waited 12 years before they changed to a spread restriction.

And we all know that spread restrictions would be a disaster in Pa... and would NEVER work..

I mean just look..

we already have guys complaining they can't see brow tines in the 4 point areas... .....

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

waited 12 years before they changed to a spread restriction.

And we all know that spread restrictions would be a disaster in Pa... and would NEVER work..

I mean just look..

we already have guys complaining they can't see brow tines in the 4 point areas... .....

Why would spread restrictions be a disaster? If we are good enough to determine if a buck has brow tines walking broadside at 50 yds and determine if all the tines are at least 1" long,why aren't we good enough to tell the difference,for example, between, a 11" spread and a 12" spread. The PGC didn't care about the hunters that were satisfied with shooting a spike or a Y before ARs were implemented, so why would they care if even more hunters had to pass on a buck if they couldn't be sure the spread was big enough to be legal?

Why would spread restrictions be a disaster? If we are good enough to determine if a buck has brow tines walking broadside at 50 yds and determine if all the tines are at least 1" long,why aren't we good enough to tell the difference,for example, between, a 11" spread and a 12" spread. The PGC didn't care about the hunters that were satisfied with shooting a spike or a Y before ARs were implemented, so why would they care if even more hunters had to pass on a buck if they couldn't be sure the spread was big enough to be legal?

Again proof from BT he does not read --- just types replies...

If you read what I wrote you would see I already answered that.. guys are complaining they can't see the brow tines..

your example is silly at best...

brow tines having to be an inch.. compared to nothing an inch is not that hard to determine.. if you can see the brow tines and regular tines you are trying to count ... same for tines-
an inch is not that hard to identify...

I'm sure 90 % of the folks here can tell an inch tine from a "no tine" .

Now how many here could tell what the spread is within an inch on any deer... I'd say maybe 10% at best... so if the limit was 13 inches, how many 12 or smaller would get killed and left in the woods.... thought you wanted to increase the deer herd ????

There are folks out there shooting illegal deer and leaving them now, spread restrictions would double that.... my understanding is that the guys getting caught with illegal bucks now (protected ones)are ones with not enough points... not so much the "one inch" rule.. They do not have the points period.. I know of NO ONE who truthfully got fined for not being and inch long.. stories yes.. but not truth.. wrong tag, no tag, no license, road hunting, not enough points at all i.e. 4 point (2 on a side) in a 3 on a side WMU.. but no === not one =
it's not an inch so you're busted case ....


I,m sure a WCO can understand seeing how a person coul mis identify a half-inch tine from an inch one and am sure the majoirty of those not quite and inch were given a break...

now no tine.. no break..

how would a WCO give a break to an honest mistake with spreads... 12.5 mistake .. busted... 12 mistake... 11.75 inches busted... 11.5.. 10.. maybe 9 busted ?????

ask for spread restrictions... and watch Pa deer hunting fall completely apart... 200K lost hunters would be a drop in the bucket... I have never heard a Pa deer hunter say they would want spread restrictions. In fact that is one suggestion I have heard many say would cause them to quite for bucks completely... ...






if ya made the required spread maybe 4 inches it might work ....

You really are absolutely clueless.

ME ?????

I can't believe you could even suggest OR THINK it is easier or even AS EASY to determine if a spread is 8 inches or 9 inches compare to if the tine is at least one inch long..

remember NO ONE is saying they have to decide if the tine is 3 or 4 inches long... just that it is 1 inch...

you are truly unbelievable,, you just want to argue for the sake of arguing with everyone..


how anyone could suggest determining a spread would be as easy or easier than a required one inch tine is beyond my comprehension.. ???

can't wait to hear what your few supporters here on fisherie have to say about your "take" on spread being easier or a better sysytem for PA....


I guess it's just your nature and I can see why some folks think you may be "crazy"

What do you support, Deerfly?

Ironhed

ORIGINAL: deerfly

An inch is still an inch whether it is the difference in spread or the length of a tine. Furthermore I don't support ARs or a spread restrictions. Either one is not based on a sound biological need and therefore both restrictions simply appeal to rack hunters.

There are certainly easier and more difficult measurements to judge. With the brow tines its simple, as Doc Stated. If you can see a brow tine on a deer that is a point, and not just a bump, then its an inch. Measurements need reference points. For a brow tine, the reference is basically whether or not a brow tine is present. I would hope you can agree telling the difference between 0 and 1inches is easier than 11 and 12inches.

With spread, what do we use as a reference? Ears? What if they're laid completely back. Width of skull across the eyes?

ORIGINAL: deerfly

The best solution is to repeal the current ARs and return to the 3" spike rule.

But then we are protecting spikes. Wouldn't want them to pass on their inferior genes !

outdoor ...

why is it you enjoy making yourself look like a "butthead" when you post attacks at me ???

Fisherie ???? Heck I though I was logged on to Fish USA.com ! Maybe you are also clueless where you are at too ??

I get here thru fisherie.com.... even have a link here that way on my message board...

you must get here thru FishUSA.com.. thus the url of = forums.fishusa.com

so nope == not clueless at all... just don't go around attacking folks when I don't know what I am talking about... BTW === ever see this ???



google search.. "fisherie" ... I feel lucky... and see where you go ???

ORIGINAL: retired guy

   How many deer hunters have shot more than a couple of decent sized racks in an entire lifetime of hunting- and then they are probably mounting a 2 1/2 year old.
  How and heck do you think that guy with so little experience is going to make any kind of guestimate on an inch or two of horn- any kind of horn, accurately.
   But then how do you know the hunter has EVER seen a decent rack for comparison.
   My recollections of PA is that it is wooded and brushy in most good deer hunting areas. NOT open plain with standing still deer for one to put a spotting scope on for a while and then ponder as to wether an inch or two exists or not.
  Have shot well over my fair share of nice mature bucks as I target them, do my year round scouting and go where they are and am willing to pass all season waiting for a big guy.   Can say from experience in many states and varied topography that its a tough job even for an experienced hunter to judge inches in most realistic hunting conditions. GROUND SHRINKAGE is a most common ocurance.
  Laws with such minute conditions are silly and beg for honest error, not to mention nagging post season questions as to wether or not you should have shot or not  that time  you were sure but not positive of horn size.

 
RG,
When in doubt, you don't shoot.  Remember, most of theses guys are complaining about not seeing enough deer while out on stand (not whether or not they got one, right GUYS) so if they pass on a questionable buck (and they don't have a doe tag or refuse to use one), then they'll get more time afield and a chance to see more deer.  Their hunting "experience" will hopefully be more enjoyable because they will get a chance to see more deer while spending more time afield.
 
And for deerfly to equate judging spread with judging points...hmm...I'd have to question his judgement.
 
Personally, I wouldn't mind a spread and point restriction combined (4 to a side > 1" or spread greater than 14") statewide but that is probably asking for a little too much.
 

Killing a doe first is like fishing without bait

How's that...
I go out to shoot a deer...

I shoot a deer

and go home...

a successsful hunt


I doubt I'd be successful fishing without bait...

maybe it's just an expression I have never heard before thus do not understand ????

no harm.. I just could not figure out what you meant, now I think you were trying to say that the female I shoot may have drawn in a buck.. thus using her as bait... if that's it I get it now....

I just never cared what I shot .. like most of the guys I hang with ... sure we all would like a buck and hope that's what shows up first .. BUT... we're happy getting whatever we can...

Folks have to stop and think just how big a square mile is... It's not a small area and 10 - 15 deer can hide in an area not much bigger than a mobile home... They are famous for not moving and standing still and while walking many hunter would have a hard time seeing them... now with 200K less hunters in the woods on opening day the deer are not as pressured and do not have to stay moving to survive... they can seek refugee and stay put almost as long as they would like...

I have a complete video of a female that I spooked and she stands PERFECTLY still.. not a single movement for over 10 minutes while the camera rolls... NOTHING not a tail flick, no ear movement, NOTHING.... just perfectly still

I'm about 100% positive I know where "my deer" go... and in my younger days I was successful in harvesting males and females there... as I approach my senior years and do not wish to travel into those sanctuaries I have to rely on catching deer moving from point A to those hiding place in the "hollow" and with an average of 6 less hunters hunting in "my square mile" of SGL lands I can't rely on them pushing deer around all day either... this year I saw the deer just never got a shot at one standing still... I call it just BAD LUCK for this year.. I was happy with the deer sightings just not so happy one would not stand still til the season was almost over...BUT I never gave up hope or desire to keeping trying....

Folks have to adapt to a new style of hunting for many... less deer and less hunters....EQUALS === greater odds of not being successful without a lot of work....

Only returning the favor DR TROUT ! You seen to have a short memory...

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

outdoor ...

why is it you enjoy making yourself look like a "butthead" when you post attacks at me ???

Fisherie ???? Heck I though I was logged on to Fish USA.com ! Maybe you are also clueless where you are at too ??

I get here thru fisherie.com.... even have a link here that way on my message board...

you must get here thru FishUSA.com.. thus the url of = forums.fishusa.com

so nope == not clueless at all... just don't go around attacking folks when I don't know what I am talking about... BTW === ever see this ???

google search.. "fisherie" ... I feel lucky... and see where you go ???

While the PGC has have done many dumb things in the past a SPREAD restriction would surly put them over the top and yet more hunters will leave the state to hunt or simply quite all together.

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

And from on the ground in my 3 point area I do not have to have the deer looking at or away from me many time ... I can count the 3 up and pull the trigger.... for a SPREAD restriction.. I would have to have the deer looking at me or away from me, neither of which I feel is a good shot ... especially in archery season... so a broad side standing deer or one walking past broadside, the ground hunter would not be able to see the spread thus not shoot ...

exactly why I said that type restriction would increase illegal killed bucks in Pa...

" I can see 4 up plain as day... but can't see the spread ... I have to let him go ".... yeah right....

And 3 up in the 3 pt. area would be a 7 or 8 pt. Which means you would have to pass on every 5 pt. or 6 pt..

so a broad side standing deer or one walking past broadside, the ground hunter would not be able to see the spread thus not shoot ...

And he wouldn't be able to see brow tines, which was exactly the point I was making. THANKS.