting ).  That leaves the Amish holding 3-4% of the total licenses in Penna at MOST. As there are also no doubt some that are too busy farming or working other jobs to fish.

    You decide how much of an impact ( overall ) that they have on fish/game populations compared to the rest of us. Granted in areas where their population is denser, the impact will be higher. But is it really as high as percieved?

    By that logic, no one should be concerned with gang violence in urban areas because they comprise such a small segment of the population of a city, a state and the country. 
     
    Ask the folks in Chicago if having a concentrated population of a certain subset is an issue and see what their answers is.
     
    BTW, I see where they are striking the bullet tax from the proposal, but keeping the gun tax.  I guess that is because the thugs go to the sporting goods stores to buy a gun, but they get their bullets on the street.  The gun tax is supposed to bring in $600,000 (for both it was $1 million) to be used to help defray the healthcare costs of shooting victims -- isn't that what Obamacare was for -- to pay for health insurance for the uninsured.  Of course the person proposing the legislation wants $2 million dollars to go for that purpose.  Somehow that math doesn't work.  Neither does the plan.

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    #17
    retired guy
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2012/11/01 21:58:45 (permalink)
    Just another excuse for the antis to use.
    #18
    SmMouthSeeker
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2012/11/02 20:25:33 (permalink)
    For all you guys that burn your doe tags, the Amish make up the loss.
    #19
    psu_fish
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2012/11/02 21:17:34 (permalink)
    Clarion County has good Amish population as well. Heck, even one out by me has a deer farm up and running.
     
     
     
    I've always wondered why the Amish don't raise more cattle? What difference would it make if its venison or beef when it comes to preserving the meat without refrigeration/freezing?  
     
     
    #20
    just_wanna_fish
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2012/11/02 21:41:24 (permalink)
    I can honestly say i have never burnt a doe tag. i have however passed on small deer for several years only to come up skunked. i have had the conversation with my buddy, why is it that we have not taken any deer here and they never get bigger and there is never any more than last year.
    i will be the first to admitt ohh say 7 years ago when we first started hunting the area ( a small local spot ) we over hunted i got my buck and 2 doe he got his buck and 2 doe and another guy got his buck and 2 doe. but still we would see a lot of deer, suddenly it seems like overnight poof gone, all we would see are the "pets" always 3 always the same size every year coming in the back yard. at one point i saw more coyote tracks than deer. are coyote killing deer ? i have to say yes. the irony is late season is the only time we see "differant" deer. in years past it was hard to get a doe tag now you can look at the allocation map and see the game comish is condoning the erradication of deer in higher populated areas. and i have told them as much im sure they took it to heart. the PGC uses us as tools last year 1 bear was taken in allegheny county plus many sightings now this year quite the expanded bear season. so is allowing us to hunt bears to the point of extinction in allegheny county again a good thing? now you have the "cripplers" out there with bows winging arrows at bears. suddenly the bear your neighbor has been feeding is wounded hiding under his deck, might be a recipie for disaster. and i still have no idea were the hords of Amish are haha

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    #21
    psu_fish
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2012/11/04 19:50:15 (permalink)
    leave the city and head north 
    #22
    krott243
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2012/11/05 05:44:35 (permalink)
    Amish are pretty good people and sportsman as well. Im sure some do it illegally but there is people around like that everywhere, amish or not. Like Docto said, I have never once been denied permission to hunt an amish farm. They always open their land up to hunters. As far as over hunting, I bet there is not an amish person around who hunts or fishes more hours in a week than I do, so do I consider myself over hunting and fishing?  No. Although I give a lot of meat away, Im sure they use every bit they harvest. I say let them do what they want if there in the legal boundries of it.

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    #23
    crappiefisher
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2023/01/27 14:51:48 (permalink)
      I have met and know a good number of Amish that live close to Pymie lake and not one of them fish. Counted 17 buck late this summer while sitting on front porch up there in Amish community surrounding. There is a wildlife sanctuary area a few hundred yards behind my place though. Wish some of them fished so could've helped me out a bit.
    #24
    dpms
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2023/02/06 13:06:52 (permalink)
    Holy smokes. This old thread brought back some names from the past. I know Dr Trout passed away from a heart attack. I think Spoonchucker is not with us any longer as well? Maybe someone can confirm that? S-10 used to be a regular contributor but have not seen him around at all over quite a few years. 

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    #25
    crappiefisher
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2023/02/06 16:03:46 (permalink)
     Stopped at a Amish homestead yesterday to see if the week of the 20th is still a go for them to work on my place. Counted 8--14 deer in 4 fields and 5 or less in a few others, 3 mile drive. Bald Eagle in son's back yard today plus around 150--200 geese across the street.
    #26
    Panfisher
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    Re:The Amish, do they really over hunt and fish? 2023/02/13 10:42:25 (permalink)
    dpms
    Holy smokes. This old thread brought back some names from the past. I know Dr Trout passed away from a heart attack. I think Spoonchucker is not with us any longer as well? Maybe someone can confirm that? S-10 used to be a regular contributor but have not seen him around at all over quite a few years. 




    Yes, spoonchucker passed several years ago and as you said Dr. Trout passed as well.

    The only thing better than 1 day of fishing is 2 days of fishing.
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