Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder

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BIGSLICK
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2011/12/05 18:13:12 (permalink)

Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder

Dug this out of the front left shoulder of a 14pt last Saturday when it came in for a cape and processing. Was stuck dead square in the shoulder. Did not penetrate through the bone at all. 2-3" deeper and he would have not gone far. The tip of the rage was rolled over and bent at a 45 degree angle. Looks like it was deployed though. The buck was probably a 3.5yr old with good mass and spread. When we weighed him, he was only 114lbs probably due to the injury. I have shot plenty of deer with the rage 2-blade and never had a problem, in fact, I swear by them. Have never hit a shoulder though? This has got me wondering? Not the best placement, but some penetration would have been nice? Of course I don't know what poundage bow or how far away the shot was taken but?




#1

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    anzomcik
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/05 19:03:32 (permalink)
    Wow, Alot of crazy things can happen when the arrow hits bone. Makes you wonder what the tip would have looked like if it were made of steel? (i am not saying it would do any better, just a thought)

    I guess when you process deer you need to keep that kinda stuff in your mind so you dont get layed open from a foreign object. very neat
    #2
    Big Tuna
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/05 19:19:15 (permalink)
    I shoot the 3 bladed Rage and have never hit the shoulder blade but have hit it with bad to the bone Muzzy's and lost the deer,the shoulder blade is a solid big bone,and I don't know if any broadhead can bust through a solid dead center hit. I've killed 5 deer and one fall gobbler and had let than 40 yard recoveries on all deer with the 3 blade Rage.
    #3
    Big Tuna
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/05 19:21:02 (permalink)
    I shoot the 3 bladed Rage and have never hit the shoulder blade but have hit it with bad to the bone Muzzy's and lost the deer,the shoulder blade is a solid big bone,and I don't know if any broadhead can bust through a solid dead center hit. I've killed 5 deer and one fall gobbler and had let than 40 yard recoveries on all deer with the 3 blade Rage.
    #4
    BIGSLICK
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/05 19:28:01 (permalink)
    Yup BT, i always joke about it, but i have never hit one with a rage that went out of sight. All of them have been <50 yds. I follow the bloodtrails just for chits n giggles and am just amazed. I smacked one in the corner of the shoulder blade years ago with a wasp and got it, but that was the only onr i have ever hit shoulder on. Was slighly quartering to me and just hit the top right of the shoulder blade. Was anough to crack it. Its a lot thinner up there though. If you center punch a shoulder, not sure what broadhead will do the job? I have seen some in my processing years punched in the shoulder and die though, one was a thunderhead and one was a steeltech.



    #5
    retired guy
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/05 22:00:47 (permalink)
       Dont recall ever nailing the heavy shoulder  bone straight on it fullest point however NEVER had those kinda issues with the 125 Tunderhead. That chisel point just keeps going and going and going through every bone I ever hit.
      Yea yea there are newer more modern heads but that Thunderhead NEVER let me down like the head in the photo with its obvious soft curly point and no penetration.
      I'm stickin (sic) with old school.
    #6
    redneck steel
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/05 22:42:32 (permalink)
    The first deer I ever shot was a large 9 point. The shot was 12 yards. I used a nitron broad head made by NAP. The shot hit the deer square in the middle of the shoulder blade. I thought I was gonna have a real tough time finding this deer. But found the broken arrow and realized I got half the arrow in the deer. After a 70 yard track job i found him. Still can't believe the head penetrated as much as it did
    #7
    bulldog1
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/06 11:53:47 (permalink)
    Once on a quartering away shot I had a broadhead follow the shoulder blade up under the front leg of the deer, never penetrated the chest cavity. Didn't push the deer, waited a couple of hours before trying to track it. The deer only went about 80 yards but didn't bleed much, doubt I'd have found it if I had gone right after it. That thing kept cutting with every step. An inch or two in one direction can really screw with a broadheads performance...
    #8
    sugarfuzz12
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/06 14:17:21 (permalink)
    i would never us rages. my buddy shot a big buck that field dressed 212lbs using 3 blade rages that ran around 500 yards. shot was only 25 yards, perfect brodside hit behind the shoulder. very poor blood trail and we probably would not of found the deer if there wasn't snow on the ground. when we got to it we found the broad head lodged in the lung on the side he shot from. if it would of passed through would of been a double lunger and wouldn't have went far at all, but the rage couldn't even make it through one lung.
    #9
    BloodyHand
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/06 16:19:31 (permalink)
    I shot a deer with 100 gr. muzzy dead square in the shoulder bone. The bolt went completely thru and came out of the other shoulder bone. Peeps fail to realize the importance of brand new broadheads when archery hunting.
    #10
    Bull Lifter
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/06 17:51:41 (permalink)
    sugarfuzz just a question....how far was his shot not to punch threw and what kinda poundage was he shooting?

    does anyone ever take that into consideration when choosing a broadhead? I do not shoot rages so im not sticking up for them at all. I'm just curious.
    #11
    Esox_Hunter
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/06 18:02:19 (permalink)
    212# field dressed bucks and broadheads passing through both shoulder bones.  Epic thread
    #12
    Ironhed
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/07 00:55:33 (permalink)
    ^+1

    While I have never shot a 3-blade Rage through a shoulder, I can tell you I have shot a deer(187# dressed) dead smack center-thru the shoulder(where the humerus meets the scapula itself)...with a 2-blade, 100gr. Rage...with an 83# bow...with an ACC 3-71(carbon wrapped aluminum)arrow...at 18 yards...and only got 6" of penetration!
    The tip was bent over a little but not as bad as the one above.  Blades were straight and not bent. The "ball/socket" joint was almost completely cut in half.
     
    IMO, I got that deer because of the bow, not because of the broadhead or the crappy shot placement.  Got one lung.  He threw the arrow only a few yards after the shot. Deer went aprox. 200yards and died in his bed.

    With a little over 20 kills with the 2-blade, I have completely passed through a couple of shoulder BLADES with the above mentioned bow and my lighter, 72# bow.

    I'm not sure if a fixed blade would've changed my situation.  I don't know.

    The easiest fix...stay away from the shoulder!

    Ironhed




    Blacktop Charters
    #13
    retired guy
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/07 10:16:21 (permalink)
         Found that when shooting at close Deer from above the shoulder blade can come into play much more frequently than from shooting Deer from the ground.
      NEVER had any issues whatsoever with the 125 Thunderhead and aluminum shafts passing completley through and exiting lower on the opposite side with such shots.
      Have noticed a trend with technology oriented folks using  faster flatter shooting bows using light carbon arrows and lighter heads. Gotta wonder if there is a tipping point wherein some penetration on certain shots is not up to par with  such lighter flatter shooting . Kinda like a .223 compared to a 06.
       NOT trying to say that the older heavier equipment is better or worse, just that such changes in equipment may facilitate different responses to certain shot placements from differing equipment.
      At some point- methinks- perhaps a sharper lighter quicker cutting head may NOT make up such differences to the point of satisfactory performance on shots one may have readily made with 'old school ' equipment.
        Gotta wonder bout stuff like speed as compared to Foot pounds of energy. Seems like new Tech is all bout speed with little consideration to other factors. May be great for target shooting but leaves other considerations on game.
    -not that much different than considerations we make with rifle projectiles all the time on game species and shot placement.
        Gotta understand this is from a guy who uses single shot guns and  heavy bullets for pass through shots as well has heavy aluminum shafts as well for the same reasons.
         Just my style- dont make it right for everyone. Dont like to tickle my game -like to drop it on the first shot and WAIT for the right shots.
    post edited by retired guy - 2011/12/07 10:33:43
    #14
    SilverKype
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/07 10:32:44 (permalink)
    It's fun shooting 3D's with old and new skool tech. There is such a difference between a carbon shot from a fast bow and an aluminium shot from a clunker. Amazing the peneration and how hard those aluminium hit.

    My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
    #15
    retired guy
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/07 10:45:59 (permalink)
    My youngest kid and I have his discussion all the time. IMHO it is MUCH different hitting game with a variety of internal 'issues' like dense bones as compared to the consistent materials used in targets that are specifically made for arrows to strike. The longer range accuracy speaks for itself however.
    Would fully agree that the flatter faster equipment is GREAT for that nice perfect broadside hits through the thinner mid rib areas. But then the lighter stuff looses its penetration energy much faster than the heavy older projectiles.
      If ya notice, the shots that crop up on the forums from time to time with negative results have been poor placements or shots taken in other areas of the animal at poor angles.
      The point of my statements is that one gotta wonder if the heavier projectiles with more FP would have made a better job of those shots while still doing as good of a job on that nice broadside.
      Fully understand the 'flatter shooting at longer distance ' issue but kinda believe that makes some guys occasionally shoot beyond where they oughta in the first place- perhaps leading to some of the issues at hand.
    .
    post edited by retired guy - 2011/12/07 10:49:59
    #16
    Triple B
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/07 11:02:51 (permalink)
    Speed kills on the highway, not in the woods. I'll take the extra weight & kenetic energy in exchange for the few fps every day. As as been said here, it's those shots that for whatever reason don't turn out picture perfect where it really helps.
    #17
    sugarfuzz12
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/07 12:20:27 (permalink)
    bull it was a 25 yard shot. i think he shoots around 60-65#. with the same set up he has gotten perfect pass through with other broadheads
    #18
    sugarfuzz12
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/07 12:32:46 (permalink)






    #19
    sugarfuzz12
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/07 12:34:22 (permalink)
    those are pictures of the buck i was talking about. cant find any with a close up of where he hit it
    #20
    retired guy
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/07 12:51:56 (permalink)
    Absolutely great buck- congrats to the hunter.
    That said the fact that the shot was close and in the right spot certainly makes a case for the heavier gear theory with more energy.  
      YEA YEA this will create stories of how good the penetration was by others, however,, a perfect shot with poor penetration indicates the lighter faster stuff has its drawbacks.
      Remember there is no idication here whatsoever of any other arrow slowing influences like brush or a forearm slap that coulda had influence on the result.
    Personally after an experience like this one may well wanna go to a heavier arrow with a heavier grain more reliable head as well.
       Yes one gives up the longer range flatter shooting however the result will be much more desirable with the greater hitting energy.
    Just the opinion of one old guy who has shot a deer or two with the bow. Not necessarily the end all but sometimes experience has its merits.
       Hey- when I started it was Bear bows with wood arrows and I have progressed through a lot of changes and have made in the field comparisons. Some have come into the game during the lighter faster  movement and do not have those dead Bear, turkey and Deer comparisons behind them using other methods.
      On the flip side I'd use faster and flatter all day long on Turkey. Then again using some of that lighter faster stuff on a Bear might just cause ya a VERY long day.
    post edited by retired guy - 2011/12/07 13:10:07
    #21
    rooster
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/07 23:22:11 (permalink)
    that buck in that picture was taking by a good friend of mine who is a pro staff shooter in my archery shop.he shot it with a 72 pound bow and a full metal jacket arrow,kinetic energy was not the issue. fuzz heard you shot a 7 this is billy
    #22
    BIGSLICK
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/09 21:14:06 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Ironhed



    The easiest fix...stay away from the shoulder!


    Exactly. All that matters.

    post edited by BIGSLICK - 2011/12/09 21:17:44



    #23
    BIGSLICK
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/09 21:22:04 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Esox_Hunter

    212# field dressed bucks and broadheads passing through both shoulder bones.  Epic thread


    Had a 206lb 8pt come in last week. Massive. Biggest deer (body wise) i have seen in years.



    #24
    retired guy
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/10 00:12:47 (permalink)
       Biggest I ever got weighed in was 188 dressed. Had one  perhaps a bit bigger that wasnt weighed- two things they had in common- -horns to be proud of and meat to be ground cause it aint good for nothin else.
        Congrats on those bruisers guys cause they only come along a coupla times in a lifetime of huntin for most of us.
        Spent two years after the first one and passed all other deer both years in all seasons till harvesting him second to the last day of the last season that year---the second one I stumbled over. Its a crazy game we play.
    post edited by retired guy - 2011/12/10 00:46:28
    #25
    Martin Shooter
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/11 22:25:38 (permalink)
    I've shot a few with the 2 blades.. you can see the bloodtrail from a mile away..
    #26
    BIGHEAD
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/12 04:25:27 (permalink)
    R G I have eaten MANY BIG deer and the meat was FINE,Actually better!! I always hear people saying that about EVERYTHING you can harvest for table fair Deer,fish,Well all wild game. I find it not to be true AT ALL. As a matter in fact I had steaks from a very large doe last night and it was AWESOME. I will say that deer that feed on corn and bean taste better than mountain deer.But still good eating.
    #27
    retired guy
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/12 13:00:21 (permalink)
    Good point Big- my deer are generally woods animals and not anyplace near agriculture- Corn fed  must be OK-geez I gotta look for new ground.
      Dont have a workin farm within miles of me anymore.
    #28
    spoonchucker
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/12 14:57:20 (permalink)
    Feed would probably be the biggest influence on taste. I can imagine deer from the rt 5 ( Rick's Rd. ) corridor tasting a bit like cheap wine. Terrain, and size affecting "tendernous". Never really thought about it much with the deer I shot in the past. I was just happy to have some venison.

    I'd think Bucks taken during, or immediately after the rut might be tough as well. After all the chasing, fighting, and........well.

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    #29
    S-10
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    RE: Rage 3-Blade from a 14pt Shoulder 2011/12/12 15:20:23 (permalink)
    Back in the 70's I bow hunted an area in what is now 2f and took a half dozen bucks of different ages. They were what you would call woods deer with one major exception. Pero Sons had leased a section of the only good farm land aound and planted green beans in it all those years. It was a buffet for the deer and the best deer hunting and tastiest deer meat I have ever experienced.
    #30
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