ORIGINAL: DarDys

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

ORIGINAL: DarDys
  The minority gets special privledges and the majoirty does not. Simple as that.

I see you're having trouble separating biological versus social. This is not about you, or me, or majority, or minority. It is about the deer herd itself. The PGC does not care how deer get killed, but what they do know is archery season is low impact on the deer herd, rifle season is not. That is why you will see archery season expand in the future. The PGC is not favoring archers (what I meant when I said social favoritism), it's low impact.

As far as your comments about enough is enough. You sound a little jealous. Get off your arse and join the ranks. We get to pick the biggest bucks >> You don't have a clue how difficult it is to get one of those bucks under you and make a shot. For some reason, 80% of the deer kill is my unit is from rifle season. Who has it easy ? We get nice weather ? Pick up a bow. We get a longer season because it's more difficult, alot more difficult despite nice weather and unpressured big bucks (yeah right). Do you "get it?"

You are correct, the PGC doesn't care how the deer herd gets killed, so why not cater to those buying an extra stamp to increase their revenues.  I don't consider 30% of the kill low impact.   I consider it darn near a third.

I don't want to join your ranks.  I shot a bow (recurve because comps didn't exist yet) long before you were a gleam in your father's eye and I was fairly good at it.  But I have no desire to turn deer hunting into a job, no desire to stick one with an arrow, and no desire to give up small game hunting.  And why should I have to - to apease a minoirty?

As for how difficult it is to get one of those bucks under you and make a shot, your right, I don't.  But I would bet the farm that it is a darn sight easier to get a buck under you and make the shot in archery season than it is when that buck is in someone's freezer before the season even starts.  Remember, hunting isn't a catch and release sport.

Use whatever numbers you want 70/30, which is what the PGc license sales say, or 60/40 or even 57/43, archer are still a minority.  When they get to be a majority, which they probably eventually will, then do the firearms hunters get the special tratment that the minority does now?  If not, why not?  It seems okay now.

No one said it was easy.  But you must admit, it pretty hard to harvest (kill, whatever) a deer in firearms season when it has already been harvest (killed, whatever).

Again, I have no issue with how things are now.  I am glad you guys enjoy your sport.  But realize that there are many, as in a majority, that do no enjoy your sport and by keeping asking for more and more, you appear to be getting alot and wanting even more.

ORIGINAL: DarDys

ORIGINAL: eyesandgillz

Dardys,
Just admit it, you are jealous of archery hunters and the archery season. One simple fix, join us. I know it would cut into your small game time but I have many friends that do both. See, if archery season is extended, you'll definitely have time to enjoy both! See how easy that was....

And yeah, PA's archery season should be longer and should definitely include the rut. There, I said it. My selfishness has shown through. But guess what, those 60% or so of PA hunters that identify themselves as rifle deer hunters only have just as much opportunity to pick up the bow and, geesh, even a crossbow now and join in the fun. NO ONE is stopping them other than themselves. No sense complaining about it or trying to gain sympathy from others for it because you'll get none when you are limiting yourself.

If I were jealous of archery season, I wouldn't be in support of it as I have written many times.  I just think that the minority has been given enough.  I also bet that your friends that do both don't have nearly $50K worth of bird dogs either.  I am not loking for sympathy, just an admission that archery hunters have it pretty good for a minoirty and, as you did, admit that they want more, more, more.  It is like handing a person a briefcase with a million dollars in it and they complain because all the bills don't face the same direction.

And, yes, you are being selfish.  Why should the majority need to become part of the minority in order to benefit?  I don't understand why it doesn't sink in that the reason firearms hunters don't bow hunt is because they don't want to -- for whatever reason.  If your line of thinking were applied to fishing that would be like saying, okay all you bait fisherman out there, of the six months of steelhead season, the first 75% of the seaon will be open to centerpin only and if you don't like that, just become a pinner.
Heck, with your thinking, we should all go on welfare -- no one is stopping us but ourselves -- then it wouldn't matter how long the seasons were. 

ORIGINAL: S-10
What makes you say that----If your alive when you wake up, if a fireball isn't hurtling
towards earth, the deer are still out there, it's hunting season, Real hunters hunt, others drink beer and talk hunting. Just try not to be lulled to sleep by the gentle rocking of the tree.

ORIGINAL: BIGHEAD

I know all about C&M and I'm personal friends with the original owners Dik and Rudy. It's no secret that they can't compete with large retailers any more. I often visit them and the store is dead come September nothing of what it once was. Arrow sales also took a drop from earlier days. They used to make arrows non stop from Aug till into October. Wasn't the case when I stopped in and yes it was the end of September last season. Now, many can buy on line and get exactly want they want. I would try and buy my raw materials from them as to support the dealer and personal friend as did some members of the BV archers club. Only high end compounds can be bought from a dealer as one example but many other items are being bought on line and at large retail stores. The dealers such as C&M could not finance the amount of stock necessary to compete with others as mentioned and pushed some to buy else were. Remember when other than the dealer, the only place you could buy archery products was Sol's Neft stores and what little K-Mart carried ? Times are changing.Order online with free shipping. One thing most large retailers don't have is a knowledgeable people behind the counter and a good pro shop to properly set up and tune equipment. C&M has been for sale for a long time and yes you are right Big O wanted out. I watched the business slowly go down hill as the years passed and watched help come and go.I also think that when BV archers built their indoor range that many left C&M as to a place to shoot indoors. BTW another large dealer is closing as well in Warren. Wild Wind Sporters. Once a Bowtech dealer with also an indoor range with video recently had more x-bows than compounds and is going out of business. Go figure. OA you said that C&M is out of business because of crossbows and that is NOT the case More like when Rudy got out so did a fair amount of customers and some of the people that are/were working there did pretty shoty work on equipment/bows,bad attitude,and some retail stores did not help.Plus the FACT that Larry has been wanting to retire for a few years! CROSSBOWS DID NOT PUT THEM OUT But I bet you knew that RIGHT Dave

ORIGINAL: Esox_Hunter

ORIGINAL: S-10
What makes you say that----If your alive when you wake up, if a fireball isn't hurtling
towards earth, the deer are still out there, it's hunting season, Real hunters hunt, others drink beer and talk hunting. Just try not to be lulled to sleep by the gentle rocking of the tree.

Sheesh I can't even take one day off to drink beer (on my b-day) without losing my status as a real hunter

Its only the second week so I am not overly concerned with missing a day here an there due to nasty weather.  I have vacation for Nov and will hunt those days regardless of weather.

And what is this "gentle" rocking in sustained 20-30mph winds you speak of?  More like the magic carpet ride at Kennywood

And what is this "gentle" rocking in sustained 20-30mph winds you speak of? More like the magic carpet ride at Kennywood

ORIGINAL: wayne c

Just one short comment on the crossbows, I know for the last few months those things have FLOWN off the shelves around here. I Dont know if its rifle hunters picking them up, or bow guys converting or both, but they are selling like HOTCAKES. Would have liked to have had a way to get separate stats to see how much they make up of the overall archery license sales.

ORIGINAL: S-10

We were all rifle hunters to start with. Some never lost the mentality.

ORIGINAL: dpms

ORIGINAL: S-10

We were all rifle hunters to start with. Some never lost the mentality.

Could be.  Could also be there are alot of folks in all weapon groups that show poor judgment at times. 

Anyway, been tough for me this year.  I am seeing deer but I must have fawn magnet written on me because that is all that I can get under me.  Have yet to see a buck.

Could also be there are alot of folks in all weapon groups that show poor judgment at times.

ORIGINAL: S-10

By the end of next week things should pick up. I've only had 3 small bucks under me so far but it was the same thing last year until the end of the third week. I have had a couple hog doe both with twin fawns under me. One looked to be 5-6yo.

ORIGINAL: Outdoor Adventures

ORIGINAL: BIGHEAD

I know all about C&M and I'm personal friends with the original owners Dik and Rudy. It's no secret that they can't compete with large retailers any more. I often visit them and the store is dead come September nothing of what it once was. Arrow sales also took a drop from earlier days. They used to make arrows non stop from Aug till into October. Wasn't the case when I stopped in and yes it was the end of September last season. Now, many can buy on line and get exactly want they want. I would try and buy my raw materials from them as to support the dealer and personal friend as did some members of the BV archers club. Only high end compounds can be bought from a dealer as one example but many other items are being bought on line and at large retail stores. The dealers such as C&M could not finance the amount of stock necessary to compete with others as mentioned and pushed some to buy else were. Remember when other than the dealer, the only place you could buy archery products was Sol's Neft stores and what little K-Mart carried ? Times are changing.Order online with free shipping. One thing most large retailers don't have is a knowledgeable people behind the counter and a good pro shop to properly set up and tune equipment. C&M has been for sale for a long time and yes you are right Big O wanted out. I watched the business slowly go down hill as the years passed and watched help come and go.I also think that when BV archers built their indoor range that many left C&M as to a place to shoot indoors. BTW another large dealer is closing as well in Warren. Wild Wind Sporters. Once a Bowtech dealer with also an indoor range with video recently had more x-bows than compounds and is going out of business. Go figure. OA you said that C&M is out of business because of crossbows and that is NOT the case More like when Rudy got out so did a fair amount of customers and some of the people that are/were working there did pretty shoty work on equipment/bows,bad attitude,and some retail stores did not help.Plus the FACT that Larry has been wanting to retire for a few years! CROSSBOWS DID NOT PUT THEM OUT But I bet you knew that RIGHT Dave

Well Dave lets look at this this way. If the archery business was booming such as it was years ago then C&M probaly would still be in buiness regaurdless of who owns it. The amount of guys shooting coumpounds has decreased and the populatity of the x-bow has increased.The buisnass is not there. Big Buck in Wexford is also dropping their compound bows as well due to the popularity of the crossbow. Best thing for them is that they sell other than archery. Go out to D*CKS and look and see how many people are buying x bows rather than coumpounds and then tell me that x-bows didn't have an effect on C&M's buiness.