interesting read

This is from the Oil City Derrick newspaper 2-15-2011

Interesting read in paragraph 10 and 11 under Agency reports. WCO Bimber is asking anyone seeing this kind of hunting (using dogs to hunt coyotes and bobcats) to contact the PGC


BUT


WHO CAN ATTEMPT TO HARVEST A BOBCAT?
Licensed furtakers (hunters and trappers) who possess a valid bobcat harvest permit may attempt to take one bobcat in WMUs 2A, 2C, 2E, 2F, 2G, 3A, 3B, 3C, 3D, 4A, 4D or 4E from December 18-January 8, 2011, using legal devices and methods during the bobcat hunting season, and December 18-January 9, 2011, during the trapping season.


Page 45 of the digest:

It is unlawful to take furbearers, including bobcats, with shotguns using shot larger than size number 4 buckshot. Manually operated rifles or handguns of any caliber, and manually or semi-automatic shotguns, can be used. Persons hunting for furbearers, including coyotes, foxes, bobcats, raccoons, skunks, opossums and weasels, may use gun-mounted lights that do not project a laser-light beam. Dogs are permitted to hunt furbearers.



so to me it seems wrong the WCO is going after people for using dogs, when the digest says its legal when Bobcats are in season. But if people are running dogs in February for cats then they are breaking the law.

I don't think the article says it is illegal to do so, just to contact the officer. Here's my take...The odds of a WCO crossing paths with dog runners that may be breaking the law are slim unless someone alerts him. From what I understand from the dog guys themselves is they break a TON of laws in their pursuit. The law clearly lists several electronic devices that may be used for hunting. Cell phones, dog tracking GPS, radios, etc. are all used. Using a vehicle to spot game, following dogs with vehicle to get to bay site, dogs running through private property are all very common violations.

   Quite a few of us in my family are L/E one Cousin is a Game Warden and he  runs Coon hounds.
He started getting calls about guys poaching Deer on his patrol. He realized they were talking about him  out Coon hunting.  All he said was OK I'll put a stop to it. Didnt hunt there again.
  Sometimes L/E gets calls like that one where the caller may not be accurate, still gotta follow through though.
   Have run cats, yotes and bears- ya never know how far or where its gonna go or how long its gonna take. Once they get hot its all up to the  cats, yotes and bears. Cept for yotes ya just hope they tree someplace where you can stay dry gettin there.

RSB, I haven't a clue what percentage do it legally, but there's a bunch that post and brag on the internet about it. Even some who do it legally feel the need to post pictures of coyotes tore up and killed by their dogs. Not much differernt than what Mike Vick served time for IMO. With the exception of rabbits, I don't think it should be legal to allow dogs to chase game that can't climb a tree.

Been reading on some other boards about the states where dog hunting deer is legal. All I can say is thank god PA doesn't allow that. It sounds like an absolute nightmare for landowners and non-dog deer hunters.

Just got home from my sportsman's meeting and we had a long and interesting discussion about this subject, some had seen the article that is posted above and were asking questions about the electronic stuff and dogs... luckily I had talked to our local WCO about it before the meeting..

basically what the PGC is hearing about is guys using electronics to follow the dogs as they chase a yote and then heading out and "cutting" the coyote off ahead of the dogs. They are using someone at home on a computer following the dogs using their electronics collars bouncing off a satellite and calling the hunters on a cell phone .. and some are even sitting in their trucks using a lap-top computer to trace the action.. UNBELIEVABLE !!

One guy in attendance had even seen guys using this method... and gave us a first-hand account of how it was being done...

Naturally this is illegal as RSB stated...

using an electronic collar to "locate" your dog is legal, but using electronics to help harvest a game animal is illegal, just like using a hand held radio or cell phone to tell your hunting buddy a deer is headed his way is actually illegal...

Everyone was pretty supportive of all the new rules the BOC has for the April Meeting as read them off ...

the split season in 2F had about a 50 - 50 approval rate... the rest were all "thumbs up"

   I never get over being surprised at stuff guys think of who dont participate in something. WHY is it always the most negative interpretation? Some guys always have that glass half empty mindset.
   The electric collars are used to FOLLOW and or locate the dogs when they get out of hearing . Especially when hunting game that runs long like bear although a lot of beagle guys use use them for snowshoes. They can run out of hearing too -specially in thick swampy or hilly country.
   If your on one road and the race goes over to one that takes you miles to drive around to its the only way to tell where in the country the dogs are when you get to where you THINK they went -by this time they are generally WAY out of hearing and the collar is the only way to relocate the race.
  Unless of course you THINK you can run with them and keep up all day through swamps and over mountains. Had a young guy just out of the USMC try that once-  we had him carry a collar  with the magnet still on so he could activate it when he got lost. He didnt keep up .
   Oh Yea -and then leash the dogs and bring them back.. The collars are good for quite a distance so you can generally get a line on their whereabouts- then you use a map and check out their general line of travel and try and get ahead of them so as to be close enough to HEAR  and follow the race.
    A decent collar has a tree indicator on it so when game goes up the dogs raise their head and body while barking and the monitor can sense it and then everyone has to find the nearest point of entry and walk into the tree. This AFTER triangulating the line to get a position. This also indicates  when game is bayed up on the ground as larger bears so often do, cats often go to a ledge-as opposed to treeing. This process is absolutley necessary in big country. Even with it we have walked in MILES to treed Bear and had to swim as well. Take some pictures, leash the Plotts and getem back  to do it again tomorrow. We have also had races run right off the monitor and spent long hours trying to relocate the dogs.-The monitor FINDS them.
    The alternative to the collars is wondering where the heck the race went after they ran out of hearing not to mention lost or killed dogs. Remember radio collars are for game that can run BIG. Also for dogs that run out of hearing.  How many Coon hunters spend days riding the roads and doing newspaper ads looking for their dogs.
    RSB- find some guys who hunt out of State with bear or cat dogs and talk to them before thinking they are doing something WRONG or improper getting ahead of a race - you know like those beagle guys do with cottontails.  (Wrong? morally repugnant? unsportsmanlike? illegal? somehow- getting over?)
Get right down to it those Yote hunters are doing just what the bunny guys do cept the Yotes run much bigger.
   Running big game aint bunny hunting..... You can run Bears for a week and never get a tree. Big long running stuff can out run good dogs and loose them miles from a start-ya gotta get the dogs back or locate the race-and the collars do the job.  BTW how many dogs quit a race or loose a YOTE and ya cant find them-RADIO COLLAR!!!

THANKFULLY... using dogs to hunt Bear and Deer is not legal here in PA and I hope it never becomes legal..just MHO

somehow I just can not justify using a computer to help shot a coyote .. sorry....and that's knowing I think they all should be killed....

and if a bunny hunter used electronics to harvest a rabbit I'd feel the same way... but I have never heard of that being done..

I think any HONEST hunter would know if he is using a computer ( his electronics) to find out where his dog is at or if he is using it to find out where something is to kill it..

just like the guy on the radio saying "Hey Jim, here comes a deer" KNOWS he is actually breaking the law, but because someone would mis-use the electronics should be make them illegal again.. NO... they do serve a purpose ....

retire guy..

I did not mean to "ruffle you feathers' about hunting with dogs. I personally do not have a problem wit it..

I was simply trying to explain what the complaint is from the PGC.

I can't support a guy sitting at home or in his truck monitoring a computer screen and radioing or cell phoning his "hunting" buddies as to where to go to shoot the animal being pursued..

I do not consider that hunting (fair chase)

If you think it is --- that's fine in my book.. but it is illegal in Pa.. that was my point in posting with a little more detail  what the WCO explained to me was going on

  Just don't see the difference between being close enough to hear it yourself and being told  where it is

Really ??? ... Being told by a guy who may be miles away watching a computer screen ???..
 
I can see if the guy is actually there hunting with you

Oh well to each his own.... not worth an arguement

I'm not a fan of saying all technology is a good thing anyway !!!

or bow.

Doc I think I read where you said you carry a radio with you when hunting. As do I.
Now if you have it on scan and here Joe Shmoe up on the hill say there are 3 deer heading down into the valley, wouldn't you both be commiting a game violation ?
Him by broadcasting it and you the listener for receiving information on game movement?
I've heard it many times while listening to the radio myself....

Hey Bing-
   If the infighting keep up we WILL have to become Indians or just watch old hunting shows on TV.

BINGS.....
 
GUILTY !!!!!!
 
 I have even looked to see if it was true

Now if you have it on scan and here Joe Shmoe up on the hill say there are 3 deer heading down into the valley, wouldn't you both be commiting a game violation ?

I've often wondered when you cross the line between general information passed between hunting partners compared informing your partner that a legal deer is headed in his direction. For example, if I am making a drive and jump a herd and announce it on the radio to alert the standers, is that a violation. If I jump the same herd and announce that they broke out in a different direction than the standers is that a violation?

Personally, I think the PGC is wasting their time trying to limit the use of radios, just as they are wasting their time worrying about predator hunters using radio collars to track their dogs and the prey they are hunting.