dpms
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Top scoring states In order to qualify for the Boone and Crockett record book, a typical white-tailed buck must score at least 160, while minimum score for a non-typical is 185. Top 20 states for Boone and Crockett record book entries for white-tailed bucks, 2005-10 (typical and non-typical combined): 1. Wisconsin, 383 entries (1980-85 rank 3rd, 40 entries) 2. Illinois, 299 entries (1980-85 rank 6th, 30 entries) 3. Iowa, 224 entries (1980-85 rank 2nd, 59 entries) 4. Ohio, 215 entries (1980-85 rank 14th, 16 entries) 5. Missouri, 214 entries (1980-85 rank 9th (tie), 25 entries) 6. Kentucky, 199 entries (1980-85 rank 9th (tie), 25 entries) 7. Indiana, 195 entries (1980-85 rank 16th, 14 entries) 8. Kansas, 181 entries (1980-85 rank 4th, 35 entries) 9. Minnesota, 172 entries (1980-85 rank 1st, 76 entries) 10. Saskatchewan, 147 entries (1980-85 rank 7th (tie), 27 entries) 11. Texas, 132 entries (1980-85 rank 12th, 19 entries) 12. Alberta, 115 entries (1980-85 rank 7th (tie), 27 entries) 13. Nebraska, 78 entries (1980-85 rank 18th (tie), 12 entries) 14. Oklahoma, 48 entries (1980-85 rank 22nd (tie), 7 entries) 15. Ontario, 41 entries (1980-85 rank 42nd (tie), 1 entry) 16. Arkansas, 40 entries (1980-85 rank 34th (tie), 3 entries) 17 (tie). Michigan, 39 entries (1980-85 rank 17th, 13 entries) 17 (tie). Mississippi, 39 entries (1980-85 rank 18th, 12 entries) 19. North Dakota, 31 entries (1980-85 rank 31st (tie), 4 entries) 20. Pennsylvania, 26 entries (1980-85 rank 45th (tie), 0 entries) Big buck lands Pennsylvania counties that produced the 26 Boone and Crockett record book entries, 2005-10: Allegheny – 2 Chester – 2 Dauphin – 2 Elk – 2 Forest – 2 Beaver - 1 Butler – 1 Cambria – 1 Clarion – 1 Jefferson – 1 Lancaster – 1 Lawrence – 1 Lehigh – 1 Lycoming – 1 Montgomery – 1 Northumberland – 1 Schuylkill – 1 Venango – 1 Washington – 1 Westmoreland – 1 York – 1 Growing lists Pope and Young Club record book entries for bucks taken in Pennsylvania with archery equipment (two-year intervals): 2009-10 – 207 2007-08 – 161 2005-06 – 167 2003-04 – 162 2001-02 – 117 1999-2000 - 91 The two major organizations for recording trophy whitetails both report an increase over the last several years – both on the national level and in the number of entries from Pennsylvania.
The Boone and Crockett Club reported a 400 percent increase in trophy whitetail entries over the last 30 years. From 1980-85, 617 whitetails made it into the Boone and Crockett record book.
From 2005-10, that number jumped to 3,090.
To qualify for the Boone and Crockett awards book, a typical whitetail buck must score a minimum of 160.
According to Keith Balfourd, director of marketing for Boone and Crockett, a number of factors are behind the increase, including improved habitat, management programs that allow bucks to live longer and more hunters simply holding out for a trophy deer.
“Bottom line is there is no blanket answer. It is good news however, because the majority of possible reasons are tied back to game management, so clearly we’re doing something right by the deer and the habitats they live in,†Balfourd said.
From 1980-85, Pennsylvania was tied for last among states and Canadian provinces with no entries. For the period 2005-10, Pennsylvania ranked 20th on the list with 26 entries.
Pennsylvania also had more entries than any of its bordering states with the exception of Ohio, which listed 215 entries and placed fourth overall.
Balfourd said the antler restrictions enacted by the Pennsylvania Game Commission that took effect in 2002 had an impact on the number of trophy deer harvested in the state.
PGC spokesman Jerry Feaser agreed that antler restrictions play a role because it enables more bucks to reach older age classes.
“Pennsylvania white-tailed deer always had the genetics, they just needed help getting to that older age and that’s what antler restrictions have afforded,†Feaser said.
The PGC also maintains its own record book. To qualify, a typical buck taken with a rifle must score a minimum of 140, while a buck taken while bowhunting needs to score 115 or better.
Feaser said the agency didn’t see an increase in the number of bucks qualifying for its record book until 2005, three years after antler restrictions took effect.
The increase was particular noticeable with archery bucks, Feaser said, because the minimum score is lower.
Still, he said antler restrictions weren’t directly involved in the increase in record-book bucks.
“It wasn’t intended to produce trophy bucks,†Feaser said. “It just allowed yearling bucks to reach the next age class. The increase in record-book bucks is an unintended but positive byproduct of antler restrictions.â€
The Pope and Young Club, which maintains a records program for big game animals taken with archery equipment (longbows, recurves and compound bows only), has also experienced a steep hike in the number of entries both nationally and from Pennsylvania.
Pope and Young records trophy data in two-year periods, and from 1999-2000, 91 typical Pennsylvania archery bucks made the record book. In 2003-04 – after antler restrictions were implemented, 162 Pennsylvania bucks qualified for the Pope and Young book. The number stayed constant until 2009-10, when it jumped to 207. Pennsylvania ranks 11th overall for contributing bucks to the Pope and Young record book.
Nationally, in 1999-2000, the club recorded 3,875 trophy archery bucks, compared to 5,084 from 2009-10.
Kevin Hisey, executive secretary for the Pope and Young Club, said antler restrictions are only one reason for the hike.
The other has to do with hunters themselves, he said.
“It’s pretty clear that over time hunters have become a lot more selective in their hunting, which we support,†Hisey said. “You also have other variables involved, such as the increased exposure of the records program, the increase in the popularity of archery and improved management practices in some states.
“There definitely has been an increase in the number of record book books nationwide, but it’s not as dramatic as what we’ve seen from Pennsylvania in the last 10 years.â€
Read more: http://www.timesleader.com/sports/It_rsquo_s_better_than_ever_02-12-2012.html#ixzz1mDP6NGG6
My rifle is a black rifle
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/12 19:23:11
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Some of us said this was going to happen... we kept telling S-10 just wait and his "infamous record book" showing ARs was not working would fall apart... 26 in just the past 5 years... from 91 to over 200 for pope and young in 10 years ... yeah ======= the bucks are not getting bigger.. RIGHT !!!! 
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2012/02/12 19:27:42
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rmcmillen09
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/12 19:35:32
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Is there only 1 entry for 1-B out of all of the others ?
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S-10
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/12 19:44:25
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I wonder who decided to compare 1980-1985 to 2005-2010 For B&C instead of a honest comparison of 1995-2000 to 2005-2010. You don't suppose it is because it doesn't look the same.  We are killing more P&Y bucks in small part because of AR, in part because of the increased interest in buying or leasing land and posting and managing it yourself, and in part because of the greater interest in archey and now crossbow archers shooting them before the rifle hunters do. What in the past wouldn't make archery records because it didn't get killed in archery season and wasn't big enough to make book as a rifle kill now has become a archery kill. An example of the leased land is the Brookville buck that as known about but was living on leased posted ground. One other thing is it doesn't say is if those were from the measuring sessions of the years stated as they are usually given in the national records or the actual year of harvest. Always nice to see big bucks if you can see them often enough.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/12 20:21:35
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In the past your claims were that the "record books" showed ARs were NOT working.. Now you are agreeing "in part" that ARs are helping put bucks in the book ... welcome aboard !!!  So I guess you're saying that if the bow hunters did not kill them they would disapper so that the rifle hunters would not either... ?? I'm saying there are more of them out there now and it really does not matter which weapon they are killed with... more and more will be going in the book from our state now that we have Ars in place... I suspect most of all the record books bucks are and have always come from some sort of private, posted or leased ground.. not public land open to all for deer hunting..
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2012/02/12 20:22:50
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/12 20:25:35
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Is there only 1 entry for 1-B out of all of the others ?
I doubt the record books will ever list WMUs, it probably will always be by county for each individual buck .. but who knows ???
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S-10
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/12 20:32:35
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So I guess you're saying that if the bow hunters did not kill them they would disapper so that the rifle hunters would not either... ?? Are you really that dense or just pretending to be? 1. The score for making the archery records is lower than the score for making the rifle records. 2. The archery harvest used to be 15% or so of the total harvest 3. The archery harvest is now over 30% of the total harvest. 4. Bucks that used to escape archery at 125+or- got shot in rifle and wouldn't show up in either book. 5. Now they are getting shot in archery season and do show up in the ARCHERY book. 6. With crossbows in the mix there will be more of it happening. 7. Clear Enough
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S-10
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/12 20:41:40
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Now you are agreeing "in part" that ARs are helping put bucks in the book ... welcome aboard !!! Yes I am----Because of AR's many more people decided to purchase or lease their own land, plant crops for deer, post it so THEY could control the harvest, and raise as many and as big of deer that they could afford. So IN PART AR is responsible for helping put bucks in the book. I'am not sure it is something for the PGC to brag about though. Actually, 3 sections newly posted, friends or relatives have are near you. One close to the Brookville buck. We do agree on most of them coming off private ground. One of my best spots is adjacent to a large private piece that they drive a lot and I get the overflow.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/12 20:57:59
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Are you really that dense or just pretending to be?
I did not see anything in the post about the size of the 26 bucks so do not know if they would qualify for rifle harvests.. where did you see that ??? Leasing property to hunt on is something that has happened in the modern days of hunting.. it was unheard of 20 years ago, IMHO has nothing to do with antler size... I believe Texas started that trend... and other states are now doing it... and I will continue to say that most ground is posted today because of slob hunters and trespassers not to "raise " a person's own deer to harvest for the record books.... private property owners have always had that advantage of less hunter pressure...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2012/02/12 20:59:58
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S-10
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/12 21:07:53
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I did not see anything in the post about the size of the 26 bucks so do not know if they would qualify for rifle harvests.. where did you see that ??? You have to slow down and read the articles/reports more carefully. It will save us both a lot of misunderstanding and fighting and perhaps keep us on this site a bit longer. At the top it states the 26 are B/C both typical and non-typical bucks as opposed to P&Y. The reason I question who did the comparison of 1980-85 is that from 1995-2000 I have a old record sheet and I count at least 17 meeting that same criteria in Pa. and I assume there are more than that.
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S-10
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/12 21:12:39
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IMHO has nothing to do with antler size... I should try to take you to a several hundred acre piece down your way they started doing that on before AR/HR and let you talk to the owner who has the money to do it right. It does make a difference.
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bingsbaits
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/12 21:26:26
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Leasing property to hunt on is something that has happened in the modern days of hunting.. it was unheard of 20 years ago, IMHO has nothing to do with antler size... I believe Texas started that trend... and other states are now doing it... and I will continue to say that most ground is posted today because of slob hunters and trespassers not to "raise " a person's own deer to harvest for the record books.... Must be way more slobs in your area Doc. Posters going up around here are almost all leases or people closing the land to manage their own deer. Just lost another archery jellyhole to a lease.  How can you say it doesn't make a difference in antler size ??? I'll bet 80% of all those new book bucks were either killed on posted ground or were killed coming off of it. I have a 15 point on the wall that came from just that. They managed their farm(800 acres) for larger horns, they had them there, till they got greedy and tried to drive the farm next to theirs and pushed right to me.
"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/12 21:27:01
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I know it makes a difference .. I belong to QDMA after all My point was that public mand will alwasy have less "record book bucks".. guys who hunt that land are mostly about killing a deer and are happy with any buck... so less get to reach maturity of 2.5 or better.. Leasing I still say was not a common practice 15-20 years ago and as I posted private property owners and folks that hunt it have always had an advantage over the public land hunters... so sure planting food plots , better habitat, and ARs will continue to add more and more bucks to the record books... I have been saying that for over 10 years... it will get better and better.. you are the one that was posting the "books" showed ARs were not working ... and that more bucks were entered before ARs were put in place and did not want to wait to see results several years after ARS were in place to see results.. that is what is happeneing now... and will continue into the future "more bigger bucks" in Pa.............just as promised do you really want me to go find some of those posts and quote them here ???
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/12 21:31:32
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How can you say it doesn't make a difference in antler size ???
what I said was leasing does not make a difference.. I did not say private property does not make a difference... If you would have read the reply, instead of being in a hurry to "jump" you would have seen I clearly stated private property does make a difference and thus an advantage.. private property owners have always had that advantage of less hunter pressure...
and as I posted private property owners and folks that hunt it have always had an advantage over the public land hunters...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2012/02/12 21:36:55
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S-10
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/12 21:40:50
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do you really want me to go find some of those posts and quote them here ??? I "sure do" want you to go back even 4-5 years and show where it was YOU and NOT ME that was saying we would be getting bigger bucks as a result of the folks posting their land and managing it themselves. That fact is not something the PGC should be proud of. Heck they even state in the article that the record bucks were not their doing nor their intent. Past my bedtime, gnite
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/12 22:12:55
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where it was YOU and NOT ME that was saying we would be getting bigger bucks as a result of the folks posting their land and managing it themselves. I NEVER SAID ANYTHING LIKE THAT.... #1... I have always said ARs would provide more bigger bucks...just like we were "promised" #2... I never believed that many folks were posting their land to get bigger bucks.. or to even "save" some deer for themselves... never beleived it then and still don't belive that is the reason for the posting or the leasing we see today... so I would NEVER have posted such BS...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2012/02/12 22:39:36
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DarDys
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/13 09:30:21
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If I am reading this correctly, and I might not be, there were 26 bucks entered in the PA record books in the last five years or an average just over 5 per year. If the number of deer hunters in PA is 750,000 (go ahead and argue the actual number, it really doesn't matter much) that means that on average one out of 150,000 hunters was able to bag a record book buck. The odds of winning the Daily Number are 1 in 1,000. The odds of winning the Big Four is 1 in 10,000. So those look pretty easily done in comparison.
Further, the number of harvested bucks has dropped significantly, I won't bother to go back to look it up (I am sure that those who have those numbers at their finger tips will be able to post them post haste), but I seem to recall by about an average of 50,000 per year, post AR. Do you think that any, any of those that were among the hunters that used to haverst one of those 50,000 bucks, but now do not, really give a rat's patut about the five guys that that got a record book buck? Does anyone really think that the view of 1 additonal record book entry per 10,000 hunters not harvesting a buck of any type is worth the AR climb?
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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World Famous
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/13 09:45:58
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But the average hunter now get a buck every 7 years or so.40 years of hunting gets you 5 bucks, but they are "bigger".Now instead of a buck with an 11inch spread, we now get one with a 14inch spread....WF
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S-10
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/13 11:25:27
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Taking the archery and rifle kills from 1995 through 2000 that meet the criteria of 160 for typ and 185 for non-typ from the POSTED PGC record bucks I count 23 that made the numbers (including 10 From 2000) You know--the year BEFORE all this started. No wonder the writer used data from the 1980's for comparison. 23 vs 26 changes things just a wee bit from 0 vs 26.
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RSB
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/13 20:05:38
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I just tallied both the archery and combined archery/gun kills over the 160 inches required for P&Y up to what I have to the end of 2007. My totals also include the non-typical bucks even though they would need to be 180 inches to make the P&Y records. I am also sure there have been other additions to the later years that I don’t yet have included in my spread sheets.
Period________________archery_______________archery and gun conbined
1980-1984_______________0_________________________10
1985-1989_______________5_________________________25
1990-1994_______________3_________________________19
1995-1999_______________7_________________________25
2000____________________5_________________________16
2001____________________1_________________________3
2002____________________1_________________________3
2003____________________3_________________________4
2004____________________4_________________________9
2005____________________5_________________________7
2006____________________1_________________________7
2007____________________2_________________________3
It should also be recognized that it typically takes about five to ten years before the majority of the bucks end up being brought in for scoring. For that reason the more recent years are without a doubt going to have even more bucks included following future measuring sessions.
R.S. Bodenhorn
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rmcmillen09
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/14 20:11:48
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might have to try my luck at powerball considering those odds
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CrossForkWookie
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/15 13:12:58
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ORIGINAL: S-10
Now you are agreeing "in part" that ARs are helping put bucks in the book ... welcome aboard !!!
Yes I am----Because of AR's many more people decided to purchase or lease their own land, plant crops for deer, post it so THEY could control the harvest, and raise as many and as big of deer that they could afford. So IN PART AR is responsible for helping put bucks in the book. I'am not sure it is something for the PGC to brag about though. Actually, 3 sections newly posted, friends or relatives have are near you. One close to the Brookville buck.
We do agree on most of them coming off private ground. One of my best spots is adjacent to a large private piece that they drive a lot and I get the overflow.
With or without AR the trend has been toward more and more posted property over the last two decades. I don't think that's happening because of it. .
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CrossForkWookie
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/15 13:19:19
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And if I may also add, landowners are posting and leasing as a way of keeping thier land in their families........it pays the taxes. Times are tough and you gotta do what you gotta do. Even those people (and we all know someone like this dont' we) who said they'd always let people hunt on their land......once they start seeing their neighbors and relatives leasing for hunting purposes and getting an income stream to pay taxes, etc they end up joining the trend. Most rural people aren't independently wealthy and just trying to scratch out a living so I dont blame them one bit.
I bet if you did some sort of study on the percentage of land that was posted in the last ten years, far more of it gets posted and leased for hunting purposes than posted and kept solely for the use of the landowner.
.
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S-10
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/15 13:30:32
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I can take you to five different places less than 8 minutes from my house that are leased and posted since AR/HR for that exact reason. I was in one of them for a short while and invited to join two others. Someone just leased and posted a sixth spot within walkling distance of me just before last rifle season. The three I refered to near Brookville are friends or relatives and all are as a result of AR/HR. The same folks have two more places they started posting and planting about 7 years ago. Our last post crossed paths----BTW several of these leases are timber companies that leased their land. I agree on the farmer playing follow the leader in some cases.
post edited by S-10 - 2012/02/15 13:36:05
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retired guy
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/15 13:57:24
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10-
Timber companies in the far Northeast began taking another route a number of years ago
They own vast areas of forrest they manage for timber and began selling off huge plots and maintaning the timber rights. No taxes- no insurance- no liability issues and they get to keep the timber for all time- for them nothing changed but the negative side of the property ownership and they picked up a bonus cash flow as well.
Hunters and fishermen who had been allowed to use the Timber lands like their own for generations were suddenly faced with locked gates and huge posted properties. Some blocks were in the thousands of acres. The landowners who, by virtue of the size of the plots, were generally absentee very wealthy folks who lived in far off places. Contacting them for permission - if even given-was a difficult if not out of the question effort.
Times-- they are a changin for us . All over too.
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S-10
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/15 14:23:11
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There have always been a few timber company leases around here but for the most part it was city folks leasing them and using them a few days a year and many lease offers never had any takers. Most locals just ignored them and did their own thing. We had the "why buy the cow" attitude. Since about 2003 even the local guys realized you were going to have to control your own land and plant something to keep the deer on it to have the type deer hunting we were used to. I know several guys whos homes border timber lands that just leased them lately because they always hunted there and wanted to continue to do so rather than a bunch of strangers picking it up and shutting them out. They do make for better buck hunting because they shut 90% of the former hunters out.
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retired guy
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/15 15:45:19
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10
We were by the truck one dayin Northern Maine keepin the boxed Bear dogs quiet while a starter was out pickin kinda cold. One of the local guys started talkin bout the Timber property sales.
As I recall it was about some NY City folks who had bought, posted and gated a 4,000 piece and would not allow hunting on it as they were self styled 'conservationists' and didnt want any animals killed.
The wife had told the guy how they were gonna build some kinda huge house for the Summers overlooking a nice Brookie stream he used to fish with a big deck overlooking some of the property.
Native guys all had a good laugh about how those 'city folks would spend all their deck time swatting steada looking cause they clearly hadnt heard bout the Main Summertime black flies and gnats.
One of the guys iced it when he replied that he drove timber trucks and the place where the house was goin was scheduled to be cut a coupla years out.
Hunters dont stand a chance in that kinda environment.
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CrossForkWookie
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/15 15:53:14
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ORIGINAL: S-10
I can take you to five different places less than 8 minutes from my house that are leased and posted since AR/HR for that exact reason. I was in one of them for a short while and invited to join two others. Someone just leased and posted a sixth spot within walkling distance of me just before last rifle season. The three I refered to near Brookville are friends or relatives and all are as a result of AR/HR. The same folks have two more places they started posting and planting about 7 years ago.
Our last post crossed paths----BTW several of these leases are timber companies that leased their land. I agree on the farmer playing follow the leader in some cases.
Your previous post to the one I just quoted said just "AR" in this one you say AR and HR. I view both as different. Guys can agree with AR wanting to try to let more bucks walk but HR can be against it.
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retired guy
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/15 17:15:54
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As I sit here reading this stuff a woman walked into the field across the street wearing full hunter orange- dog too- walkin her dog. Wears that stuff so HUNTERS dont shoot her or the doggie.
The stuff these Urbies believe bout us is outa control along with the real fear they have of us bloodthirsty. noise shootin. gun lovin. wackadoos.
She goes up each day bout this time- dont have the heart to tell her the seasons round here ended Dec 31.
Add that mentality to the thoughts bout the loss of hunting grounds.
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RSB
Expert Angler
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RE: Article on recent Pa. record entries
2012/02/15 19:31:09
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We have some posted property in my district that big money people from out of the area bought and posted for their own hunting but pretty much all of the leased hunting rights are as CrossForkWookie said. I can not think of even one lease where it was anything other than the landowner leasing the hunting rights to cover the taxes on the land. For some of them that was the only way they could continue to keep the land since farming no longer pays the bills and timber prices are so low you might not even be able to sell what timber you might have and get enough to pay them for more than a few years. I do not like the leasing but it is here and probably to stay. With so many landowners feeling the major financial pinch of today, leasing is perhaps the only option that allows them to continue ownership of their property. R.S. Bodenhorn
post edited by RSB - 2012/02/15 19:32:35
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