Pretty obvious this is a strong topic of discussion. Have not been on all week and when I saw the post concerning 20 mile, I thought it was time I threw my two cents out there for what that’s worth. For me, I’ve been following the Bristol Bay threat to a great degree and although I have been reading up on the shale drilling, I’ve kind of let my feelings go silent and for me … that’s just wrong because this is something that is taking place right here at home. When it comes to interests such as this I tend to get pretty concerned. The Marcellus Shale Drilling is something that is kind of unique in that - yes there is a huge deposit of gas right under our feet - and yes it will provide a boost to the people who live here - and yes, it will provide a resource that will help an economy here in Pennsylvania that has problems. Fracking is not new… it is a method that has been used in the past with success in tapping out shallow gas reserves. Problems have arisen though when overzealous companies like Cabot see income and profits from a minor (in their overall budgets) investment in deep drilling. They tend to put the environment at a risk in their search for their own success. Can deep wells be drilled safely without any impact to the surrounding environment? Personally, I strongly doubt it. But I hope the successful methods do come to light because I believe that the drilling will continue. I attended a two day seminar some time ago that focused on water quality. The water in our wells arrives in two ways they said - depending on the rock formations. In hard shale it can take up to ten years to reach our supply and can travel hundreds of miles. When the rock is fractured, this time and distance is decreased dramatically. - to the point where the water arrival to our wells can become very local. As posted there are many issues with hydraulic fracturing and it is a shame that is has taken this long to arrive to a consensus that stronger oversight must take place.

I feel - and again - just my two cents - that a more major issue is at stake here. We are actually in the infancy of our environment’s future history. Many of the issues we face now were not a concern 50 or even as young as 20 years ago. I fear for the world that my great - grandchildren will live in. What will it be like? Will there be that colorful native brookie in my favorite water? Will they have the opportunity to see a great run of sockeye? Will they see a coast off of New Jersey like I see it now? How will they heat their homes and power their lights? Who really knows these answers. Bottom line though is that I hope they do not look back on these times that we are living and experiencing now and wish we would have done more. Volunteering our precious time to help out on a few weekends to restore a severely eroded stream bank, getting involved with local environmental issues at municipal meetings, and discussions like we have here, both against and yes, for. These are good discussions and are things that help - not hinder. It shows that we are aware and hopefully are involved.

In the end - perhaps all of this is why when I fish, I tend to spend more time than ever before looking around the world I find myself in. Many times I have found myself sitting along 20 or Elk looking at the shale cliffs in amazement as to how this very current has created this scene I’m looking at. With age, I tend to think and sit more than cast. Guess perhaps I’m worried that with all that is going on in our world that there may be a time when it will all change.

This thread needs more cowbell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjsUf_oIgp0&feature=related

ORIGINAL: Bwayangler

ORIGINAL: S-10

Lets See now
1. Can't burn wood because it puts too many pollutents in the air
2. Can't burn coal for the same reason
3. Nucelar energy is too dangerous
4. Can't use wind because windmills kill too many birds
5. Can't drill for oil or build any more refineries because it is too polluting
6. Can't drill for natural gas because it is too polluting
7. Can't use the sun because we only have 50 sunny days in the Northeast
8. It's snowing outside and the temperature is zero
9. Any suggestions

You hit the nail right on the head!

We shouldn't use any fossils fuels, and alternative energy sources are harmful in other ways, or uneconomical.   And Don't drill here..... These resources exist somewhere else, Right? As long as its not in my backyard! The Middle East has plenty of Oil.....   Face it... Nobody is willing to give up their every day conveniences that require the use of fossil fuels, and most people refuse to cut back...  Should i buy the hybrid SUV, or the one with the V8?  ehhhhh.... I think I'll take the V8. I definitely have huge concerns for our environment and our fisheries, but I sort of feel like there are a few Hypocrites out there.

So I guess my question is what are you doing to help?

 
Hypocrites? How about these hypocrites...you know GE has the primary contract to supply and install those electric vehicle "charge stations". You drive up and plug in your car and charge it up. You talk about additional strain on the grid!  Plus, where exactly does the vast majority of that electricity come from? COAL-FIRED POWER PLANTS!

For anyone following this thread and may want to support the safety of 20 mile creek there will be a township meeting on Monday Jan. 17th at the township building at 9:00 AM reguarding the permits for drilling on 13 sites in North East including the two drilling sites next to 20 mile creek . please come and show your support and let the township officals know we don't want this in our town .

THE FERD

ORIGINAL: deetz4352

I was going to attend but FORGOT I will not be in town. Someone add my name to the "I dont want drilling" to the list. Or just hold up 2 hands for the "NO" vote. Thanks

The Deetz

Do you want $5.00/gallon gas or $10.00/gallon gas to go fishing???

ORIGINAL: jon_e_si

ORIGINAL: deetz4352

I was going to attend but FORGOT I will not be in town. Someone add my name to the "I dont want drilling" to the list. Or just hold up 2 hands for the "NO" vote. Thanks

The Deetz

Do you want $5.00/gallon gas or $10.00/gallon gas to go fishing???

Please explain this to me. So more natural gas means lower gasoline prices? How?

"Please explain this to me. So more natural gas means lower gasoline prices? How?"

By reducing demand. many fleet vehicles ( UPS, USPS, public transit ) now operate on NG. Also, anyone with oil heat, and access to gas would be a fool not to replace their furnace. Between the lower fuel costs, greater effeciency of today's furnaces, and energy tax credits. You could probably pay for it, and be enjoying savings in 3 years or less. The latter has two benefits. Lower demand for crude, and more refining capacity devoted to gasoline production, rather than heating oil.

Please explain this to me. So more natural gas means lower gasoline prices? How?


I'm not sure I can, but there have been a couple of good explanations already. I feel we as a nation need a comprehensive energy policy that encompasses solar, nuclear, wind, coal, oil, gas, hydro-electric from the rivers and the tides, and even wood. There are "antis" to all of these. Unfortuantely, too many of our elected officials cave in to their demands and do what they feel is politically expedient.

A while back I posted T.Boone Pickens prediction that oil would go to $80.00/ barrel (it's over $90.00 now - hence the spike in prices)and he based his statement not on any great knowledge, but on the fact that the OPEC ministers said that's where they needed the price to be. If they keep printing dollars or in other ways devalue the dollar, some are predicting $125.00/barrel, which will result in another big spike, more than most average wage earners can afford, which will cut into their fishing/gas dollars.

These things don't happen overnight. You can't build a nuclear plant today and put it on line tomorrow, the same applies to a gas well, coal mine, hydro-electric facility, etc. The people in the industry who are in the business of selling energy in one form or another are going to do it at a profit or will cease to exist! All these costs are passed to you the consumer and your wages are probably not going to increase proportionately!

Most of us remember when Erie was termed the DEAD SEA as the result of industrial pollution, but has since been greatly cleaned up,by the industries that created the problem and thanks in part to the zebra mussel, which also provides a food base, but was thought by some to be an ecological diaster! We need energy to run our homes, industry, vehicles, including our fishing boats. During the embargo of the 70's, the wealthy had fuel. The cheaper our energy costs, the more of our citizens will benefit!

People need to look at the future as well as today. It's okay to protest something, but they should also be able to present a realistic economical alternative or maybe re-think their position!

I agree with son of Z. Heating oil is $3.15 a gal where I live. NG is about $3.50 a gal.

Natural gas prices are very variable.  It depends on where you live.  In some areas, it is cheaper and in others oil is cheaper.
 
I have lived in homes with both types of heat and I prefer natural gas.  I like to cook with gas.  I also have a gas fireplace that I can use for heat if the power goes out.  It is just my preference.

When it comes to drilling, as long as it is done without damage to the aquifer or the streams, it is not a problem.  The issue that seems to be coming up here is when a problem does occur, the results can be devastating.  I would hate to see a great stream like 20 mile ruined and a lot of people in Notheast have their wells polluted.

ORIGINAL: SonofZ3

We're comparing the use of NG for both heating and to power vehicles. The argument was made that by drilling for NG in America, we will need less foreign oil, and that drilling for NG will result in lower, or more stable, gasoline prices. I argued that the demand for oil is so large, and increasing, that NG will not have any noticeable affect on the price of gasoline, due to a number of factors, including the limited use of CNG in vehicles.

What we're actually talking about is energy costs! When oil was under $20.00/barrel you had gas (for cars, etc.) under a $1.00/gallon. Now that the demand has increased fueled by our own increased consumption, and that of Russia, China, India, etc. driving the price up, it has made it economical to develop ways to extract gas from the various shales that heretofore was uneconomical. Back in the sixties, one of my friends went to work for Niagra-Mohawk Electric in NY and I asked him how much coal they used?? He responded none, that they were using oil! They're developing alternatives that include natural gas fired power plants, wind, "clean" coal, nuclear, all of which meet with various degrees of resistance from the "antis", but which will be necessary for our future energy needs, if we are going to maintain our standard of living for our children and grand-children!

I feel that we are currently experiencing an adjustment and equaliztion period, and that oil at $80.00/barrel ++ is going to be the price and the predictions that this will create maybe 20% inflation will occur. In other words, the cost of living is going up and we are going to have to live with it and deal with it, not to mention budget our funds for hunting and fishing! As I mentioned before, we not only have to look at today, but consider tomorrow and the future!

We can wait for the Chinese to develop the vehicles and then import them.  Isn't that the new American business model????

SonofZ,

All this gas drilling will directly and dramatically lower gas prices.

Within 5 years you'll be able to run your car by filling the tank with your flammable tap water.

do you get a discount for every gallon after that?

ORIGINAL: deetz4352

I will be selling my water by five gallon buckets. If you would like some please PM me now.

NOTE: It is your responsibility to separate the flammable liquids from the drinking water.

The Deetz