Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
Dr. Trout
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Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
Since some one posted what I feel is a negative type article about this commissioner, I feel it only fair to post one on the postive side ... A closer look PGC to review management unit boundaries Mark Nale When the subject of Wildlife Management Units comes up, almost every hunter seems to have likes or dislikes. Many of those opinions center on where unit boundaries are drawn and the size of WMUs when compared to the former management by county. Pennsylvania Game Commission deer biologist Chris Rosenberry has explained that reasonably large units are necessary to make statistically valid conclusions about species management. According to Rosenberry, even when county management has been used, often several counties would be lumped together in order to get numbers large enough to make management decisions. Northcentral Pennsylvania’s 4,000-square mile WMU 2G, including the northern third of Centre County, is often mentioned as an area that is too large for effective management. It is the largest of the 22 WMUs. While the system is statewide, complaints are usually local. It appears that there are enough concerns about WMU 2G that its borders will receive a close look during the next 12 months. It helps when one of the concerned hunters is a game commissioner. “WMU 2G illustrates a lot of the problems that we have with deer management,†commissioner Dave Putnam said at the commission’s Feb. 1 meeting. From the hardwoods in the north to the mixed oaks in the southern part of 2G, the habitat varies significantly, according to Putnam. The habitat also differs somewhat from east to west. He would like to split up the unit into smaller areas based mostly on forest type. Putnam, who lives in Centre Hall, often hunts deer in the northwest part of 2G, where he has a hunting camp. Ten years ago, wildlife management, antlerless deer license sales and harvest reporting was done by county. At times, multi-county sections were set up for bear, turkey, pheasant or other game management. The current all-species unified WMU system was first implemented during the 2003-04 hunting and trapping seasons. Doe licenses were first allocated by WMU, instead of county, for the fall of 2003. Almost everyone within the Game Commission agrees that it is about time to scrutinize the WMUs again. The commission’s chief forester, Dave Gustafson, and director of wildlife habitat management Bill Capouillez will be a part of the re-evaluation team. “The landscape changes and species management changes. We are committed to looking at WMUs again,†Capouillez said. “With any kind of a program, there is always a need to revisit it just to see how we are doing,†Gustafson commented. The commission reviewed the WMUs in 2007 and made minor changes in 2008. Looking at a planned five-year interval, it is almost time to review the units once again — this is scheduled to happen in 2012. Several commissioners, it appears, want to get the process started early. Commissioner Robert Schlemmer, of Westmoreland County, mentioned at the winter commission meeting that he thought WMU 2B (Allegheny County and parts of adjacent counties) was too large and that the staff should look into shrinking it. Putnam is pushing for a new look at WMU 2G. “The habitat sites are too different†from one end of the unit to the other, Putnam noted. “They are in different ecological cycles. Some areas have better habitat and could hold more deer, but currently we treat them all the same. For example, some of the best deer habitat in the state is currently in McKean County in the northwestern part of 2G.†While some sites favor deer and grouse, others offer poor habitat in terms of soil, forest growth, and browse. “In much of WMU 2G, the habitat is controlling the deer, not hunter harvest,†Putnam explained. “The commission’s study shows that hunters in 2G are only taking about eight percent of the deer each year.†Putnam provided a look at a state map with 2G highlighted in yellow. Drawn in ink over the map were dashed lines that proposed splitting 2G into three smaller units. “I even hesitate to show you this map, because it isn’t my job as a commissioner to draw new WMU lines,†Putnam said. Ken Kane, a private forester with Keith Horn, Inc., Consulting Foresters, agrees in part with Putnam and offers a reason for the habitat differences. “There is variance within 2G. The northwest end of 2G currently has the best habitat,†Kane said. “This is a result of logging practices, as well as forest type. We had a big wind event in that area in 2003 — the same storm that knocked down the Kinzua Railroad Bridge. Between 2004 and 2006, my company alone handled the salvage cutting of over 25,000 acres in the northwestern end of 2G. Other companies handled that much or more. Those thousands of acres are regenerating and are now all prime wildlife habitat. “I can see that the northwestern end of 2G can probably be broken out as a separate unit, merged into 2F, or maybe as a subunit,†Kane said. “However, they need to collect data for a year or two before reaching a decision.†Gustafson added, “There are definitely habitat differences within 2G, but there is a large overlap area where we find mixed oaks on the southern slopes and more of a northern hardwood forest on the north-facing slopes. We don’t just look at deer or forest type, we will also consider land use, land ownership and population density.†Capouillez concurred that his agency’s job is much more complex than just forests or deer. “We must remember that, ultimately, WMUs are for all wildlife, not just deer,†he said. “Our goal is for the WMU’s size and shape to allow us to hit as many goals (for as many different species) as possible. We have to look at many different things.†“I’m not saying, ‘Take this and eat it.’ I’m saying, ‘Let’s look at this.’ I just want to be helpful. I’m not the biologist in charge,†Putnam said. Kane is not sure that anything needs to change with 2G, but he remains open to exploring the concept. “I’m not totally certain that 2G should be split. I’m not so quick to jump on this idea, but I do agree that it needs to be looked at. If it is split, it needs to be done responsibly,†Kane said. At this juncture, Gustafson is not sure if glaring problems even exist with any WMUs, but he is willing to look into the possibility. Capouillez acknowledged that 2G is an extremely large WMU and noted that effort would be put into reevaluating the unit. PGC press secretary Jerry Feaser pointed out that easy landmark recognition was one of the requirements in setting up the WMU system. Using roads and rivers to delineate the borders of WMUs makes it easy for hunters in the field to recognize boundaries. He emphasized, “We also need to keep this in mind if we are going to change WMUs.†Gustafson added, “Maybe we can use a different river or roads to delineate 2G. We will look at all of the different layers of data that we now have and see if anything pops out.†I am glad that WMUs will again be reviewed. I understand the need for PGC biologists to have statistically valid numbers, but as to whether WMU 2G is too large or too diverse — that should be left up to the experts. It is encouraging that an intelligent discussion about the issue is beginning. Hopefully, it will end with the best decision being made for both wildlife and hunters.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 11:00:44
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You know what I would like to see the PGC do ??? when filling out a report card the county and township has to be filled in and reported... years ago a hunter could access that info (down to the township) and use that info to possibly help locate good deer populations and places to hunt deer that had good populations based on harvest figures. ... that info is no longer available. The best a hunter can do is find out how many were killed in a WMU.. and some of them are huge How much more work could it possible be to make the township and county info available once again.. ????
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/03/01 11:01:42
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DarDys
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 12:30:46
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I thought that the PGC went to WMU's for law enforcement purpose meaning that they had clear boundries -- roads, rivers, etc. -- rather than county boundries that are no as clearly marked.
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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wayne c
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 12:45:21
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Pgc pandering for a fee increase again. Doing as little as possible to try and get it. 2G split 3 ways is fine by me. But what of all the other units? Screw 'em i guess eh? And i understand 2g is one of the larger if not largest units...But a 3 way split would put the sections among the SMALLEST in the state. And most other units are too big period. And while i support smaller units, in the case of 2g, theres no telling the intent there either. Is it to even more intensively pound the deer herd by using the allocations more efficiently by targeting some of the new areas made even harder while keeping the other the same as is? I also find it interesting that a proposal for altering 2b is being considered. This proposal was started very antideer environmental extreme minded individual who should have zero say in anything. A pgc insider who is constantly lobbying Harrisburg for pgc and spreading antideer rhetoric. And based upon that, i dont think theres any surprise its being considered. But i think it wise to really take a long hard look at any potential motives. Pr stunt or agenda based tactical move? Not sure of the intent, though the idea may have some benefits for that area intended or not. Also i think a good question would be, if you make 2b, the unit boundaries around the more urban/suburban section smaller and target it intensively with one allocation, what happens to the other part of 2b? Would there be a separate small unit all its own thats oddly shaped and very small...or would it simply get added to neighboring unit making things worse there when its already too big to begin with?
post edited by wayne c - 2011/03/01 12:55:03
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Esox_Hunter
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 12:59:03
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I don't see why 2B couldn't be split up into 2 separate units with one focusing efforts on the urban areas and one in the more rural areas. There would also be no reason to merge the rural 2B with adjacent units. I would think tag allocations would still remain higher for rural 2B than surrounding units.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 14:02:03
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we read about all the problems in 2G and as soon as someone comes up with an idea it is called "Pgc pandering for a fee increase ".. Dang === did ya ever think it might be to make a few hunters happy ??????? BUT of course that would be a positive thought... GOD.. I have never encountered such NEGATIVE PEOPLE.. As for WMUs.. ==== TOO BIG ==== I continue to say.. GO BACK TO A COUNTY BY COUNTY and I have been communicating along that line all morning with Harrisburg PGC staff........
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psu_fish
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 14:17:19
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and what as the responce been from the Harrisburg staff?
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S-10
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 14:19:19
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Isn't WMU's some of that scientific deer management stuff all the PGC supporters were raving about and saying not to go back like it was before. County data is like it was before. (not to say I disagree with you)lets just turn the clock back 10 years on it all and kick the FSC back to California..
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wayne c
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 14:49:03
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Essox says: I don't see why 2B couldn't be split up into 2 separate units with one focusing efforts on the urban areas and one in the more rural areas. There would also be no reason to merge the rural 2B with adjacent units. I would think tag allocations would still remain higher for rural 2B than surrounding units. I would have no objections if that is indeed the route that was taken. And in fact if they would consider it, i think it absolutely should be done. Though i do think there should be no excuse, when we are gonna create new units that are so small...I see no reasonable excuse for them not to take any of the units, that are say... 1500 square miles or larger and also consider ways of making them smaller as well. Im sure quite a few valid arguments could be made for boundaries in quite a few units, and there are more than enough creeks roads etc. to do so. Doc says: "we read about all the problems in 2G and as soon as someone comes up with an idea it is called "Pgc pandering for a fee increase ".. Dang === did ya ever think it might be to make a few hunters happy, and also where the units are far too large???????" Why make "a few" people happy doc? 2g is one unit. There are quite a few more in the state where alot of their hunters are not "happy", and the units far too large.
post edited by wayne c - 2011/03/01 14:54:37
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 14:53:24
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Isn't WMU's some of that scientific deer management stuff all the PGC supporters were raving about Well that certainly has NEVER been the case for me.. and makes no sense to me either .. If you did not know or could not figure out a county line why would you be able (or care) about any other type borders... as for the "stuff" about similar habitats,, forests, etc... not seeing that myself in most WMUs..... If it (counties)worked in years past for the most part === why change it... there's NO WAY the area around here and the area next to the New York state border are the same and I'm sure they could not support thea (or even the ANF itself) will effect me miles and miles away... I have said all along they are too big and as a result NOT HUNTER FRIENDLY... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- PSU ===== So far not liking my ideas What I'm really after today is for them to release the county and township harvest figures as well as the WMU totals... like they used to... where you could get the numbers and make comparisons or decisions based on them.. .. heck.. that's how I picked half my spots back in the 1980s for areas here in Jefferson County I used the township figures.. I'm hearing the info I want is collected and available to STAFF.... but not released to the general public.. for fear "they" would not understand it and interpret it for something is isn't like they do now with "figures" and the areas are to small to use those harvest figures for herd management plans or ideas.... I'm totally thinking === guys could use the info and maybe find new and better areas to hunt within their WMUs.... all you get now is a total for the entire area... and some of them are REALLY BIG !! well back to E-mailing
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 15:00:58
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Why make "a few" people happy doc? 2g is one unit. There are quite a few more in the state where alot of their hunters are not "happy", and the units far too large It's called "A START" ... any and all change has to have a starting point ... and with small "steps" they can be monitored more easily... so why jump out there and be your "old negative self" rather than recognize someone trying to make a "start" ????? I guess it's just that I can't figure you negative guys out, it appears you can find nothing good in anything .. unless it fits you or your agenda 100%
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wayne c
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 16:21:54
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"It's called "A START" ..." No its not a "start" when nothing further has been promised, planned or proposed! Also when this "plan" started, we didnt have a "start" like that, it was full bore ahead! With no supporting data, (and still none a decade later) yet a bazillion tags, longer seasons, statewide blanket reductions etc. lol. So please do forgive my pessimism.
post edited by wayne c - 2011/03/01 16:25:53
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 16:38:22
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and yet not everyone is complaining .. just the same ones over and over... Interesting.. and yes there is data you just choose to not accept or believe it.... you side with those that share your opinions.. and I with those that I agree with ...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/03/01 16:40:27
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S-10
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 16:42:23
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And the same few pretending everything is right with the world as long as their is still a doe coming to feed during hunting season.
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deerfly
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 16:42:46
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“WMU 2G illustrates a lot of the problems that we have with deer management,†commissioner Dave Putnam said at the commission’s Feb. 1 meeting. From the hardwoods in the north to the mixed oaks in the southern part of 2G, the habitat varies significantly, according to Putnam. The habitat also differs somewhat from east to west. He would like to split up the unit into smaller areas based mostly on forest type. Putnam, who lives in Centre Hall, often hunts deer in the northwest part of 2G, where he has a hunting camp. That statement proves beyond a doubt that Putnam doesn't realize that our herd is not being managed based on the carry capacity of the habitat. He doesn't realize that even if the area around his camp has some of the best habitat in the state,which I highly doubt is true, it doesn't matter to the PGC because they claim our herd is being managed on the rate of forest regeneration,rather than the carrying capacity of the habitat. It truly is sad that those making the decisions don't even understand the plan.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 16:57:52
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And the same few pretending everything is right with the world as long as their is still a doe coming to feed during hunting season. And many guys that spend the time trying to find the areas that the deer are feeding and bedding in rather than just complaining that there is no longer one behind every tree will contiune to believe that the "sky is not falling" when it comes to deer hunting in Pa...... and for the most part will continue to be successful at it... If 300,000+ deer hunters are still shooting deer (in a bad year) it can't be all that bad... and I know for fact that not all who are not successful are complaining and blaming their lack of success on the PGC...... Had I not bought a crossbow... for example.. I would not have shot a deer this year for the first time in over 20 years.. could I blame the PGC === or lack of deer in the area ... NOPE.. I could only blame myself... or the deer for not co=operating and standing still ..
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/03/01 17:01:08
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wayne c
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 17:08:49
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"and yet not everyone is complaining .. just the same ones over and over... Interesting.. " Not everyone just most of those that hunt. And not just on the internet. Just because they have no desire to be lied to yet again by pgc at the antideer theatrical aubuon/forester/pgc get togethers after 10 years of the same, doesnt mean they arent complaining. "And many guys that spend the time trying to find the areas that the deer are feeding and bedding in rather than just complaining that there is no longer one behind every tree will contiune to believe that the "sky is not falling" when it comes to deer hunting in Pa...... and for the most part will continue to be successful at it..." You forgot some. There are guys like me and others who are successful, do what it takes, and still dont support the sham plan because it isnt what should be going on and we can look past our own selfishness to see what is and what isnt "good" for the deer herd, fellow hunters, and the sport of hunting.
post edited by wayne c - 2011/03/01 17:12:23
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 17:19:32
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Well with hunting taking a hit nationwide as a whole, I don't think it is something anyone can blame on our PGC or any other state's agency .. it(hunting)just is not as meaningful, acceptable, or of interest to as many folks as it use to be.. that should be our #1 concern.. not how many deer we have in any one given area... or how many someone feels we should have... or who knows best at managing deer... how do we save our sport... that's the question for many of us... and putting deer behind every tree again will not do that...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/03/01 17:20:06
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wayne c
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 17:22:37
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how do we save our sport... that's the question for many of us... I dont know the answer doc, but i will offer a hint. Slaughtering the deer herd to numbers hunters arent happy at all with in the name of trillium and hobblebush is not the way. No matter how many hunters are lost nationally or in Pa, more are lost on top of what would have been lost otherwise here in pa due to a failing deer plan. Less satisfaction is less satisfaction. Satisfaction matters. If we try to address other problems that cant be addressed or that arent as significant, its meaningless if we ignore the #1 problem in that its very significant and its one that we can actually do something about.
post edited by wayne c - 2011/03/01 17:27:55
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S-10
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 17:33:09
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Doc just likes to falsely claim that the only ones against the DMP plan are the ones that are the least successful. It's the only was he can hope to win the argument since all the data proves that it has been a failure in every way. The areas with too many deer still have too many, they still don't have regeneration, it has not produced the bucks as claimed, it has led to a loss of over 200,0000 hunters, it has led to the enviromentalists having more control. Sorry Doc, I to am a very successful buck hunter and the DMP suc-s. If you were not so dependent on those folks for the information for your site IMO you would not be trying to defend their actions.
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S-10
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 17:40:39
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Well with hunting taking a hit nationwide as a whole, I don't think it is something anyone can blame on our PGC or any other state's agency . Here is an interesting tidbit for you to think about. The QDMA claims we have excellant deer hunting and are one of the leaders in the nation since 2001. How do you explain why our out of state license sales have dropped by 24% since 2001 while Ohio's out of state licenses have more than doubled since 2001. Seems like our friends from other states are telling us something. Is anyone listening.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 17:49:18
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You guys continue to blame the loss of hunters on deer population, that is your opinion.. there are no studies or figures that I know of to support that here in Pa as to that being the #1 reason.. it is at best an opinion.. many have other opinions on why guys are quitting but you just do not give the other reasons much credit because of your agenda for wanting MORE DEER .. thinking that will solved the problem.. and I feel that is not true simply because other states are losing hunters also, maybe not the percentage as Pa.. but they never had the numbers we had to start with.. we are still one of the few states with harvests of over 300,000 deer state wide and folks can't be happy with that ???? look at the total number of hunters and the number of successful one... what other sport allows that much success based on the number of folks playing ???? just increasing deer numbers to get a few more successful hunters is not going to save our sport... I hate sounding negative about it... but it(hunting) is what it is.. and that's on the decline period... and that should be the focus of today's hunter's === trying to preserve the sport.. not how many deer we have or need..... hunters numbers were starting to decline before HR/AR and folks just want to over look that fact... and that is part of why I say it is NOT all about the number of deer.......
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 17:54:22
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How do you explain why our out of state license sales have dropped by 24% since 2001 WOW a simple question.... sales have dropped because of selling out of doe tags.. and cutting allocations.. my neighbors from Ohio have not been able to get a tag for here in years.... BUT are still "crazy" enough to come from Ohio with their non- resident license to TRY to shoot a PA Buck.. but they are "old timers" and it's a tradition.. they still come without the doe tag they used to get so they could shoot 2 deer for their Ohio dollars..... new hunters in other states that can not shoot either sex (maybe get 2 deer for their money) probably are not interested . they do not have the "tradition thing"... they just want to get the most for their money...and 1 deer may not do that... Maybe the price of gas plays a part, cost of a motel, more posted land than ever ... lots of reasons other than any lack of deer.........
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/03/01 18:05:15
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Esox_Hunter
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 18:01:30
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ORIGINAL: S-10 Well with hunting taking a hit nationwide as a whole, I don't think it is something anyone can blame on our PGC or any other state's agency . Here is an interesting tidbit for you to think about. The QDMA claims we have excellant deer hunting and are one of the leaders in the nation since 2001. How do you explain why our out of state license sales have dropped by 24% since 2001 while Ohio's out of state licenses have more than doubled since 2001. Seems like our friends from other states are telling us something. Is anyone listening. Ohio has achieved a cult status as a big buck state in the last 10 years. I would attribute that to a significant (not the only) reason why nonres licenses have doubled. I am not certain of when this happened, but I think it used to be that Ohio landowners did not need to buy licenses to hunt in the past, much like WV. Depending on when this took place, this could also be a reason why sales have increased over in the flatlands. Take a look at our neighbor to the south, WV, what do their recent license sales say?
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S-10
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 18:09:05
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Doc-- Do you realize how foolish you look trying to claim that many out of state hunters buy a non-resident license plus all the extra money on gas, motel, etc to come here to shoot a DOE. You do live in a different world. MOST people hunt out of state to kill bucks and the majority I know don't even buy a doe license. It's just too much expense and trouble for a doe. You really do need to get around a bit more. How often do you hunt another state? Pa hunters go to other states to shoot bucks. Besides, compare out present day number of doe tags issued to the number issued in the 80's and 90's and your claim won't hold water.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 18:12:09
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I wonder if folks that live in the southwest part of Pa and who traveled "up here" to hunt deer now can stay home and hunt successful and even travel to WV or Ohio (closer than Potter County for example = thinking the old days here)and enjoy deer hunting and still be closer to home... just wondering if that would increase sales in the other near-by states...????
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S-10
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 18:21:51
(permalink)
Ohio has achieved a cult status as a big buck state in the last 10 years Your forgetting that QDMA was pointing to Pa as having a large buck population rivaling the rest of the nation in their testimony before the BOC. If that were true or our buck hunting was as good as claimed then the hunters should be flocking here instead of deserting what we did have. As far as Ohio, they have actually taken a back seat to some of the other mid-west states in the last decade as far as the serious hunters go. I started hunting Ohio in the 80's, followed the masses to Illinois in the early 90's, then the serious hunters worked Kanasas and a few others. Pa hunters make up the largest % of hunters who hit Ohio anymore. If the hunters in the know who will spend the money are leaving Pa for other states that means we don't have the number of deer or the size of deer to interest them.
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Dr. Trout
Pro Angler
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 18:22:25
(permalink)
Doc-- Do you realize how foolish you look trying to claim that many out of state hunters buy a non-resident license plus all the extra money on gas, motel, etc to come here to shoot a DOE. That is not what I was saying.. and facts prove I was right in saying what I did.. I was answering your question on why sales have fallen from in the past.. and YES I know many guys from around here that came here for the deer season and the three day does season.. they wanted 2 deer... look how many non- resident tags we used to sell.. someone wanted to come here to shoot does..... not everyone is a trophy buck hunter.. there is such a thing as guys who like venison.. lots of it... I can count 8 camps within a 5 mile area that are still owned by Ohio people and have only half the guys there in deer seasons because of not being able to get 2 deer in Pa now like they used to for their dollars... maybe you need to get out more and talk to those that are not totally in agreement with your agenda... or even look at the non-resident antlerlesss sales from the past... now how many can not get even one because of selling out where their camps in Pa and cut allocations...
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S-10
Pro Angler
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 18:29:10
(permalink)
Doc--Deer Hunters go out of state to hunt Bucks---they either go to states with BIG BUCKS or to states with LOTS OF BUCKS. They flock to states with both big and lots. Pennsylvania now has neither or the non-residents would be here.
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deerfly
Pro Angler
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RE: Commisssioner Putnam on 2G ===
2011/03/01 18:32:08
(permalink)
Whether you realize it or not, you just proved that the new DMP was responsible for the loss of non-resident hunters. The previous DMP produced enough deer in 2G for the PGC to issue 52K antlerless tags in 2003 and 2004 But,due to HR the PGC only issued 15,210 tags in 2010, so non-resident hunters had no chance of getting a doe tag due to HR in 2G!!!
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