ORIGINAL: DarDys

ORIGINAL: Esox_Hunter

To be fair, I know many people in their mid-late 50's  that are not senior hunters, who quit hunting because;  "it wasrough on my knees" "it was too hard on my back" "I don't have the energy to get up the hills anymore" "my heart can't take it" ect.  I work with a number of these people and some are even family/friends of the family. 

I know a lot of those poeple too.  But you know what, when they could actually go out and get a deer, they still hunted with those ailments because it was worth it -- they got something for their pain.  Now that they are not seeing a return in exchange for the pain, the ailment becomes an excuse to quit.

ORIGINAL: Esox_Hunter

ORIGINAL: DarDys

ORIGINAL: Esox_Hunter

To be fair, I know many people in their mid-late 50's  that are not senior hunters, who quit hunting because;  "it wasrough on my knees" "it was too hard on my back" "I don't have the energy to get up the hills anymore" "my heart can't take it" ect.  I work with a number of these people and some are even family/friends of the family. 

I know a lot of those poeple too.  But you know what, when they could actually go out and get a deer, they still hunted with those ailments because it was worth it -- they got something for their pain.  Now that they are not seeing a return in exchange for the pain, the ailment becomes an excuse to quit.

That is not even remotely true for the instances I speak of.  Nice try though.


When I look at back at things, I have never personally heard someone cite lack of deer as even a partial reason for quitting hunting.  I have heard every excuse under the sun as to why they quit such as work, family, money, illness, time, ect., ect. but never even heard low deer populations and quit hunting in the same sentence firsthand.  Sure I hear people whining and complaining every now and then, but those people continue to hunt.....     

ORIGINAL: DarDys

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

If hunting is considered a "pain" - it's time to hang it up, deer down or not. I say peace out !

The pain I was referring to were those in Esox's post -- rough on the knees, too hard on my back, etc.

Right now it takes me a day or so of recovery after a hunt.  I imagine in the near future that time frame will be longer. 

As an example, after hunitng the first Saturday of this season my wife was so sore and stiff and in pain she barely could move on Sunday.  After muddling through a half day of work on Monday, she couldn't stand it any more and had to go to the Chiropractor to get straightened out.  That lead to two more trips that week. 

For those that are not as successful as they once were, it may reach a point where the recovery and pain are not longer worth it to them.

You say a shortsighted few, but I beg that the majority don't care about the PGC. They care about themselves and easy killing. If the killing is easy, it doesn't matter who runs the show. It's only when killing becomes more difficult, the blaming starts.

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

ORIGINAL: DarDys

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

If hunting is considered a "pain" - it's time to hang it up, deer down or not. I say peace out !

The pain I was referring to were those in Esox's post -- rough on the knees, too hard on my back, etc.

Right now it takes me a day or so of recovery after a hunt.  I imagine in the near future that time frame will be longer. 

As an example, after hunitng the first Saturday of this season my wife was so sore and stiff and in pain she barely could move on Sunday.  After muddling through a half day of work on Monday, she couldn't stand it any more and had to go to the Chiropractor to get straightened out.  That lead to two more trips that week. 

For those that are not as successful as they once were, it may reach a point where the recovery and pain are not longer worth it to them.

So... what's the solution ? Raise deer numbers to make it easier on those you refer to ?

Why are we so concerned about those people ? For their interests ? Do you really care about their interests ? For the PGC surivial ? For hunting ? Or, because you want for yourself, deer killing as easy as possible ? (not that there's anything wrong with that).

I suspect it's the latter for most people in the group you refer to. Lots of them will however say to save hunting, yet never do much for hunting beyond hunting.

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

ORIGINAL: S-10

People quit a sport(any sport) when the rewards they get from the sport are no longer equal to or greater than the amount of time, energy, money, or bodily abuse they put into the sport. It can be deer hunting or marbles. It's just a fact of life and no amount of wishin or hoping is going to change it. Each person has his own idea of when that tipping point is and in Pennsylvania over 200,000 former deer hunters have already reached it and they reached it since the start of Herd Reduction.

This is my opinion which I believe I'm entitled to. Said it before and I'll say it again.

Hunting is not a sport. A sport is competition between two entities where there is a winner and a loser. Hunting is an instinct -- it's built into us, it shows in where our eyes are placed on head and it in how our hearts pound when prey approaches. If one views hunting as competitive; you view it as winning and losing.. you won't do it very long because you will lose more often than win, no matter deer numbers.



I must ask ... you complain so much about losing deer hunters.. yet praise the states that have less hunters and bigger antlered deer. Size of antlers are a direction reflection of pressure. More so on public land but it happens on private too. What is it that you want ?

The simplest example of an instinctive behavior is a fixed action pattern, in which a short sequence of actions, without variation, are carried out in response to a clearly defined stimulus. However, instinctive behaviors can also be variable and responsive to the environment. Any behavior is instinctive if it is performed without being based upon prior experience, that is, in the absence of learning.

ORIGINAL: DarDys

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

ORIGINAL: DarDys

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

ORIGINAL: S-10

People quit a sport(any sport) when the rewards they get from the sport are no longer equal to or greater than the amount of time, energy, money, or bodily abuse they put into the sport. It can be deer hunting or marbles. It's just a fact of life and no amount of wishin or hoping is going to change it. Each person has his own idea of when that tipping point is and in Pennsylvania over 200,000 former deer hunters have already reached it and they reached it since the start of Herd Reduction.

This is my opinion which I believe I'm entitled to. Said it before and I'll say it again.

Hunting is not a sport. A sport is competition between two entities where there is a winner and a loser. Hunting is an instinct -- it's built into us, it shows in where our eyes are placed on head and it in how our hearts pound when prey approaches. If one views hunting as competitive; you view it as winning and losing.. you won't do it very long because you will lose more often than win, no matter deer numbers.



I must ask ... you complain so much about losing deer hunters.. yet praise the states that have less hunters and bigger antlered deer. Size of antlers are a direction reflection of pressure. More so on public land but it happens on private too. What is it that you want ?

Hunting became a sport when it was not longer a means of subsistance.  If it weren't a sport, there would be no rules.

I would say that is backwards. If it's about survival, there is competition. The winner lives and the loser dies.

Our hunting rules are for conservation and regulation purposes, not competition.

I disagree.  If hunting were not a sport, but rather a mtter of instict as you put forth, you wuold hunt anytime, anywhere, and with anything in order to satisfy that instinct.  Because you restrain yourself to follow arbitrary rules that don't exist in nature that instinct is transformed into sport.

As for hunting not being a competition, the winner satill lives and the loser still dies.  Unless the winner doe snot kill the loser.  In that case it is not hunting, it is nature watching.

Perhaps you should look up what stimulus is .. in your definition of instinct.  Do you get excited when a deer approaches ?  That's instinct.  Nuff said.

Hunting is not a learned ability, you are born with it.   I can't believe you're trying to defy evolution of man!   Man had eyes focused forward long before he understood he was hunting.  When you got a sling shot or BB gun when you were young, did someone teach you to go shoot at an animal ?  No teaching or learning for you to execute the act; you just did it.

ORIGINAL: deerfly

Perhaps you should look up what stimulus is .. in your definition of instinct.  Do you get excited when a deer approaches ?  That's instinct.  Nuff said.

Hunting is not a learned ability, you are born with it.   I can't believe you're trying to defy evolution of man!   Man had eyes focused forward long before he understood he was hunting.  When you got a sling shot or BB gun when you were young, did someone teach you to go shoot at an animal ?  No teaching or learning for you to execute the act; you just did it.

Well, at least now I understand how you can support the PGC and their DMP. Anyone that would try to take one word out of a definition and twist it to support his opinion can obviously find a way to justify anything he chooses to support. Based on the definition, if hunting was based on instinct, a hunter would immediately raise his gun and fire when he saw a deer . That would be an instinctive response based on the definition. But, hunters first determine if the deer is legal, then they decide if they want to shoot it and then they have to wait until they have an ethical shot. None of those actions are based on instinct,they are all learned responses.

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

ORIGINAL: deerfly

Perhaps you should look up what stimulus is .. in your definition of instinct.  Do you get excited when a deer approaches ?  That's instinct.  Nuff said.

Hunting is not a learned ability, you are born with it.   I can't believe you're trying to defy evolution of man!   Man had eyes focused forward long before he understood he was hunting.  When you got a sling shot or BB gun when you were young, did someone teach you to go shoot at an animal ?  No teaching or learning for you to execute the act; you just did it.

Well, at least now I understand how you can support the PGC and their DMP. Anyone that would try to take one word out of a definition and twist it to support his opinion can obviously find a way to justify anything he chooses to support. Based on the definition, if hunting was based on instinct, a hunter would immediately raise his gun and fire when he saw a deer . That would be an instinctive response based on the definition. But, hunters first determine if the deer is legal, then they decide if they want to shoot it and then they have to wait until they have an ethical shot. None of those actions are based on instinct,they are all learned responses.

Is that seriously all you got ?   Mixing logic with instinct ?  I agree, that is what humans do and why we are different than all other creatures.  You just keep making my point. 

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

ORIGINAL: deerfly

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

ORIGINAL: deerfly

Perhaps you should look up what stimulus is .. in your definition of instinct.  Do you get excited when a deer approaches ?  That's instinct.  Nuff said.

Hunting is not a learned ability, you are born with it.   I can't believe you're trying to defy evolution of man!   Man had eyes focused forward long before he understood he was hunting.  When you got a sling shot or BB gun when you were young, did someone teach you to go shoot at an animal ?  No teaching or learning for you to execute the act; you just did it.

Well, at least now I understand how you can support the PGC and their DMP. Anyone that would try to take one word out of a definition and twist it to support his opinion can obviously find a way to justify anything he chooses to support. Based on the definition, if hunting was based on instinct, a hunter would immediately raise his gun and fire when he saw a deer . That would be an instinctive response based on the definition. But, hunters first determine if the deer is legal, then they decide if they want to shoot it and then they have to wait until they have an ethical shot. None of those actions are based on instinct,they are all learned responses.

Is that seriously all you got ?   Mixing logic with instinct ?  I agree, that is what humans do and why we are different than all other creatures.  You just keep making my point. 

Apparently I got more than you can handle since you didn't provide a rational response to my previous post. I didn't mix instinct with logic since I didn't even mention the word logic. If hunting was based on instinct hunters would no have to make a series of decisions before attempting to kill a deer. All hunters go through a learning process. They learn to shoot, they go through the hunter safety course, and then they go through the process of learning to hunt deer.

Did the 200K hunters that quit somehow lose their instinct for killing deer?

Wrong again !  I did provide ration, you just didn't like it.  Making decisions IS logic.  I didn't think I had to spell everything out for you.   I did not say there wasn't learning or decision making in hunting.  It would be ridiculous to say anything a human does, does not involve decision making.  I said hunting is an instinct.  What I didn't say was that there isn't a decision making process in hunting.  You made that up yourself.    

Rationing is the controlled distribution of scarce resources, goods, or services. Rationing controls the size of the ration, one's allotted portion of the resources being distributed on a particular day or at a particular time

You're failing to understand that hunting is not killing and that killing is not hunting when you refer to a % of the population participating in hunting seasons.  The choice to participate in killing is an emotional choice.  To dismiss that hunting is not instinct is to dismiss evolution.   Good luck with that.