Cost of Materials

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steely34
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2011/06/26 21:18:05 (permalink)

Cost of Materials

The new fad is costing us. It's really got out of hand.
Think I'll start raising roosters!

http://shop.ebay.com/terrylorin/m.html?_trksid=p4340.l2562






"They say you forget your troubles on a trout stream, but that's not quite it..... you begin to see where your troubles fit into the grand scheme of things, and suddenly they're just not such a big deal anymore."

John Gierach

#1

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    mohawksyd
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/06/26 21:22:54 (permalink)
    I'll go halvsies with you, Steely.

    "For the supreme test of a fisherman is not how many fish he has caught...but what he has caught when he has caught no fish." - John H. Bradley

    #2
    KJH807
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/06/27 10:22:02 (permalink)
    its crazy...
    There was a bunch of articles written like 2 or 3 weeks ago... all mentioned the short supply of feathers
    from my understanding... there will be no new feathers untill spring 2012
    there have been runors of pre-sold 2012 stock... so it may be 2013 until "we" see new feathers
    and there will be a new pricing structures that will leave us paying a lot for a little

    So the salons are trying to stockpile as they can.. but can't keep it in stock
    at a rate of $10-$20 per feather at a salon... $650 for a full saddle still leaves a lot of room for a salon to make their cut.

    it will be interesting to see if this trend will last past summer and into fall/winter
    fashion is fickle... this could go the way of every other stupid trend
    but the fact that it is super $$$$ and rare, only will fuel the trend/style
    and with it being a natural product with a slow development time... there could be a 2nd boom when new feathers hit the market

    When this all goes away, hopefully the salons will put the feathers back on the market... rather than throwing them in the trash
    its amazing how many tying-usable feathers are ending up in the trash now!



    #3
    dano
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/06/27 11:36:19 (permalink)
    According to my 21 yr old daughter, the fad has come and gone amongst her friends. Once everybody starting wearing the extensions, it no longer becomes unique.
    Whiting has split their pre-orders between the salons and tying shops.(rumored)
    Once the fad is over, they are expecting prices to drop to their normal high prices.
     
    I've seen most good quality Whiting grzzly and barred ginger capes exeeding $600 on fleabay.
    I'm puting mine up for sale, today.
    #4
    KJH807
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/06/27 11:57:13 (permalink)
    this is an email from whiting back in Feb

    Dear Whiting Farms Customer,

    Whiting Farms is experiencing an unprecedented onslaught of orders for our EuroHackle saddles. This is not just from the fashion world, but largely from the fly fishing pro shops that have new customers coming to them to buy our dry fly saddles for use in various fashion modes; hair weaves, ear rings, jewelry and crafts. This new traffic and business is welcome by the pro shops but we are faced with a real dilemma: orders vastly exceed supply! Understandably the shops that have put in orders to Whiting Farms, of any quantity, and are very keen to get them filled. But the number of saddles being ordered simply doesn’t exist. We wish we had as many saddles as everyone wanted. The crop of EuroHackle roosters to be harvested for 2011 is fixed and no changes can be made. Increases in production of this product line have and are being made, but the increasing numbers will be gradual and won’t really be seen until 2012! Therefore we have been intensely pondering how we can most equitably allocate what saddles we do have coming to harvest in 2011.

    The only fair way, I feel, is to divide and conquer. By this I mean we are going to disassemble our EuroHackle saddles and repackage them in a new product line called the “Whiting Fashion Pack”. Sixteen long feathers of a single color will be affixed on our branded board, very much like our Whiting 100 Packs, but not sized as to hook size. The suggested retail price will be $20.00 [...] Most of the customers wanting these fashion feathers are wanting to experiment and so the smaller quantities will be welcome and more appropriate. The lower price point will encourage them to possibly buy a range of colors or several packs. A full or even half EuroHackle saddle is usually too many feathers of only one color for any hobbyist anyway.

    In order to do this more fair allocation of our limited EuroHackle saddles we will have to cease selling full or half saddles as a product line. We are making an extra effort to keep our flagship Whiting dry fly saddles, and the new High and Dry saddles, in good stock to supply all the fly tier’s needs.

    We appreciate your understanding of these needed changes.

    Sincerely, Tom Whiting


    ... this was before the fad hit its stride
    No more full or half saddles... at the time it was just was the eurohackle... who knows after the recent grab of feathers
    but 16 feathers for $20
    problem is... whiting and the other farms missed out on all the $$$
    shops and tiers are the ones making the crazy profits
    once they bump up the MSRP, it will never return to pre-fad prices
    the "allocation" whiting speaks about is an across the board rise in prices for much less product



    #5
    Esox_Hunter
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/06/27 12:26:40 (permalink)
    Wow, that is unbelievable what they are selling for.
     
    I probably have 2 dozen necks/half necks laying around.  I really don't tie as much as I used to and after seeing this I am seriously considering going through them and throwing some up on Ebay. 
    #6
    PeteM
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/06/27 12:28:51 (permalink)
    Just for laughs-

    When Lefty Kreh said "There is more bulls*&t in fly fishing than a Kansas feedlot" I doubt he knew that it would go this far.

    http://yoganonymous.org/spotlight-on-fine-featherheads-the-original-feather-hair-extension/
    #7
    dimebrite
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/06/27 14:57:52 (permalink)
    Hey guys, you should check out collins hackle farm.... if they're pricing is current with their website; there will be a bunch of happy tiers in here
    #8
    thedrake
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/06/27 17:25:54 (permalink)
    Luckily, I've got enough hackle to last me for about 2 more years for both production, and my own flies, so long as I don't use too much of it in my hair.
    #9
    RhnstnCowboy
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/06/27 17:36:27 (permalink)
    If any of you need to get a hold of me, I'll be up all night dying chicken feathers...

    "Part of being a Leftist is the smug conviction that you and people like you are smart, while everyone else is stupid and/or evil"
    - T. Fleming
    #10
    luvinbluegills
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/06/27 20:57:29 (permalink)
    Started selling mine! Heck, if I work it properly I'll be able to restock easily. :)

    Faith is only as good as its object
    Adventures with Fish
    #11
    FlyFishingPenrod
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/07/01 16:02:52 (permalink)
    From my understanding off all this, would not pricing fall greatly because farmers may start raising more birds? Then, when the fad dies, there will be more than enough to go around, thus making the price come down?

    I think it's ludacris that fly shops are selling to these people for style. Just another reason people will go the world wide web for their products. In a way, it kind of sheds light on how fly shops will do anything for a buck, which is why I think a lot of people don't care about spending the extra money in the shop. I'll admit that I even do so myself. Times are tough and even though I don't consider myself financially burdened, I don't see a sense in paying substantial amounts more just to support a fly shop. This is not selfish reasoning; the money usually ends up in the family somehow, which is more important than Ken saving his business because his prices were a little high. I've just been informed last week that I will be a great grandpa in 7 months. Saving twenty here or there is really going to help, but saving less than 10 by buying online is something I will not EVER do.

    Jess
    post edited by FlyFishingPenrod - 2011/07/01 16:05:22
    #12
    KJH807
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/07/01 16:28:41 (permalink)
    these are geneticly engineered bird for the feathers... not easy to double the flock
    Whitting will NEVER sell full saddles agian (from what i have been told)
    packing and pricing structure will change forever

    shops are charging anymore than retail for over the counter purchases... its the tiers with large amount of hackle that are lisitng on ebay or shops taking the hackle to the private market

    i'm still sitting on some good stuff...








    #13
    PeteM
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/07/01 19:21:33 (permalink)
    I think that the trend is winding down. I was scanning ebay last night for a bit and prices seem to have started to slide.

    Price is a reflection of what the market will bear. If no one pays (buys) then the price will be forced down, otherwise you will have producers sitting on a bunch of cost and unrealized profit in the form of unsold goods. For example- I have only been tying for a few years, yet I have enough tying supplies right now to last for at least another 2 if I don't purchase anything but hooks until I run my supply completely down. Yet, the farms are continuously producing a given quantity. If they continue to do so for the next couple of years while I continue to use what I have, there will be a big lopside on the supply end, while demand has fallen to zilch. If they cull the flock to decrease supply, they risk losing ability to meet demand and the ability to produce these wonder chickens.

    I also doubt that the main suppliers underestimate the creative ability to improvise of a group who take fur and feathers and fashion them into buglike forms which they use to trick fish. If they do, they will darwin themselves right out of business. That is the downside of literally having all of your eggs in one basket. There is virtually no other commercial application for the chickens that these feathers come from except grinding them into crud and using it as a basic ingredient in other animal feed.

    All I see it as is a windfall opportunity for profit, not a sign to change a business model. I doubt that the folks who built the industry see it as anything other than that either.
    #14
    dano
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/07/03 09:14:58 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: FlyFishingPenrod


    I think it's ludacris that fly shops are selling to these people for style. Just another reason people will go the world wide web for their products. In a way, it kind of sheds light on how fly shops will do anything for a buck, which is why I think a lot of people don't care about spending the extra money in the shop.
    Jess

     
    I've never met a person who got rich running a fly shop.
    If you do find that fly shop that refuses to sell to the fashion industry, let me know.
    I think I could pull it off, going into the shop, posing as a fly tier and buying out his complete stock of saddles.
    I get emails daily from ebayers wondering if I have anymore saddles to sell.
     
     
    #15
    KJH807
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/07/03 10:34:38 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: dano

    I get emails daily from ebayers wondering if I have anymore saddles to sell.



    send them my way



    #16
    dano
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/07/03 11:34:33 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: KJH807


    ORIGINAL: dano

    I get emails daily from ebayers wondering if I have anymore saddles to sell.



    send them my way

     
    I had one fella stating that he was a commercial tier, wanting to know if I could help him out as he has run out of barred ginger saddle and has a large order of flies to get out.
    I checked his ebay feedback and found him/her selling feather extensions..
    I replied and asked if he could be more specific as to what flies he's tying and what hackle size and length he needs. He said he needs long ones,whatever I have.
    So far, the highest offer I've had was $250 for the barred ginger from "hair products for less". All these email senders try low ball offers but don't respond to my much higher counter offer.
     
    How much do you want for both grizzly saddles??????
     
     
    #17
    dano
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/07/05 13:53:48 (permalink)
    Sold my slightly picked over, barred light ginger saddle.
    1375% mark-up from original cost.
     
    #18
    KJH807
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/07/05 14:02:23 (permalink)
    my best was a red grizzly that i sold for 34x what i paid for it
    world is a crazy place



    #19
    onestring
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/07/05 16:58:06 (permalink)
    i looked yesterday and the grizley was at $940 anyone see what it went for
    #20
    onestring
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    dano
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/07/06 00:39:35 (permalink)
    Sold another picked over saddle for 511.00
    what a stupid fad....unbelievably stupid..
     
     
     
    #22
    KJH807
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/07/06 09:12:45 (permalink)
    i had someone buy most of my natural grizzly lastnight... in single feathers



    #23
    trout man
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/07/06 09:55:26 (permalink)
    What we need is as fashionable rumor about how unhealthy it is to put feathers in your hair. You know : Microscopic organisms on the feathers that cause hypertention, hair loss, cancer. Whatever it takes. Spread the word!
    Tight lines
    Trout Man
    #24
    dano
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/07/06 12:34:25 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: trout man

    What we need is as fashionable rumor about how unhealthy it is to put feathers in your hair. You know : Microscopic organisms on the feathers that cause hypertention, hair loss, cancer. Whatever it takes. Spread the word!
    Tight lines
    Trout Man

     
    OK, but wait until I sell out my stock, first.
    #25
    FlyFishingPenrod
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/07/07 06:49:15 (permalink)
    I have a bairly used full neck of grizzly. How much you think I can get of this little beauty?
    #26
    dano
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/07/07 10:38:39 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: FlyFishingPenrod

    I have a bairly used full neck of grizzly. How much you think I can get of this little beauty?

     
    They want long-thin saddle hackle.
    Whiting neck prices are still holding and still the best bang for the buck for hackling dry flies.
    #27
    dano
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/07/07 11:28:58 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: trout man

    What we need is as fashionable rumor about how unhealthy it is to put feathers in your hair. You know : Microscopic organisms on the feathers that cause hypertention, hair loss, cancer. Whatever it takes. Spread the word!
    Tight lines
    Trout Man

     
    OK trout man, I think Hollywood and NYC types now need to be aware of how these feathers come to market.
    I would bet that those little girls are unaware that the flock is slaughtered, scalped and skinned to provide those fashionable feathers.
    I think it's time the fly tying industry partners with PETA to put up a few billboards explaining the process.
    I think it would be worthwhile for all of us to carry a few vials of chicken blood to throw on these feather wearing, chicken murdering people.
     
    But we should wait until I at least find a buyer for my brown saddle. Apparently, brown is not in demand at the moment. I may have to pluck & sell the feathers in small lots mixed in with more popular colrs.
    #28
    trout man
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/07/08 10:33:06 (permalink)
    Dano

    I dont think we want to partner with PETA. Once they get the feathers out of the girls hair, they will be stuck in ours. After all a chicken has rights regardless of how you cook them or what you use their feathers for!
    Tight LInes
    Trout Man
    #29
    RhnstnCowboy
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    RE: Cost of Materials 2011/07/14 12:19:44 (permalink)
    I was behind a lady in line at the grocery store this morning and she had one of those feathers tied into her hair. First time I have seen it in public. I was tempted to ask how much she paid for it, but I knew if I opened my mouth, I wouldn't be able to refrain from calling her a moron...

    "Part of being a Leftist is the smug conviction that you and people like you are smart, while everyone else is stupid and/or evil"
    - T. Fleming
    #30
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