Your thoughts? 
TastyTrout
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Your thoughts?
This post originated in another thread that got a bit off topic, but it turned into being taught the right way to hunt (gun control, ethics/morals). It was my grandfather that brought me up hunting even before I was the legal age to hunt. He would let me tag along with him as soon as I got to the point where I could sit in the woods and not talk too much and ruin his hunt (he leared that the hard way!).
Which brings me to my next question. Do you think adults today lack the passion for the sport to successfully teach younger hunters, or do you think it's the lack of the passion in young hunters?
I know I might get bashed for speaking up about a lack of passion for adults so let me explain. I have an 18 year old cousin that has been coming with us hunting off and on since he's been 12. Some years he says he has stuff to do, other years he comes along. His father does nothing at all to keep him intereted in the sport or encourage him to do so. When I offer to bring him along with me scouting or to hunting camp (like I did this year) I'm told no by his father.....on the other hand this kid would fish 365 days a year if he could. I firmly feel that it's because when he was younger his father used to ALWAYS take him fishing and make it seem fun. Hopefully that story gives some background to my question.
What do others think?
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths. Jimmy D Moore
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dpms
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/04 15:29:00
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ORIGINAL: TastyTrout
Which brings me to my next question. Do you think adults today lack the passion for the sport to successfully teach younger hunters, or do you think it's the lack of the passion in young hunters?
Both. Way more avenues for kids to explore today compared to when I started hunting. And the passion for the sport among adults is dropping like a stone, in general. Some bright spots on a gloomy horizon but the trend is downward. Heck, my BIL hunts and fishes but as yet has never taken his 10 y/o son with him scouting, setting stands, hunting or even fishing on the first day of trout. I am taking him this year with me trout fishing while his dad fishes by himself. That will be our biggest challenge as hunters moving forward. Being able to place oursleves and our sport in a affective position from which to defend what we enjoy doing against the antis.
My rifle is a black rifle
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S-10
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/04 15:40:59
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Lots of peer pressure in urban schools and colleges against hunting to contend with which hurts the sport plus many more things to keep kids occupied these days.
Partly because the adults remember what good hunting was and many have lost interest in spending the same or more time in prusuit of fewer animals. You don't need a license or to lug around a heavy weapon to enjoy the scenery.
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rmcmillen09
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/04 20:45:50
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I have always enjoyed the outdoors , hunting , hiking, snorkeling ,hunting arrowheads in fields ect. Fishing on the other hand is my favorite of all. We're all different I suppose
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SmMouthSeeker
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/04 21:56:48
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If it isn't fun, kids don't do it. With hunting, you often have to get up early in the morning, endure bad weather, freeze your butt off, walk or stand all day, and if you don't see or shoot anything, they get discouraged quickly.
With fishing, it's done when you prefer to do it, only takes a few hours, done in warm weather, and you see results when you catch fish. They don't see catching a fish the same way as they do killing an animal.
Hunting isn't for everyone, and if it's not for them, don't force it on them. My dad didn't hunt when I was a teen, so I had to rely on friends dad's to take me instead, but him and I did a lot of fishing together. He sucked at it, but it didn't matter to me.
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TastyTrout
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/05 13:09:12
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ORIGINAL: SmMouthSeeker
If it isn't fun, kids don't do it. With hunting, you often have to get up early in the morning, endure bad weather, freeze your butt off, walk or stand all day, and if you don't see or shoot anything, they get discouraged quickly.
With fishing, it's done when you prefer to do it, only takes a few hours, done in warm weather, and you see results when you catch fish. They don't see catching a fish the same way as they do killing an animal.
Hunting isn't for everyone, and if it's not for them, don't force it on them. My dad didn't hunt when I was a teen, so I had to rely on friends dad's to take me instead, but him and I did a lot of fishing together. He sucked at it, but it didn't matter to me.
A few good points...however, the type of fishing I'm talking about isn't your warm weather trip to a pond to catch bass and bluegill. He's a walleye fisherman so much of it involved getting up early, freezing your butt off, sitting somewhere uncomfortable, and not all the time results in catching a fish. I do think you're correct in the fact that is has to be fun for someone though. Is the only "fun" thing about hunting killing an animal. I didn't kill my first deer until I was 15 years old. For the 3 years before that the "fun" things to me were holding the gun (has to be fun to every kid), seeing wildlife, getting to take off school (bad reason), being away in the mountains, campfires, etc. That's the fun stuff. I was thrilled when I killed my first deer but there's certainly other fun things. Hunting isn't for everyone. You're correct on that. The point that I made was that in some cases there's a lack of passion in adults to give children the opportunity to enjoy hunting. You can't enjoy something that you haven't been given the opportunity to experience in the right way. Now if in fact someone doesn't enjoy it then in no way shape or form should it be pushed on someone. Sitting in the woods gazing at trees would be terrible for someone who doesn't find the experience enjoyable even at it's finest.
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths. Jimmy D Moore
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Big Tuna
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/05 13:35:23
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It's a funny thing hunting,some of my friends have sons some of them hunt and the other ones have no desire to do it.I'm 59 so back (in the old days) there where not so many things for young kids to do,sports,hunting and fishing was about it.My grandfather was a big part of my outdoors,he always had a pair of beagles and loved to squirrel hunt and fished every chance he got and I was right there with him even when I was to young to hunt.When my son was 5 or 6 I took him squirrel hunting my wife said don't be disappionted if me doesn't want to do it.Well every sat. in hunting season I'd ask him if he wanted to go some days he would be so pumped and other days he would pass,I NEVER PUSHED HIM.now he'27 and loves it all,he is a great bow hunter and kills two bucks almost every year with his bow( Pa.& Oh.) loves to bust honkers,Spring turkey,and small game hunt rabbits(when we had hounds)he crazy about ice fishing,shrooming and just loves the outdoors.I'm glad he loves it and it's a big part of his life as mine.
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TastyTrout
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/05 17:01:47
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ORIGINAL: Big Tuna
It's a funny thing hunting,some of my friends have sons some of them hunt and the other ones have no desire to do it.I'm 59 so back (in the old days) there where not so many things for young kids to do,sports,hunting and fishing was about it.My grandfather was a big part of my outdoors,he always had a pair of beagles and loved to squirrel hunt and fished every chance he got and I was right there with him even when I was to young to hunt.When my son was 5 or 6 I took him squirrel hunting my wife said don't be disappionted if me doesn't want to do it.Well every sat. in hunting season I'd ask him if he wanted to go some days he would be so pumped and other days he would pass,I NEVER PUSHED HIM.now he'27 and loves it all,he is a great bow hunter and kills two bucks almost every year with his bow( Pa.& Oh.) loves to bust honkers,Spring turkey,and small game hunt rabbits(when we had hounds)he crazy about ice fishing,shrooming and just loves the outdoors.I'm glad he loves it and it's a big part of his life as mine.
Tuna...your post brings up something that I was talking about specifically. Back in the old days there wasn't much at all for kids to do so hunting/fishing/outdoors was really something from them to look forward to. I didn't experience it but I can't imagine it would have been too hard for a father to get his son to go when you were a youngster. Your son and I are the same age so I know that when we grew up the video games, sports, etc. existed and for some can take away the chance to go hunting. That was more of what I was talking about. These days it requires some effort for a father to try and give his son/daughter the opportunity to enjoy the sport.
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths. Jimmy D Moore
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bingsbaits
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/05 17:25:33
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Out here in the country in 1972 getting your hunting liscence could only have been surpassed by getting your drivers liscense...  It was a huge deal for us back then to pass the HSC and get our first liscence. Small Game hunting "was" our entertainment back then in the fall. Single shot 20 gauge and Grouse everywhere.
"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
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startinout
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/05 19:16:55
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I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that lots of people start their kids of at 5 or 6 years old playing baseball or soccer but wait until they're 11 or 12 to get them out into the woods and starting to hunt. By then, their interests are other sports just because they don't want to start something new. I've been letting my son tag along with me squirrel hunting since he was three. His kindergarden teacher emailed my wife at the start of the schoolyear and said she had to laugh when he told her he had to learn to read this year so that he could take his "hunting class" and shoot squirrels with me.
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TastyTrout
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/06 08:38:57
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ORIGINAL: startinout
His kindergarden teacher emailed my wife at the start of the schoolyear and said she had to laugh when he told her he had to learn to read this year so that he could take his "hunting class" and shoot squirrels with me.
That's precious. Glad to see you're starting him out young. More importantly though he's involved in sports and hunting and will have the opportunity to choose what his interests are...rather than wait until he's 11 or 12 when his mind is made up like you mentioned. Sort of what I was getting at in my original post. Adults might enjoy our own relaxation in the woods to much to take a youngster along who might make a bit too much noise. But we need to look past that and get the youth involved.
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths. Jimmy D Moore
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dpms
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/06 12:57:17
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ORIGINAL: TastyTrout
Adults might enjoy our own relaxation in the woods to much to take a youngster along who might make a bit too much noise. But we need to look past that and get the youth involved.
Exactly the reason why a buddy of mine has yet to take his son deer hunting. Not because he wants to relax in the woods, but he is afraid it will mess up his chances at getting a buck for himself. 
My rifle is a black rifle
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bingsbaits
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/06 13:07:29
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That's to bad. I would think one of the greatest joys one could experience while hunting is watching his son grow into a hunter and possibly harvest a deer. Hope to be there in a couple years......
"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
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TastyTrout
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/06 13:19:35
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ORIGINAL: dpms
ORIGINAL: TastyTrout
Adults might enjoy our own relaxation in the woods to much to take a youngster along who might make a bit too much noise. But we need to look past that and get the youth involved.
Exactly the reason why a buddy of mine has yet to take his son deer hunting. Not because he wants to relax in the woods, but he is afraid it will mess up his chances at getting a buck for himself.
That's terrible. Has he considered taking him scouting, squirrel hunting, or another form of hunting that doesn't require total silence?
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths. Jimmy D Moore
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rmcmillen09
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/07 17:33:25
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My cousin 5 years back called me from Cleveland and asked if I would take him deer hunting,He was 33 years old and hunted for years only seeing a brown blurr run by 1 time. I told him about the 4 on 1 side regs here and he still wanted to go. Took him out in fall turkey to a great spot with birds ,deer ect. He didn't know anything about being still when on stand. Arms moving up and down, talking too loud, not observing watching his phone more than his surroundings. I asked him didn't your dad take you out when you were a teen? He answered yes,but they never got a shot or saw anything. So we took care of the noise, movement,observation problem within an hour after we set in. Ended grunting in 3 different bucks that evening while we were turkey hunting 1 of which was a wall hanger 6 point massive rack with no brow tines.He could not believe it wasn't a legal buck. First day of rifle season we went out before daylight, and I had him post on the best trail I knew of there. At 10:30 he came over to where I was and we ate our subs setting on a stump talking about our next move to another afternoon spot.He told me a 6 walked by him twice so close he could have tossed a rock underhand and hit him. A few minutes went by and I saw something move about 100 yds through the trees no snow to background it and it was gone. I told him lets just watch close and I would grunt a few times. About a minute later here comes a deer from the spot we were watching. Zoomed in on 9 X and it was a legal buck coming right at us.Had Marc get ready with his .270 and wait for a shot.All the sudden he lowered his rifle and his hunting coat slid down the black cherry he was standing by and said it was gone! At 40 yds it was broadside to me and I told him to get ready again and wait for it to move in front of him.It did and he put one in the heart. Now he sends me pics of his archery and shotgun deer from Ohio yearly :) If you think this story is long you should have been there when he made all that noise lowering his rifle to tell me the deer was gone!,time stood still for me that day.
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rmcmillen09
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/07 17:40:39
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Agree Bing on the 72 thing cept it was 74 for me, and a single 16 Ga. with lots of grouse also.
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retired guy
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/07 18:06:31
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Great story- Nothin like the first time -even when it aint you.
I was there for my youngest sons first at age 13 and my oldest didnt hunt till later on and I missed his first. Never the less it a great sport and if they dont really want to get involved early on - its never too late.
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SmMouthSeeker
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/12 22:09:19
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Do you think adults today lack the passion for the sport to successfully teach younger hunters, or do you think it's the lack of the passion in young hunters? TT, I used to work in a hospital with a lot of females, and a few guys on my shift. There were only 4 guys on my shift that hunted and/or fished and we would constantly talk about it in front of every one and it was noticed by all, and in a good way. Those of us that hunted/fished were always being asked by our coworkers to take their kids hunting or fishing with us. It seemed to me, those women who were in their 30's or 40's, who were either married to someone who didn't hunt or fish, or those women who were divorced wanted someone to teach their kids the sport of hunting or fishing because they felt they needed someone like us in their life. If the kid had a dad, I always tried to take him along too and show him what to do. Another thing I've noticed, is that 2 of my coworkers who remarried, married someone who liked the outdoors and they too, started to do things that they never done before. So in retro, I feel the passion is there and it's recognized as well as understood by most.
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ray126
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/13 10:10:31
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We live in an instant gratification world.Too much emphasis on the kill,not the hunt.Growing up it was about enjoying nature and the wonderment of outdoors.The kill means nothing to me.It is not a competitive sport
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DarDys
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/13 10:51:16
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ORIGINAL: dpms
ORIGINAL: TastyTrout
Adults might enjoy our own relaxation in the woods to much to take a youngster along who might make a bit too much noise. But we need to look past that and get the youth involved.
Exactly the reason why a buddy of mine has yet to take his son deer hunting. Not because he wants to relax in the woods, but he is afraid it will mess up his chances at getting a buck for himself.
While I will agree with the sentiment that this can be viewed as rather selfish, I can somewhat relate to it. A friend of mine, who during the "good old days" was good for an antelress deer about every other or every third year and a buck about every 5-7 years has a 12-year-old-son. Since AR/HR, he has not seen a legal buck and has harvested (killed, whatever) two antlerless deer. In other words, he hasn't, like many posting here "killed enough of them so that if i don't kill another one, that is okay." He is still in the I-want-to-harvest-a-deer mode. There are many that are just like him -- extremely busy professionals -- read that as 50 -60 hours per week -- that have many other committments, many of which also deal with their children, that get out the 2 -3 days that they can and they want to shoot a deer. He lives where there is a lot of leased, posted, and private ground where access is a real issue, even with the neighbors whom he has known for years -- they just don't believe in hunting. Traveling hours each direction is not an option. His son is into fishing and he takes him as often as possible. My friend has reached the point of not needing to catch any more. But his son doesn't hunt. He shows some interest, but not a lot. And since my friend is stiil searching for his own deer hunting fill, having never reached it, he isn't going to push him, instead adhereing to the thought train of the right time to take a kid hunting is when he askes to go. Would it be my philosophy, probably not, but I understand where he is coming from.
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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DarDys
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/13 10:55:43
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ORIGINAL: ray126
We live in an instant gratification world.Too much emphasis on the kill,not the hunt.Growing up it was about enjoying nature and the wonderment of outdoors.The kill means nothing to me.It is not a competitive sport
While I will agree that hunting is not a competitive sport, hunting, whether anyone wants to admit it or not, is about the kill. One can enjoy the outdoors without buying a bunch of equipment, going only when the PGC permits one to, when the weather is the best, etc. That is not to say that one cannot enjoy the outdoors when hunting, that is a big part of it, but one can enjoy the outdoors without going hunting. If hunting were not about the kill, then why tote along a weapon intended to kill? Just leave the weapon at home and call your time in nature hunting.
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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TastyTrout
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/13 11:22:01
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ORIGINAL: DarDys
While I will agree that hunting is not a competitive sport, hunting, whether anyone wants to admit it or not, is about the kill. I'm so glad that someone finally said it. I've been thinking the same thing for days but kept it to myself in fear of people going off and the thread getting locked.
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths. Jimmy D Moore
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TastyTrout
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/13 11:22:54
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ORIGINAL: DarDys
[ Just leave the weapon at home and call your time in nature hunting.
And then you could do it on Sundays! 
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths. Jimmy D Moore
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S-10
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/13 12:09:48
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1. The reason I go for many walks in the woods----------------------------------To enjoy nature and all it has to offer.
2. The reason I sometimes carry a gun or bow while walking in the woods.--------To kill something.
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ray126
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/13 16:56:06
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With the kill,the hunts over.The hunt gives alot of us an excuse to be out.Have killed alot,I'll just enjoy the hunt
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TastyTrout
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/13 17:02:49
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ORIGINAL: ray126
With the kill,the hunts over.The hunt gives alot of us an excuse to be out.Have killed alot,I'll just enjoy the hunt
I see no problem with people that have that opinion....as long as they aren't the same ones complaining about the lack of deer. The two are contradictory. The hunt (being in the woods) for me is about finding an animal I can kill, not about watching the birds fly around.
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths. Jimmy D Moore
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DarDys
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/14 07:25:47
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ORIGINAL: ray126
With the kill,the hunts over.The hunt gives alot of us an excuse to be out.Have killed alot,I'll just enjoy the hunt
Why do you feel that you need hunting as "an excuse to be out." If you want to be out, just go.
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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dpms
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/14 07:49:29
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I have sat many hours in stands, still hunted, taken vacation time, left work early to hunt with my rifle in firearms season with no intention of filling the only tags I had left, antlerless. Peculiar behavior to some but it is the hunt that that pulls me there. Some times, I just say "bang" instead of pulling the trigger. When I do pull the trigger, I am quite satisfied with that accomplishment and emotion as well.
post edited by dpms - 2012/03/14 07:52:32
My rifle is a black rifle
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TastyTrout
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/14 08:29:50
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ORIGINAL: dpms
Peculiar behavior to some but it is the hunt that that pulls me there.
Don't mean to pick but then what is it about the "hunt" specifically that causes you to do those things with no intention of pulling the trigger? I'm not really looking for a "love of the outdoors" or "just relaxing in the wilderness" generic response. More or less why you take time away from work to take a weapon into the woods with no intention to shoot. As mentioned previously one can get out and take a walk through the woods at any given time if they have no intention of killing and aren't focused on the kill.
post edited by TastyTrout - 2012/03/14 08:31:22
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths. Jimmy D Moore
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S-10
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RE: Your thoughts?
2012/03/14 08:44:44
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Peculiar behavior to some but it is the hunt that that pulls me there. Some times, I just say "bang" instead of pulling the trigger. Would you have shot a coyote if you had the chance?
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