ORIGINAL: wayne c

"Even if Block scored fewer B&C bucks during the year that doesn’t really mean anything other than he as just one person scored fewer. The fact is other people score B&C bucks as well and they must have had an increase in the number they scored since the number of B&C bucks coming from Penna. has been on the increase during recent years."

What is shows is a likely decline in entries in an area that has historically been one of the better areas of the state for trophy production. And now the herd reductions are clearly limiting it.

"From what I am hearing Penna. went from being number fourteen to number nine in the P&Y record book during the past ten years and is now putting more bucks in the record book than Kansas and Kentucky."

Yeah. And I saw who it was that posted that claim also. Someone with zero credibility. Not saying whether its true or not, I havent checked out that claim, but it sounds like you havent either. But I wouldnt put a whole lot of stock in it, just because you saw it posted on the internet by an environmentalist that is known for always posting all kinds of inaccuracies.

As for WHY the decline in southwest region its abundantly clear, the deer herd being slashed in half played the number one role. Pretty much common sense, no mystery there. Many less deer = Many less deer. Including "big bucks".

I also dont buy the ridiculous claim less guys are getting them measured. Especially when so few folks take ANY buck, let alone book qualifiers. Hardly as if they are a dime a dozen... For the record, I dont bother getting racks measured, unless it would be an extreme monster, Id THINK about it.. And that hasnt changed Ive felt the same 30 years ago as I do today.

 
There are many things that cause a decline in big bucks. Habitat degradation is one of the leaders though. All you have to do is look at the history of record book entries for the big woods counties back in the thirties and forties and compare that to when the habitat shifted from seedling/sapling to pole stage timber.
 
The fact that 2A is also one of the few areas of the state that came up with declining habitat in the more recent evaluations also suggests declining habitat might be at least wart of the reason for fewer record book entries from that area in recent years.
 
As for the reported increase in Boone and Crockett entries from Pennsylvania O am not basing my comments on only what someone posted on the other site. I too read the report probably close to a year ago. I just don’t know where to find a link to the article or report now so I can’t provide a link or any direct quotes. But, my memory is still good enough to remember the fact that Pennsylvania has made significant improvement in buck entries during the more recent years.
 
The increase is also evident in the Penna. Record Book entries. I am going to post the five-year increment results from the record book entries since 1980 so everyone can see how things are improving. This data only includes bucks over 140 in all harvest categories since anything smaller then that from the archery harvests would not make the gun harvest records.
 
Years___________# of entries___________Average inches
80-84____________89___________________148.49
85-89___________160___________________151.14
90-94___________159___________________149.07
95-99___________139___________________151.78
00-04___________167___________________153.75
05-09___________205___________________151.90
 
R.S. Bodenhorn

ORIGINAL: psu_fish

PA is ahead of Kansas and Kentucky?

 
Unless you can post something current to prove that incorrect I believe it will stand that yes Penna. is ahead of both Kansas and Kentucky in B&C entries for recent years. I think they base that on harvests per square mile though if I remember correctly.
 
R.S. Bodenhorn

Some folks apparently disagree that PA ranks ahead of Kansas.


In February 2011, Field and Stream the publication announced Kansas is the #1 State in America to pursue a Boone and Crockett Buck and the #1 State that is adding Boone and Crockett Whitetail Entries. Such is true at IMB. In 2010 IMB’s largest 4 bucks killed came from Kansas. IMB Outfitters is also located in South Eastern, Kansas in Unit 11 for whitetail deer. This is the best Unit for Kansas deer hunts. It is here we possess over 10,000 acres of prime whitetail habitat that we huntedt for the first time in 2010. We have searched for over 10 years for premium whitetail ground refusing to run hunts in Kansas unless we picked up ground that truly holds monster bucks and plenty of them. The State of Kansas is re-writing the Boone and Crockett Record Books each year. The State of Kansas has changed the procedure for the purchase of non resident tags. A new lottery system adopted in 2008 has been developed and it is very easy to get a tag with the draw beginning in April. IMB will assist you in getting your tag. In Unit 11, last year 744 tags were left over, thus this area will make it easy for you to obtain a Kansas deer hunting tag. The new lottery process allows the majority of hunters who wish to hunt Kansas to draw a tag. Kansas ranks as the #4, State in the Nation according to the Pope and Young Record Books for number of entries. 6 of the top 10 Non Typical entries, recorded in the Pope and Young Record Books belong to the State of Kansas . Those entries net scored as follows: 264 1/8, 257, 249 6/8, 246 3/8, 250 6/8 and 245 4/8. Kansas is the greatest location to harvest a true Non Typical Boone and Crockett Buck.

"The fact that 2A is also one of the few areas of the state that came up with declining habitat in the more recent evaluations also suggests declining habitat might be at least wart of the reason for fewer record book entries from that area in recent years."

Few problems with that absurd assessment put together by the pgc enviros... 1st... Thats based on TWENTY ONE ridiculous plots that are supposed to account for nearly 2000 square miles. lmao, thats so absurd its insane....

...2nd, even when there were double the deer, and immediately after, the habitat never ranked as poor until the assessment process was tweaked to make it so in order to Penalize areas where deer densities werent dirt poor requiring higher stem counts. Also even the extreme folks at audubon ranked this area as among the best in the state for regen. and shrub layer etc arond the time of our peak deer populations. When pgcs assessment goes above and beyond that of even those green extreme types, then you know how far out in left field the assessment is. See the audubon report for details friend.

Most units stayed the same or declined despite the unwarranted slaughter.... Also, why dont you tell the fine folks how many units were rated as "GOOD" prior to our ten plus long years of reduction....and how many are now after them? Dont be shy....spit it out.....that = complete and total failure pretty much across the board.

Also, much of the area spoken of from Wash county in the article was 2B also, one would imagine.

I am going to post the five-year increment results from the record book entries since 1980 so everyone can see how things are improving. This data only includes bucks over 140 in all harvest categories since anything smaller then that from the archery harvests would not make the gun harvest records.

You show numbers but give them your own spin as to what they mean. To start you added the year 2000 into the post AR numbers even though it was the year BEFORE AR and also the year with the MOST bucks taken over 140 by nearly a 2 to one margin over any year since. Then, while you claim your showing things are improving you post data that shows that after over a decade of herd reduction and antler restriction there has been NO improvement in antler mass comparing the five years BEFORE AR/HR to the latest five years. The Audubon and greens might be impressed with 85,000 fewer bucks in exchange for a few additional 140's a year but most hunters won't be especially knowing that many were taken off posted ground that is being managed just the opposite as the PGC is doing.

Pretty much, R.G. I have not hunted public ground for 2 or 3 years and see plenty of deer.My areas are all highly posted with VERY limited access. All my old hunting friends see very little in 2-C area open to public and, yes, they go deep into the woods....WF

The deer are where they are being fed well in my area. Half way through gun season they start to move as these hunters have there tags filled and quit feeding. Ever notice how deer will stay on a certain property, that has little cover, when they quit feeding they finally come out.We hunt public land all 3 places were logged about 5 to 10 years ago. So there is thickets and then hay fields. I sat on a ridge and glassed bedded deer on private property the last 4 days. The Saturdays we push deer, but this year we didn't the first saturday because we did not want to ruin anyone else hunt. The last Saturday a hunter climbed into his tree hut he got 1 doe the whole 2 weeks. We seen a good buck feed in the woods behind..and a little below his stand. The last morning we waited till 9am. We drove 5 bucks and 17 doe off 1 thicket that guys hunted from ladder stands and 2 box blinds the whole season. The largest buck was in briars below a box stand a guy shot a small 7 out of the first morning.That buck wouldn't budge the driver already had his buck and he could not get it to get up. I believe with all these stands that hunters are using and posted properties that nobody walks though, the deer stay bedded.

It snowed last night at 1am i was near gamelands 223, all around that gamelands there were tracks coming in and out everywhere. I opened the car door and hit them with the light just to make sure. The problem in some areas is the deer are being fed to well just like the eastern  SRAs, they eat at night and bed all day, i think the feeding stopped due to that reason.

Remember we do not have the deer of 10 years ago, but we do not have the hunters either. Today when you see orange there is usually off limit land between the other hunter where deer can hide out. The boys pushed out 2 other farms we hunt every last Saturday, they totaled near 40 pushed deer by 12pm. As far as holding records, both of the big bucks in my area supposedly killed in the early archery season the last few years were killed by hunters who hunt Ohio also in the same time frame. We are going to have some big bucks because of today's hunters can plant food and hold the deer on their properties and let them grow too enormous sizes. Wasn't that Amish buck a few years ago watched from a barn roof top for a few years?

The rules have changed and I myself agree with you retired guy. PA. fair chase hunting is gone. It is who ever has the best food have the best number of deer. Food Plots are legal they create habitat due to the lack of farming.
BUT imagine how far a good buck will travel with 6 to 10 does in heat feeding in the middle of one of those plots. The best bet is to get permission on good private land that has neighboring posted properties. Remember to ask if they feed...lol..you have to ask. Even if they do there not going to tell you we both know that. But ask to be safe, you can't walk land that is posted for trespassing.

These properties do save some deer as many hunters cannot get to them, that is why i think we see the PGC selling so many doe tags .they know in some areas they cannot be shot off, so why not make some money.

Pa. has produced many book bucks the last few years with these type properties, in time we may be close to OH.
Since we are sorta farming these trophy deer as i stated. But its all legal and the deer qualify for the book.