Small Program
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ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
public welcome! Commissioner Ed Mascharka is to speak on 3 major subjects... 1. The status of the 3-rod proposal 2. The future of the Brown Trout program 3. The future of the Steelhead program Location: Coraopolis Sportsman's Club located at 106 Coketown Road, Coraopolis, Pennsylvania 15108. off rt 51 (meeting location for the Pittsburgh Downriggers Club) Time: 7:30 PM February 22, 2011 more info at http://pittsburghdownriggersclub.com Come expecting! Bring your comments and questions. Now's our chance to be heard! post any questions/comments here and I'll try to answer...
post edited by Small Program - 2011/02/14 18:32:19
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Small Program
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/17 00:10:51
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Small Program
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/20 11:44:31
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Ironhed
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 00:16:25
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Was a very informative meeting. Something very interesting... Steelhead were captured in a few OH and NY tribs and were tested, by using micro-chemistry, by a biologist from Kent. By using the micro-chemistry, they are able to determine where these fish were stocked. 50% of the fish tested were found to be from PA.  Ironhed
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woodnickle
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 00:19:36
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Not good.. 
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spoonchucker
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 00:23:51
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Ken,
Since 60% + of the Steelhead in lake Erie are stocked by Penna. It stands to reason.
Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference. Step Up, or Step Aside The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody. GL
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ShutUpNFish 
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 09:35:28
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Still a pretty high percentage per average spoon. Even though these fish are produced/mutt/stockies....Even then, a lot of them appearently realize that PA tribs are not so conducive to their species.  Either that or they're just plain DUMB 
post edited by ShutUpNFish - 2011/02/23 09:36:06
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Ironhed
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 10:12:23
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They are straying more than I ever thought they would.
Ironhed
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kingnuke32
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 10:13:02
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The smolting process obviously isn't working as well as it has in the past, probably something to do with the mutt genes of the PA steelbow. Wonder if pen rearing as they do on Lake O would increase return rates? Would be interesting to see the PSA or someone do a study and see how that worked out.
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rapala11
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 10:19:25
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so do i need a pa license to catch pa steelhead in ohio?  . btw, what became of the 3 rod proposal or is it still under review?
post edited by rapala11 - 2011/02/23 10:20:25
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Ironhed
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 10:32:44
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Wonder if pen rearing as they do on Lake O would increase return rates? IMO, I doubt it would work here because we do not have any tailwater tribs(cooler waters). All of Lake O's pen rearing projects are done on tailwater rivers(towards the mouths). Ironhed
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paul2ski
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 10:33:05
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Well now I am not sure why no one has brought this up but here is something I think may be affecting the stocking processes:
1.) In the past they used to stock fingerlings, younger steelhead, and it seemed like we had amazing return rates, though I don't have and havent seen any statistical information on return rates only stocking info.
2.) In the recent past they have switched to yearlings which may be contributing them to getting lost since their biological triggers were confused as they sat in a hatchery and not in the creek.
Just my two cents, any other comments on this?
I remember back like 7-8 yrs ago at walnut back when they stocked fingerlings, there were so many fish in walnut creek, you could have walked across the backs of the fish in manchester hole, it was amazing!
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Ironhed
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 10:56:54
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btw, what became of the 3 rod proposal or is it still under review? It will be up for vote in April. If it passes it will be in effect for 2012. Ironhed
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Ironhed
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 11:01:28
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They have always stocked smolts. 1yr olds. I remember back like 7-8 yrs ago at walnut back when they stocked fingerlings, there were so many fish in walnut creek, you could have walked across the backs of the fish in manchester hole, it was amazing! And 7-8 years ago, Lake Erie wasn't as full of walleye that were as long as as your leg, either. Lampreys weren't as big a issue as well. Ironhed
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PatrickC
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 11:16:36
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ORIGINAL: paul2ski
2.) In the recent past they have switched to yearlings which may be contributing them to getting lost since their biological triggers were confused as they sat in a hatchery and not in the creek.
Interesting. If that's the case Paul, are they showing up in other systems? Or, are they just hanging out in the lake? Seems like they would still have the instinct to run. If they are not running in the PA tribs, did NY tribs see an increase in their run that might account for it? Our fall run in OH was pretty weak this year. Although we have a spring run fishery, we usually have a much better fall run than what was observed this year.
When my fly is down...I'm having a good day!
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Ironhed
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 11:39:04
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Ironhed
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Pork
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 11:50:12
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LMAO... ORIGINAL: Ironhed
Was a very informative meeting.
Something very interesting...
Steelhead were captured in a few OH and NY tribs and were tested, by using micro-chemistry, by a biologist from Kent. By using the micro-chemistry, they are able to determine where these fish were stocked.
50% of the fish tested were found to be from PA.
Ironhed
You're gonna get a hedache from that brick wall. 
post edited by Pork - 2011/02/23 11:52:36
"If you ever get hit with a bucket of fish, be sure to close your eyes." ><)))*>
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Kokanee Killer
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 11:53:04
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I have become comfortably numb
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ShutUpNFish
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 11:53:08
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Fingerlings would be more susceptible to predation anyway....pen rearing would be the more applicable process for higher return rates. However, when the state stocks literally millions, the return rate will still be WAY too many for our ditches, like it currently is IMO. Quite frankly, I'm glad some get lost
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heyiknowyou
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 11:59:57
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the obvious solution here is to dredge elk creek
go back to spain 11-12-11: the last time i got punched in the face
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kingnuke32
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 12:14:56
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ORIGINAL: heyiknowyou
the obvious solution here is to dredge elk creek
How about building a dam to control water flow...
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PatrickC
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 12:29:44
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ORIGINAL: Ironhed
Ironhed
My point was that the runs are not better over here...were the any better in NY. There is a loss of fish somewhere if the returns are down. I saw the study about 50% of the fish being from PA, but that still does not account for why our numbers are down as well.
When my fly is down...I'm having a good day!
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ShutUpNFish
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 12:49:55
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ORIGINAL: kingnuke32
ORIGINAL: heyiknowyou
the obvious solution here is to dredge elk creek
How about building a dam to control water flow...
No No, Build those pipes that run all the way up to McKean and constantly pump water up from the lake to control the flow! Yeah, uh huh, thats it!
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Ironhed
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 13:00:12
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My point was that the runs are not better over here...were the any better in NY. There is a loss of fish somewhere if the returns are down. I saw the study about 50% of the fish being from PA, but that still does not account for why our numbers are down as well. No they were not any better in NY. Numbers were down lakewide. Ironhed
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PatrickC
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 13:24:51
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ORIGINAL: Ironhed
My point was that the runs are not better over here...were the any better in NY. There is a loss of fish somewhere if the returns are down. I saw the study about 50% of the fish being from PA, but that still does not account for why our numbers are down as well.
No they were not any better in NY.
Numbers were down lakewide.
Ironhed
Thanks! I would like to know what year the study was done or if the samples were taken over several years. Even if all of the fish studied in NY & OH were from the last 2 years, I would have to think that it is not a new phenomenon that a big % of PA fish end up in OH or NY. As someone else stated earlier, PA stocks 60% of the steelhead put in Lake Erie. As interesting as the study results are, they don't explain at all why the numbers are down. I can see the argument for predation on smolts as others have suggested. If it is not predation, is there some environmental factor/contaminant that is killing the young fish? I would think if that were the case there would be reports of such fish kills. I would lean more towards the predation theory. Someone else mentioned raising fish in pens in the lake. I know nothing about the runs on the Canadian side of the lake. I would be curious as to the behavior of pen raised steelhead when they are released. They would be raised to maturity as pellet heads. As one of you states all of the time, steelhead are pretty stupid as it is...full blown pellet head steelhead must be interesting.
When my fly is down...I'm having a good day!
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kingnuke32
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 14:45:26
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ORIGINAL: PatrickC
ORIGINAL: Ironhed
My point was that the runs are not better over here...were the any better in NY. There is a loss of fish somewhere if the returns are down. I saw the study about 50% of the fish being from PA, but that still does not account for why our numbers are down as well.
No they were not any better in NY.
Numbers were down lakewide.
Ironhed
Thanks!
I would like to know what year the study was done or if the samples were taken over several years. Even if all of the fish studied in NY & OH were from the last 2 years, I would have to think that it is not a new phenomenon that a big % of PA fish end up in OH or NY. As someone else stated earlier, PA stocks 60% of the steelhead put in Lake Erie. As interesting as the study results are, they don't explain at all why the numbers are down. I can see the argument for predation on smolts as others have suggested. If it is not predation, is there some environmental factor/contaminant that is killing the young fish? I would think if that were the case there would be reports of such fish kills. I would lean more towards the predation theory.
Someone else mentioned raising fish in pens in the lake. I know nothing about the runs on the Canadian side of the lake. I would be curious as to the behavior of pen raised steelhead when they are released. They would be raised to maturity as pellet heads. As one of you states all of the time, steelhead are pretty stupid as it is...full blown pellet head steelhead must be interesting.
The pens are in the streams not the lake, the idea being to keep them in the streams longer to get an imprint rather than them running straight to the lake when they are stocked. That's how a lot of the Lake O fish are stocked. I have helped the pen feeding on the Gennessee in Rochester when I was up there working.
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PatrickC
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 14:58:21
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ORIGINAL: kingnuke32
The pens are in the streams not the lake, the idea being to keep them in the streams longer to get an imprint rather than them running straight to the lake when they are stocked. That's how a lot of the Lake O fish are stocked. I have helped the pen feeding on the Gennessee in Rochester when I was up there working.
Interesting. I have not seen those. I was thinking of the aquaculture pens for salmon. How long do they keep the fish in those pens before releasing them? Lake Ontario has much cooler tribs than we do. Would something like that even work here? Our tribs are pretty warm in the summer. I suppose they could mature the fish in spring fed creek hatchries and drop them in the pens in the fall and release them in the spring.
When my fly is down...I'm having a good day!
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KJH807
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 15:03:47
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where are you going to put a "pen" with a million fish?
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PatrickC
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RE: ATTN PITTSBURGH: Fish Commission Speaks on 3-rod, BT and SH 2/22
2011/02/23 15:10:16
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ORIGINAL: KJH807
where are you going to put a "pen" with a million fish?
At your house Kevin
When my fly is down...I'm having a good day!
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