S-10
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/05 13:49:31
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How many days a year do you guys get out hunting and are you for or against Sunday hunting? It's all a matter of priorties. I am now retired but for 36 years I averaged right around a 48 hour work week plus the normal honey do list. I did shift work for much of that time and bid on jobs to get a shift that allowed me the most hunting time, I traded shifts when necessary, saved 90% of my vacation for hunting season, turned down at least 3 promotions because they were 8 to 5 jobs, turned down another because it meant moving to a city rather than living in the country and worked Sundays rather than Saturdays when I could. When my seniority gave me daylight hours I traded shifts with the night guy which made him vey happy. When I went into management I got even more creative. If you want to do something bad enough you find a way. If it's just one of many things you want to do then that is a life choice. I hunted a lot and there was a lot more game to be had. Enjoyment is a matter of seeing game when you can get out, not having to spend a lot more time out just to see game.
post edited by S-10 - 2012/03/05 14:53:33
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dpms
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/05 14:15:47
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ORIGINAL: TastyTrout
How many days a year do you guys get out hunting and are you for or against Sunday hunting? In my case I fully support legislation that transfers regulatory control of Sunday hunting to the PGC. As for the expansion of Sunday hunting, I support a slow guarded approach for implementation. Possibly bear, small game and youth turkey intitially. I hunt alot at the same time hold down a full time job. I pretty much have quit fishing so that my family still sees me.  During archery I usually get out 25 days or so. During rifle deer usually 6 days. Flintlock maybe 5 days. Spring turkey usually 8-9 days. A few here and there for small game, predators and fall turkey.
post edited by dpms - 2012/03/05 16:12:24
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TastyTrout
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/05 16:58:17
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ORIGINAL: S-10
How many days a year do you guys get out hunting and are you for or against Sunday hunting?
It's all a matter of priorties. I am now retired but for 36 years I averaged right around a 48 hour work week plus the normal honey do list. I did shift work for much of that time and bid on jobs to get a shift that allowed me the most hunting time, I traded shifts when necessary, saved 90% of my vacation for hunting season, turned down at least 3 promotions because they were 8 to 5 jobs, turned down another because it meant moving to a city rather than living in the country and worked Sundays rather than Saturdays when I could.
When my seniority gave me daylight hours I traded shifts with the night guy which made him vey happy. When I went into management I got even more creative. If you want to do something bad enough you find a way. If it's just one of many things you want to do then that is a life choice.
I hunted a lot and there was a lot more game to be had. Enjoyment is a matter of seeing game when you can get out, not having to spend a lot more time out just to see game.
S-10...it seems that your situation really worked out so that you could hunt and still work a full-time job. That can't be the same for every situation though. My Bachelors Degree is in Marketing and my Masters Degree is in Business Administration. That means I'm stuck in a office from 8-7 or 7:30 daily. I even have to work the occasional Saturday. With my credentials pretty much whatever job I'd be looking for would be in an office and that's my reality. It doesn't mean I want to hunt or fish less (hence me being on this board all day long ). It just means that the amount of time I get to spend in the outdoors is less, and Sunday hunting would double the amount of chances I have to get out in the woods. I do save just about all of my vacation for hunting seasons and don't go on any summer trips to the beach. I'll take a vacation to the cold beautiful mountains over a sandy beach any day!
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths. Jimmy D Moore
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/05 18:24:38
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Sunday hunting is already legal in Pa, just for certain species. And just how do you think that happened ???? I have no doubt that if the PGC decided that we needed to kill more gray squirrels and they asked the legislature to pass (allow) Sunday hunting for them it could be done... that's how we got the species added to Sundays that we can hunt now on Sundays...
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dpms
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/05 18:34:09
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
And just how do you think that happened ????
I have no doubt that if the PGC decided that we needed to kill more gray squirrels and they asked the legislature to pass (allow) Sunday hunting for them it could be done...
that's how we got the species added to Sundays that we can hunt now on Sundays...
Wouldn't it be a novel idea, Doc, if a game agency's biologists felt that they needed to kill more grey squirrels they could just do it, instead of having to state thier case to politicians that are being pulled from many special interest groups. Some of which are anti hunting groups. Just like it is done in the great majority of the states. What you are suggesting makes about as much sense as the legislature having to ask the PGC to provide a plan to bail out the Port Authority of Pittsburgh. It doesn't make any sense, but becuase of a outdated blue law, that is what we are stuck with. We can go to a bar and get drunk, then spend our life savings gambling on a Sunday, yet we have polticians telling us what we can hunt on the same day.
post edited by dpms - 2012/03/05 18:38:34
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S-10
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/05 18:52:59
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Wouldn't it be a novel idea, Doc, if a game agency's biologists felt that they needed to kill more grey squirrels they could just do it, instead of having to state thier case to politicians that are being pulled from many special interest groups. Some of which are anti hunting groups. Wouldn't the Biologists have to ask Sarah Speed since the PGC gets her input and help on other issues?  For sure they would have to get the Audubons permission since it is their blueprint for Eco-System Management the PGC is following. Probably would have to see if the Botanist's have a problem with it as the squirrel's absence may impact their special interest. I can vote on the politicans, all I can do is complain about the others to the politicans and remind them that I do vote.
post edited by S-10 - 2012/03/05 18:55:50
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Claypool313
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/05 19:27:14
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The reasons Sunday hunting is dead for now can be summed up in two points.
1. The PGC has alienating too many PA hunters over the past 10 years with their deer management plan. From my perspective it seems a much smaller base is willing to support them gaining any more authority.
2. Some people in the world still think they know how you should spend your time better than you do.
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dpms
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/05 19:51:47
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ORIGINAL: S-10
I can vote on the politicans, all I can do is complain about the others to the politicans and remind them that I do vote.
You can but many a politician has made a career out of it. It is guaranteed that BOC members are out after 8 years if you do not like thier approach.
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wayne c
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/05 19:56:39
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ORIGINAL: dpms
ORIGINAL: S-10
I can vote on the politicans, all I can do is complain about the others to the politicans and remind them that I do vote.
You can but many a politician has made a career out of it. It is guaranteed that BOC members are out after 8 years if you do not like thier approach.
Not very re-assuring when the terms are soon to expire, plans begin to replace them with more of the exact same. Unfortunately when they took the enviro-deerplan leap, they knew it would require long term comnitment including having a supportive majority on governors advisory, screening for a majority of supportive PGC board members for many years to come.
post edited by wayne c - 2012/03/05 20:00:35
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DarDys
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/06 07:04:06
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ORIGINAL: dpms
ORIGINAL: S-10
I can vote on the politicans, all I can do is complain about the others to the politicans and remind them that I do vote.
You can but many a politician has made a career out of it. It is guaranteed that BOC members are out after 8 years if you do not like thier approach.
Not necessarily. Check out District IV of the BOC for the PFBC. That person was in for 8 and the the BOC re-upped him for 8 more without going through the process of looking for anyone else. If it can happen with the PFBC it can happen with the PGC.
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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dpms
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/06 07:40:10
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Okay, it is highly likely that there will be new blood in every seat after 8 years. The BOC of the PGC just lost two. Each with very different perspectives on most issues.
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S-10
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/06 08:29:33
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1. The governor picks the BOC member from a list summitted by the various special interests.
2. The State Senate has to confirm the governor's pick.
3. The politicans also have to approve any license increase and certain purchases the PGC makes.
4. The PGC is audited by the politicans to determine if they are following their Master Plan.
5. The politicans make the rules that tell the PGC what to do and gives them the authority to do it.
6. Ergo--The politicans are the ones who control what goes on with the PGC. The anti-hunters know it, the timber industry knows it, the Audubon knows it, everyone seems to acknowledge that fact and direct their energy towards influencing the politicans except the hunters. We foolishly continue to see the PGC as a independent organization.
7. The voters control who the politicans are. Keep track of their views and VOTE.
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dpms
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/06 08:52:52
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S-10,
"5. The politicans make the rules that tell the PGC what to do and gives them the authority to do it."
If you feel that the politicians make the rules and tell the PGC what to do, do you favor even having a game agency and, if so, why?
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S-10
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/06 11:13:33
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Most companies have a Board Of Directors and a top management that sets the direction they want the company to go and general goals that are to be met. They also have influence in who is put in the management positions to see the direction is being followed. The PGC is no different. Top management and the BOD does not handle the day to day activities or make every decision in how the company operates to meet those goals. The PGC is no different. Someone has to run the shop. Gary Alt didn't invent Herd Reduction, He was hired to Sell Herd Reduction. I don't feel the politicans make the rules, It is a well documented fact.
The politicans were the ones that created the PGC in the first place. They are the ones who we need to be talking to if we don't like what the BOC is doing because the politicans are the ones that hire the BOC and will be hiring the next two members in the near future.
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dpms
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/06 11:58:50
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ORIGINAL: S-10
I don't feel the politicans make the rules, It is a well documented fact.
Maybe I am missing the context of what you are saying but you said in your previous post that "The politicans make the rules that tell the PGC what to do and gives them the authority to do it." In the context of the Sunday hunting discussion, which is what this particular discussion is about, you feel that legislature should continue to regulate hunting on Sundays. If that is the case, and the politicians control everything anyway, acording to you, why should they not just regulate hunting on Mon-Sat as well? I guess that is what I am not understanding were you are coming from.
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S-10
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/06 12:21:15
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In the context of the Sunday hunting discussion, which is what this particular discussion is about, you feel that legislature should continue to regulate hunting on Sundays. If that is the case, and the politicians control everything anyway, acording to you, why should they not just regulate hunting on Mon-Sat as well? They do regulate Mon-Sat through the "Game And Wildlife Code" Title 34 which was enacted by the General Assembly and can be revised by the same body. When it appeared that the publics desire was for Sunday hunting they were willing to consider removing it from the so called Blue Laws and adding that provision to the Wildlife Code allowing the PGC to decide how to best make it happen. When they realized there was not the support for it they previously thought they had no reason to go any further and risk losing voters.
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dpms
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/06 12:41:46
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ORIGINAL: S-10
They do regulate Mon-Sat through the "Game And Wildlife Code" Title 34 which was enacted by the General Assembly and can be revised by the same body. Let me re-word since you are not answering my question. You have stated that you prefer the legislature to regulate hunting on Sundays versus tasking the PGC with it under Title 34. Are you comfortable with the PGC regulating hunting Mon-Sat under Title 34 or should the legislature assume that responsibility as well, since they control everything anyway, according to you.
post edited by dpms - 2012/03/06 12:50:57
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S-10
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/06 13:09:09
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Let me re-word since you are not answering my question I am answering your question, just not in the way you are trying to get me to. It's all about SUNDAY HUNTING, not control. If the BOC wants to do something other than what the General Assembly allows them to do in Title 34 they go to them and ask for a addition or revision to the Code. The BOC never asked the politicans for the ability to regulate Sundays "UNTIL" they decided they wanted to allow Sunday Hunting. The politicans would have given them that ability "IF" there had been sufficient public and hunter support for it because "WE" are the ones who allow them to stay in office. It has nothing to do with being comfortable with the politicans regulating "ANY" one aspect of hunting. They currently regulate "ALL" aspects of hunting through the "Game And Wildlife Code." The day to day tasks, enforcement of the code and decisions that can be made within the parameters of the Code are the responsibilty of the PGC.
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dpms
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/06 13:13:29
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I enjoyed the dance. I think we are back to we will have to agree to disagree.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/06 13:20:16
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We can go to a bar and get drunk, then spend our life savings gambling on a Sunday, yet we have polticians telling us what we can hunt on the same day. #1 If you want to hunt on Sundays you can.. there are severals spieces available currently.. besides that ... you getting drunk at a bar or gamblings your savings away does not effect anyone but YOU and the bar owner casino owner getting rich off your money... for the most part it does not effect the general public or in specific property owners.. You drinking or gambling has absolutely no effect on me or other property owners however allowing hunters to be on the gamelands next door one more day a week does.. I have to be aware of the possibility of stray bullets, trespassing, etc ,etc... I feel the #1 reason folks do not understand those opposing Sunday hunting do not want that extra day is because they do not live in or on an area that would be directly effected by such a change... FOR EXAMPLE how many times a year do you have to worry about someone trespassing on your land claiming they are hunting where you live.. how about hunters in general, how many do see you from your property where you live during "hunting seasons" Can't you see (for one m inute)where a property owner would enjoy that one day a week that they do not have to work and can be at home with their family, maybe even having a picinic or BBQ outside and not have to worry about hunters, trespassers, or hunting ??? apples and oranges comparing other Sunday lawful acts and hunting ... most Sunday legal activities are not dealing with something that effects at a person while he/she is at home on his own property enjoying a day away from work duties....
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bingsbaits
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/06 13:27:01
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You don't seem to have a problem doing it the other 6 days of the week without over due hardship and not a complaint.
If they do not want folks hunting on their land on Sunday then post it as such.
If you are talking about deer season. I don't see alot of outdoor picinics in December..
"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
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S-10
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/06 13:27:23
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I enjoyed the dance. I think we are back to we will have to agree to disagree I agree , it did while away a good part of the day. 
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TastyTrout
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/06 13:29:27
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Dr. Trout...I think I'm beginning to see why there's never going to be a resolution to this whole hunting on Sunday thing. I see the point your're making just fine. And with what seems to be your situation it fits. I'm also willing to bet that there are other landovers who wish they ahd the ability to enjoy an activity on Sunday like hunting with their family if they work during the week. Both scenario's are good arguements for their respective side.
So let me ask those of you who need a day without hunting....if it's just that 1 day a week that you need with your family would you be opposed to no hunting on another day (i.e. Monday) and allow hunting on Sundays? Being that in my opinion many of the people arguing for Sunday hutning don't get to hunt during the week, I think the overall majority would be fine with a day of no hunting throughout the work week (satisfying that 1 day with hunting) and giving others an extra day to hunt?
It's completely hypothetical and I'm not saying I'm lobbying for no hunting on Mondays....I'm just asking.
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths. Jimmy D Moore
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/06 13:54:28
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The difference for BOTH sides is that for the most part, SUNDAYS are a NON-work day... I can see why MANY folks who work 5-6 days a week and do not have many days to hunt would want an extra non-work day... heck I was that person for nearly 45 years of my life.. Saturdays were my only day for hunting and living in the city most of the time I did not even get to travel to "camp" to hunt that one day... I truly feel for those folks, especially in today's reduced game numbers, I can see their desires.. but I have to weigh the effects on others for such a dramatic change.. I have posted and many do not believe that such a change would actually hurt some of those very same folks.. if land currently open to them for hunting 6 days a week suddenly gets changed to NO HUNTING AT ALL... what did those guys who lose the property gain.. NOTHING.. they lost... now they may have an extra day to hunt but have to find some new place to hunt.. believe me more land will be lost to hunting if Sunday hunting becomes the law of the land.. You have to remember this is PA.. just because other states did not lose that much land does not mean it will not happen in Pa... we have far more hunters that would be out there in their woods... In your hypothetical == closing hunting on Monday and opening Sunday .. that would not allow me NO time to spend with the family on our property.. I'll be working on Monday... so now I have no time to be with the family on our property being outside and not worrying about hunters As you said there are the hunters and their desires then there is the property owners and their desires for a time to relax at home on thier rural wooded property...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2012/03/06 14:00:11
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bingsbaits
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/06 14:12:49
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Doc you make it sound like you have to dodge bullets all the time.
In your eyes is hunting really that unsafe ???
Have you ever had to duck bullets the other six days of the week, just curious.
Even if the land gets posted you tell all those that have a problem seeing deer to find a new place to hunt without any hardships involved.
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dpms
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/06 14:16:52
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
I feel the #1 reason folks do not understand those opposing Sunday hunting do not want that extra day is because they do not live in or on an area that would be directly effected by such a change... Doc, I live in the hardest hunted area of the state. The SRA. Can't you see (for one m inute)where a property owner would enjoy that one day a week that they do not have to work and can be at home with their family, maybe even having a picinic or BBQ outside and not have to worry about hunters, trespassers, or hunting ??? Yes, Doc. I can see. Again I live in the most heavily hunted area of the state. If one is really "worried" about trespassers, hunters or hunting, that "worry" would be in existant every day of the week. And that landowner has every right to limit hunting on their property if the worry is too great. One of my best spots in the SRA regularly has "hunters" walking through the landowners garden doing drives and it would remain open to those that ask on Sundays. apples and oranges comparing other Sunday lawful acts and hunting ... most Sunday legal activities are not dealing with something that effects at a person while he/she is at home on his own property enjoying a day away from work duties....
Huh? Gambling and drinking have broken up more families and affected others in negative ways than hunting Mon-Sat ever has. Sunday hunting would no more affect others negatively than drinking and gambling already do in big ways.
post edited by dpms - 2012/03/06 14:42:44
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retired guy
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/06 14:21:59
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Not a PA hunter anymore but do hunt upstate NY kinda regular - Sundays and NO Orange are the rule up there.
Actually kinda think that on weekends there is less pressure on the woodlands from hunters on a particular day that way. When Sat is the ONLY day -it gets crowded.
Reason bein that most are family guys and can only get one day out of a weekend anyhow. What with busy lives and other things tuggin at your time only a few can actually get out both Sat and Sun.
Us retired guys usually just cut the lawn on weekends anyhow but - just kinda noticed.
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dpms
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/06 14:27:57
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
however allowing hunters to be on the gamelands next door one more day a week does.. I have to be aware of the possibility of stray bullets, trespassing, etc ,etc...
The sterotypes do not help the sport of hunting. Especially coming from a hunter. There is absolutely no reason for a non hunter to be fearful of hunting to a greater extant than most of other life's activities. There are plenty of reports documenting it. Instead of perpetuating the myth, edcate those that have concerns about the safety of hunting. Driving to work has far greater risks than walking through the local gamelands on the opener of deer season.
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dpms
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/06 14:37:46
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
I have posted and many do not believe that such a change would actually hurt some of those very same folks.. if land currently open to them for hunting 6 days a week suddenly gets changed to NO HUNTING AT ALL... what did those guys who lose the property gain.. NOTHING.. they lost... now they may have an extra day to hunt but have to find some new place to hunt.. believe me more land will be lost to hunting if Sunday hunting becomes the law of the land..
Maybe some short term loss out of spite. Why else would a landowner close down to all hunting before knowing which season may be affected. If land is closed, and the landowner truly welcomed hunters in the first place, it will re-open in time. No one wants to see land closed for the wrong reasons or closed due to misinformation. It is inevitable that some will close. The positive side of this is that land that remains open will be enjoyed by hunters taking advantage of any new opportunities that may come. Those would be additional time in the field for some. A good thing.
post edited by dpms - 2012/03/06 14:40:54
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Sunday Hunting = DEAD = ??
2012/03/06 14:40:41
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Bullet holes in my home, my two camps I bought adjoining my "home" property... my wife dodging bullets fired at a deer at night while walking the dog... us and our nearby neighbor putting flo orange on our horses or not even allowing them out in the pastures during rifle season.. my neighbor's (farmer)dead cow in rifle season.. another's dead dog... all cause concern... but of course I have mentioned all this many times before... and again I'll say what I have said every time before... I hunt 90% public open ground, not private property... I live in a very huntable rural area 24/7, not in the city.. if I only had my few days "at camp" and was basing all my opinions on what I see then maybe I would share the opinions that there are not ALOT of goons, thugs, un-safe hunters and slobs hunting on public grounds... but I live where I live and it is what it is around here...and know many others living around here that feel the exact same way... hunting is a safe sport for those safety minded and honest folks..... but too many guys only know the sport from traveling to their camps in hunting season and hunting on private or leased lands for those 3-4 days a year have NO IDEA what it is really like on public lands... or those living adjacent to those lands.. Last week our local magistarte had 11 PGC related cases ... 11 for one small community... I am not going to pretend all hunters are just the greatest guys you would ever what to meet... just because 80% are does not mean I am going to pretend the other 20% are NOT what they are... and most of them have already "used up" any benefits to private land and the public land folks are the ones paying the bill for it.. I will continue to state my opposition to Sunday hunting and stating my personal reasons for it, just as others post their personal opinions on why they support it... and as the articles state the hunters themselves are just about evenly divided on the issue... How about the guy a few years ago who pulled into our parking lot... meanwhile he just drove by a large sign stating this was a private lane on private property NO TRESPASSING.. parked got out and was walking towards the game lands.. when confronted he told my wife .. ""that the guy who lives here said I could park here....but could not remember his name" can you believe that one ?????? 
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