ORIGINAL: psu_fish

If you feel your unpaid or underprotected as a WCO, find a new profession. Nobody forced you into it

 
The early retirement would have absolutely zero benefit to me even if it were passed tomorrow. I have been around long enough I could retire tomorrow with no penalties. And, I wouldn’t have retired early even if I could have.  
 
But, as I have already pointed out even though most wouldn’t retire early it would be a good option for those that you probably don’t want still doing the job anyway.
 
R.S. Bodenhorn

Sounds like you need a better lobbyist in Harrisburg if PFBC WCO's have it and you dont

It just shows the level of bias some people have toward Game WCOs. Any wonder why we get short with people that harbor such attitudes?

R.S. Bodenhorn

Or it may have something to do with the fact that the PGC is crying poor and can't fund any game research or raise any more ringnecks until they get a license increase. Then we find out that really what they want is a better retirement package for their employees and will spend additional funds on that and are even willing to use the death of one of their own to futher that cause. Pathetic

   Not tryin to pound guys with other opinions 10 just pointing out that its LE - of any kind- who gotta deal with the nuts. Sooner or later some kinda LE pops into their disorganized life and they go wacky.
  Everyone else calls LE to handle them be it a druggie of a poacher - same issue. At least most LE can get help in fairly short order- Coming from a family of Wardens I know they dont always have that luxery.

ORIGINAL: RSB

ORIGINAL: draketrutta

This one really stands out as a Bozo the Clown wishlist item.

Equipping with M-16's for 205 yd shootouts with bad guys?

Gimme a break - perhaps Dooley should suggest that, in such a case, the Game Wardens BACK OFF, and call in the REAL SWAT teams that are heavily equipped with all the good "Black Stuff" bought with taxpayer's money.

Heavy caliber rifles for dispatching wounded animals?
Gimme another break...(I guess instant-death brain pan shots via service revolver are now obsolete).

You have obviously never had someone shooting at you with their deer rifle while you hid behind what ever cover you can find for an hour or more waiting for PSP to arrive with a rifle capable of effectively returning fire. That hour of waiting is pretty much a best case scenario too and dependant on whether you can even safely get to your radio and then if anyone is monitoring the call so you can even let someone know you need some help.
 
I spend countless hours out there on investigations and apprehending poachers and other criminals where I have no radio or phone contact with anyone. The portables we are issued only work at close range and unless I am working with another Officer are useless for getting backup. I have almost no cell phone coverage once I leave the major highways so I am mostly on my own to protect myself. I can just hope no hunter starts shooting at me with their rifle, and during the majority of the season they all have one, while all I am issued and permitted to carry is a handgun with an accuracy range of about 50 yards. Even if we do have another WCO with you it doesn’t make it any better to have two officers pinned down with rifle fire and unable to effectively return fire than it is to have only one officer pinned down when neither one of them has anything but a handgun with them. If is one officer can get out of the line of fire and get back to the vehicle they still can’t provide much in the way of direct assistance until someone gets there with a rifle capable of returning some longer range firepower than a handgun.
 
Hopefully the officers never need any of the firearms they are issued and train with, but when you do need a firearm to save your life nothing else really seems to work very well.
 
R.S. Bodenhorn

A clerk at a convenience store has more encounters than WCO's. Who you kidding RSB ?

ORIGINAL: RSB

ORIGINAL: dpms

ORIGINAL: RSB
 
What it would do is allow Officers who are burned out or simply no longer want to do law enforcement the option to retire instead of them basically forced, financially, to stay on the job after they no longer have any interest in it. Are those the type of Officers we want on the job, just because they can’t qualify for retirement yet without paying a financial penalty for early retirement? 
  

My profession is Physical Therapy. I must work till I am in my mid sixties to begin to draw on my investment plan without getting penalized.  Pensions and early retirement packages do not exist for myself and for most of those in the private sector. 

Being burned out by 50 can happen to anyone. Every day for me has it challenges working with folks with serious health issues. That is not an excuse to do a poor job nor is it an excuse to expect early retirement with benefits. My options are to retire early with the penalities that go with it,  look for another career or keep working doing the best job that I can. My patients would expect no less.  Neither would the sportsmen of this state, in your case.

There is one huge difference though. You don’t have to deal with criminals that would like to kick your azz or perhaps even try to kill you at any given moment while you are arresting them.
 
Anyone who thinks that most people in their 50 and 60s have any type of law enforcement edge, other than using deadly force, when in combat with a much younger assailant hasn’t ever been in a real life or death battle.
 
Do we really want law enforcement officers out other there that no longer have the physical or mental ability to do the job without perhaps using deadly force when a younger officer might have been able to use a lesser means of force to bring the same incident to a successful conclusion?
 
It is not simply a matter of drawing their pension; it also has a lot to do with what makes sense from professional law enforcement standards. That is why the 20 and 50 retirement has been the standard for ALL other state law enforcement officers. Why should it be different for Game Commission WCOs than it is for ALL other state officers?
 
R.S. Bodenhorn

You act like every WCO is engaged in deadly combat on a daily basics. What a misleading post. How many are fat and ride around in vehicles preying on hunters? When a WCO hits 50 let them hang bird houses and teach safety courses. A WCO's job is not as dangerous as you would like everyone to think it is.

Finally we agree ! Your right these mean nothing to me. They are very out dated to start with. Comparing MI to Pa is really scratching in my opinion also. Really RSB, 1988 data is the best you could come up with ?

    Next time ya need help call a convenience store clerk-apparantly the stats show that  he got the experience.
  Love guys who read 'stats' and know all bout something- Ever meet anyone who read a book bout how to swim- then jumped in a deep lake.
   There is a reason you never met anyone like that.

But for those interested and willing to learn, here are a couple of links that provide some of the facts of what Conservation Officers really deal with.

What I read is an assualt doesn't even have to result in harm to be considered. Merely a threat of harm. Now go on the web and look at the number of murders, aggratived assults and simple assults on normal citizens in their normal day of life to compare.

A police officers job is much more dangerous than a WCO's and even they are not in the top ten most dangerous.

Besides the topic really isn't how dangerous the job is or is not but why you are more interested in spending the PGC's money on early retirement rather on items or additional help that could make the job safer. The safety issue is just a smokescreen to deflect critisim

I fully support giving wardens all the equipment they need to do their jobs effectively: be it sat. phones, M4's (or, there has to be some surplus M1s or similar out there that would have cheap ammo and still be effective), better radios, more funding through a license increase to hire more WCOs, etc.

But, as far as retirements go, I'll stay with my staunch, conservative nature and suggest the 20/50's the other LEO's have are too generous. How about making it 25/55 or 30/60, across the board for all state LEOs. I know that would go over like a lead balloon in all those organizations but it is the taxpayer picking up the tab and last time I looked, PA wasn't doing all too well financially. Yes, LE is a stressful, demanding job but the two options I just put forth are still better then the majority of blue collar and white collar jobs in PA that would pay a similar salary.

Just a question, do LEO's (or at least the majority of them), get healthcare coverage in retirement?

Hey Drake- nice to see you over here-
Hey - think the point is the WCO has a job where that may happen- everyone else???
 Kinda think thats why he gets the loaded gun.

ORIGINAL: retired guy

Hey Drake- nice to see you over here-
Hey - think the point is the WCO has a job where that may happen- everyone else???
Kinda think thats why he gets the loaded gun.

RT - they are issued loaded guns, sufficient to fulfill the duties they are charged with. Sorry, but I don't buy into your "may happen" argument.

A porcupine may fall out of a tree and land on a WCO's head (after all, it may happen).
According to your logic, they should be issued kevlar combat helmets also.

IMO - there is no need to turn a State Game Protection Agency into another pack of jack-booted thugs.
************************

to the WCO - I await your link/reference to when/where you were snipered. I'm sure the event made (at the very least) a full page PGC news release. Once again, I await your response.

Many people have jobs that are high risk. You don't have to have be in L/E to be at risk. Many workers put their life on the line everyday at work. Many are exposed to silent killers as their environment is not healthy.

Take a look at how many die from work related environments as compared to how many L/E people die at their job.

Most woulds do anything to have a nice cushy job at the PGC.

Unbelievable... more BS...


I do not know of one single job ANYWHERE including state police or maybe even the military that when LE person encounters another the other person is carrying weapons... probably 99% of the time..

no cop or convenience store workers or even "bings" out there in the woods has that danger..


you guy just continue to live in your make believe world where hunters are so much above the average person... and do not present dangers... that's is so laughable !!!


let's see == we are talking about birds and deer (animals) here where just in the last few years I easily recall these events.. and these ARE HUNTERS !!!!!


Summerville.. man shot and killed, one wounded in a shoot out over a deer crossing a property line...

The DA's buddy who shot the guy who just killed a deer and called home to get help .. and the shooter lied about it...

Just a few weeks ago.. youngster shoots and kills his Dad thinking he was a turkey...

Reynoldsville... man shoots and kills teenager thinking he was a turkey at 35 yards..

WCO Groves shot and killed over a possible poaching case..


Losing lives over game birds and animals... REALLY....


how many deaths would it take for you guys to consider it dangerous.. or at the least admit there are many dangerous guys out there carrying weapons and when a WCO approaches he is to decide which are the goons and thugs and which are the "true hunters"....

not a job I would take at any price .....

I have dealt with the general public and have never encountered a person with a gun while at my job... in the woods just about everyone I run into has a weapon.... even when I see another hunter my first thought is does he see me... does he think I am a turkey.. a deer... a bear ..will he shoot ????

heck just read some post here and other places where guys have posted about what they would have done if they were there when the other hunter did whatever... and they are carrying guns and out there hunting with the rest of us... REALLY ?????

Just how many guys are out there that can not tell the difference in game and humans... how many are willing to kill someone over a deer or a poaching incident, or tresspassing..

go ahead guys keep those heads in the sand and pretend those goons, thugs, etc are not in the woods... they're not carrying weapons... and are not a danger to a WCO who wants to confront/question them...

Humans are dying over game birds and animals.. and you few thing it is not a dangerous job confronting these crazies day after day.. and remember they have weapons !!!


UNBELIEVABLE

You got a better chance getting shot at delivering pizza than in the woods. A pizza delivery guy has to use his own car and WCO doesn't.

I rarely ask OA questions for fear of his answer ...

BUT here goes..

How many pizza delivery guys do you think there would be if every time they delivered the guy at the door was holding a loaded weapon ???????

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

You got a better chance getting shot at delivering pizza than in the woods. A pizza delivery guy has to use his own car and WCO doesn't.

I rarely ask OA questions for fear of his answer ...

BUT here goes..

How many pizza delivery guys do you think there would be if every time they delivered the guy at the door was holding a loaded weapon ???????

How many police would there be if every call was a shoot out. How many WCO"s would there be if they spent every day hinding behind trees as they got shot at ?????????????