Dr. Trout
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Deer in 2F ===
I have posted many times that I felt the deer population in this area was great.. I guess I am not alone... at our sportsmen's meeting tonight (30 people in attendance) I read all the BOC recommendations for the April meeting... Everyone agreed with most of them.. It was about 50-50 on the split season for 2F and most felt rather than "3-up" they should just go to a 3 point restriction state wide We voted on the PFSC resolutions for the spring convention... we voted against removing the county treasurers from the antlerless application process and voted in favor of allowing seniors to have the same rules for bucks as junior hunters... so it appears most here are not afraid of harvesting more deer in this area..
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/02/16 22:30:56
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 00:49:00
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What age group were the 30 guys ? How can they vote on state wide when I,m betting they are not from state wide area's or have hunted them? Letting Jr's shoot small bucks keep them interested in the sport. A senior should honor all regs same as everyone else. Many seniors are in better shape than you think. A disable permit would let them hunt any buck without restrictions if it's a health issue.Some areas in 2F still suffer from HR. WMU are too large to to say herd is stable.
post edited by Outdoor Adventures - 2011/02/17 02:58:29
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 10:35:14
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What age group were the 30 guys ? It was not 30 guys, we have women that are sportsmen too that attend the meetings  5 = females 4 = senior guys 12 = in the 40s 9 = in the 50s A senior should honor all regs same as everyone else The resolution about seniors and antler restriction is presented by an Armstrong County Club ... The number of senior deer hunters has been steadily declining. The loss of these veteran hunters does not bode well for the sport or the PGC, and can be avoided.
....................
This situation could be remedied by putting senior hunters in the same category as junior hunters regarding antler restriction. This would do much to retain these veteran deer hunters in our ranks. Senior hunters have endured the rigors of life, been loyal and paid their dues to the sport. It is fitting that they be accorded this consideration.
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/02/17 10:45:18
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rmcmillen09
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 10:42:39
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3 on 1 side better than 3 up I,LL take it.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 11:20:17
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How can they vote on state wide when I,m betting they are not from state wide area's or have hunted them? This was our local club's opinions... I will turn them into the PFSC county delegate he will add them to the other 2 clubs in Jefferson County... then he will use that result for ONE VOTE for Jefferson County at the convention along with all the other county delegates with ONE VOTE each for their areas.... then ONE VOTE is presented for all the individual members of the PFSC which are turned into the delegate for individual members. and counts as ONE VOTE..... Thus you have a consensus of the clubs across the whole state and all the individual members across the state...
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rmcmillen09
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 11:30:30
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Like to see a state wide poll for all PA. hunters to lay at their feet. 2 or 3 simple questions when we purchase our licenses .
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 11:42:40
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I agree it would be nice... but it woud accomplish NOTHING.... even if every single hunter voted... some would say the PGC lied and did not give the "true" results.. they know better... they (the PGC) fabricated the results to show what they (PGC) wanted the poll to show... Look how some folks do not believe the polls and figures that are out there now... some folks just have to disagree no matter what....
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Fishtamer
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 13:23:03
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Lots of deer in 2F and talk of split season. Isn't that contadictory?
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DarDys
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 13:35:19
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Just out of curiosity, how successful were those 30 folks in harveting a buck before AR (every year, every other year, every 3 years, every 5 years, etc.? Since AR? Any deer before? Any deer since?
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 14:37:27
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Lots of deer in 2F and talk of split season. Isn't that contadictory? The BOC decided to spilt the season in 2F not us or the PGC.... A couple (property owners with trespassing issues)favored the idea thinking it would reduce the number of hunters and thus the number of trespassers for that first week ... one would even like to see it go back to 3 days... with the 2 weeks season they have twice the guys trespassing that they had before almost every day... and by using ATVs they are almost impossible to catch... some thought it would save some deer but agreed they may just get shot the next week or in archery... some did not care either way, they felt (LIKE ME) it won't matter to them.. and of course we do have a few (2 guys)of the "the deer are gone and we need to re-build the herd" but one of them (the senior member last night) does not even hunt and hasn't for years, he just likes seeing lots of deer and that reminds him of the old days when he did hunt... and had to (like always) add the "you guys kill a doe and are killing three deer for next year"....He brings that up EVERY time the deer subject comes up .. Great old timer though !!!!!! Reading the BOC plans was not a vote type thing that every gave an opinion on... and many did not say anything -- my 50-50 statement was from those that were actually discussing the idea of a split season...... so yes we have a few complainers but as a whole our club is pretty happy campers with the deer hunting in our area..... Just out of curiosity, how successful were those 30 folks in harvesting a buck before AR (every year, every other year, every 3 years, every 5 years, etc.? Since AR? Any deer before? Any deer since? I can say this === that I personally do not know ANYONE that killed bucks every year or every other year repeatly before or after 2001 at the club, at work, customers, camps, etc I just read about them on the Internet  I can't really answer Dars questions .. I never asked those questions .. I can say that last month (only 25 in attendance) I asked === how many enjoyed their deer season and the vast majority said they did and 20 were successful... how many were happy with the number of deer they saw while hunting 22 said they were happy.. how many "trips" did you take this year hunting deer... 3 trips in rifle was the average 5 trips in archery was the average and only 6 guys hunted the late season with 2 days being the average there.. I sent those results to Harrisburg just for fun and got a thank you back BTW.. just for fun last night I asked how many of those there DID NOT use or have access to a computer.. any guesses ???? the answwer was 8 do not have or use a computer and all have no desire to ... 
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rmcmillen09
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 15:17:59
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Whats the difference between the P.G.C. and some dictatorship that makes up their own fabricated results . There is no difference!!! How about it fellow Americans we goona let them know what we want, or let them tell us what we want .
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World Famous
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 15:40:48
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Doc, your club is way above average. 80% success is way higher than the statewide numbers. No wonder they are happy the way it is now. Congrats to all the successful hunters there. Still, the # of bucks taken this year and the frequency of the hunters killing bucks may tell a different story...WF
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 16:02:50
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You must remember that last year the harvests were for the most part terrible around here... especially the first day for bucks ... I'm aware of only 5 bucks being taken by club members last year... and almost everyone got at least one antlerless... last year the feelings were a poor season.. this year a good one.... I will say one thing about our club..we are hunters and sportsmen/woman... we do not have a bar, dances, social events, strip tickets, etc... Here's an article I wrote about our club that was published in the PFSC ON TARGET magazine... Warsaw Sportsmen’s Association
The Warsaw Sportsmen’s Association was founded in
1960 on Williams Road in Jefferson County, about half way between the
towns of Brookville and Brockway. Initially, the club focused on raising
young pheasants to be released for local hunters. In the 1970’s, they
were among the first in the state to use limestone to help neutralize the
acidity of a local trout stream. The club is currently involved
in programs that will sustain the precious resources of the
Commonwealth, and educate our youth about conservation. They are
involved in the Adopt-A-Highway program, and provide a free meal to
volunteers following a highway clean-up. They’ve placed 55 gallon
drums along a local trout stream for anglers to throw their trash in while
fishing. Warsaw’s members also help stock the stream and others in
the area with buckets and floats. The club holds several turkey shoots in
the spring and several more in the fall.
Like most others, the members of Warsaw recognize that interest in
hunting and fishing are declining, so
they are taking steps to recruit new members to our way of life. The
Warsaw Township Sportsmen’s Association has been involved in
trying to get youth interested in hunting and fishing for over 20 years.
Additionally, the club helps sponsor the Jefferson County Youth Field
Days, and has been holding Hunter Education Classes for over 20 years.
This year they were surprised by the over whelming interest in their
Hunter Education class; they actually had to schedule a second class for
November 21-22. This was the first time a second class was needed to
get all the interested youth trained.
The classes are held at the club, and the club and volunteers serve a free
meal to everyone who attends each session.
While the club is small, the work they undertake is not. Their
dedicated and selfless volunteers work tirelessly to promote our
outdoor heritage and keep our youth interested in the outdoor sports.
Warsaw Sportsmen’s business meetings are on the 1st Wednesday
of each month and another meeting is held on the 3rd Wednesday.
Thesecond meeting is dedicated to topics related to hunting, fishing,
and other outdoor activities and issues.
Meetings always start at 8:00p.m.
All are welcome to attend.
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/02/17 16:09:50
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World Famous
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 16:20:17
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Sounds like a nice club. Just misguided about the deer  ..WF
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 16:23:03
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DarDys
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 16:33:45
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The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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DarDys
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 16:35:05
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ORIGINAL: World Famous
Doc, your club is way above average. 80% success is way higher than the statewide numbers. No wonder they are happy the way it is now. Congrats to all the successful hunters there. Still, the # of bucks taken this year and the frequency of the hunters killing bucks may tell a different story...WF
What is the average success rate in the state? 15%?
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 17:03:48
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You have to remember like I said == we're hunters I'm sure if I just got 25 local people together or surveyed a camp with 25 guys it would not be such a high harvest rate... these were different guys hunting different ares of 2F, some private, some public lands hunted.. a variety of good hunters all gathered at the same spot at the same time for a meeting about hunting & fishing... there was not anyone sitting around drinking at the bar or trying to pick up women and tossing in their opinions..
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/02/17 17:20:03
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 17:16:04
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Do you ban members if they don't fully agree with the persons mentioned above? You know what was interesting... when RSB came to give his deer presentation we were a "little' concerned on how it would be received.. I tried to assure the WCOs it would be good and they would see our group respects WCOs and the PGC as a whole.. the place was packed and I recall only one or possibly 2 giving him or the local WCO any "grief" or complaining about the DMP... now of course the guy I mentioned about "killing 3 for next year" was there and made that claim... and RSB handled that well.... Most sat there and listened, asked questions and came away feeling like they had learned something not just about deer hunting but about deer themselves.. ... and were VERY supportive and appreciative of RSB's presentation... RSB is free to comment on the program and the clubs reception of it if he pleases...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/02/17 17:17:17
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Esox_Hunter
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 17:46:44
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ORIGINAL: rmcmillen09
Whats the difference between the P.G.C. and some dictatorship that makes up their own fabricated results . There is no difference!!! How about it fellow Americans we goona let them know what we want, or let them tell us what we want .
Good idea. Just who do these biologists think they are anyways? I am sure you are far more qualified to run the DMP, right?
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rmcmillen09
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 18:02:02
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Esox Hunter your against an across the board poll ? What the pa. hunters agree with or not has nothing to do with me running anything nice attack though. We will take your response as a yes (in agreement with) Right?
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Esox_Hunter
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 18:32:38
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What are you talking about "across the board poll"?
Anyways, what difference does it make what I think? It doesn't change the fact that giving the general public and hunters control of the DMP is a terrible idea.
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rmcmillen09
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 18:41:29
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satisfied with current Deer Management Program vote 1 in agreement still
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 18:47:04
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giving the general public and hunters control of the DMP is a terrible idea.
Essox === Not sure if you saw this "over there" this morning or not but I got it in an E-mail about this new house bill... introduced by Mike Hanna The part I put in bold worries me.. sounds like it may open up decisions to pressure from more folks that are not hunters or hunting friendly.... EQUAL === i.e. = econmics in an area is equal to having a huntable population... ???? I hope we will keep an eye on this one.... HOUSE BILL
No. 691 Session of
2011
INTRODUCED BY HANNA, BRENNAN, CALTAGIRONE, CAUSER, CONKLIN, FABRIZIO, GEORGE, HESS, MILLARD, MIRABITO, MURPHY AND MURT, FEBRUARY 15, 2011
REFERRED TO COMMITTEE ON GAME AND FISHERIES, FEBRUARY 15, 2011
AN ACT
Amending Title 34 (Game) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, in Pennsylvania Game Commission, further providing for organization of commission and for its powers and duties.
The General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania hereby enacts as follows:
Section 1. Sections 301(a) and 322(b) of Title 34 of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes are amended to read:
§ 301. Organization of commission.
(a) Composition. The independent administrative commission known as the Pennsylvania Game Commission shall consist of eight competent citizens of this Commonwealth who shall be well informed on the subject of wildlife conservation and restoration, who are not current or former employees or deputy conservation officers of the commission and who shall be appointed by the Governor, by and with the advice and consent of two-thirds of the elected members of the Senate.
* * *
§ 322. Powers and duties of commission.
* * *
(b) General powers and duties. The commission has the power and duty to take all actions necessary for the administration and enforcement of this title. In all wildlife management decisions, the commissioners shall be guided by the principles of best management practices utilizing scientific analysis supported by verifiable data with equal regard for the social, economic and recreational impacts of their decisions
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Esox_Hunter
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 19:09:35
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ORIGINAL: rmcmillen09
satisfied with current Deer Management Program vote 1 in agreement still
Again, what are you talking about?
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Esox_Hunter
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 19:13:01
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Thanks for the info Doc.
The bolded statement sure leaves the door wide open for speculation. I guess it all will depend on how "with equal regard" will be interpretted, should this go through.
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wayne c
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 19:50:44
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HOUSE BILL
No. 691 Session of
2011
INTRODUCED BY HANNA, BRENNAN, CALTAGIRONE, CAUSER, CONKLIN, FABRIZIO, GEORGE, HESS, MILLARD, MIRABITO, MURPHY AND MURT, FEBRUARY 15, 2011
REFERRED TO COMMITTEE ON GAME AND FISHERIES, FEBRUARY 15, 2011
AN ACT
Amending Title 34 (Game) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, in Pennsylvania Game Commission, further providing for organization of commission and for its powers and duties.
The General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania hereby enacts as follows:
Section 1. Sections 301(a) and 322(b) of Title 34 of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes are amended to read:
§ 301. Organization of commission.
(a) Composition. The independent administrative commission known as the Pennsylvania Game Commission shall consist of eight competent citizens of this Commonwealth who shall be well informed on the subject of wildlife conservation and restoration, who are not current or former employees or deputy conservation officers of the commission and who shall be appointed by the Governor, by and with the advice and consent of two-thirds of the elected members of the Senate.
* * *
§ 322. Powers and duties of commission.
* * *
(b) General powers and duties. The commission has the power and duty to take all actions necessary for the administration and enforcement of this title. In all wildlife management decisions, the commissioners shall be guided by the principles of best management practices utilizing scientific analysis supported by verifiable data with equal regard for the social, economic and recreational impacts of their decisions Its a good bill and would encourage any "hunters" to support it. There is no problem in wording, this bill has simply been put under the microscope "OVER THERE" as you put it doc, and those who are trying to pick it apart are the same well known antideer characters that DONT WANT hunters to have any more say in matters, or for that matter any changes at all that do not equate to more deer. . All it does is makes hunting/hunters actually legally be a priority not to be ignored as has often been the case in recent years.
post edited by wayne c - 2011/02/17 19:51:44
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wayne c
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 19:53:30
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I agree about the interpretation thing essox, the same could be said about portions of wording in many bills that arent deemed problematic. I think the intent is pretty clear. Those doc spoke of that are speaking out against this bill wouldnt support it period and it wouldnt matter how it were worded. Same few vocal hard-core environmentalist types that have done damage control "over there" for a decade now by using that forum as their propaganda center.
post edited by wayne c - 2011/02/17 19:58:46
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 19:57:18
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wayne.. not sure what the heck you are talking about ==== "over there" was in refernce to my message board where I posted that bill and the one to make baiting with corn legal this morning after an E-mail from the PFSC ???????? 
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wayne c
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RE: Deer in 2F ===
2011/02/17 20:00:07
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THought you were referring to hpa. I see they posted about it "over there". I thought you and others here said you closed up shop "over there" on YOUR site?
post edited by wayne c - 2011/02/17 20:01:00
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