chrisrowboat
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20 Mile and gas drilling
FYI-
Gas Drilling Concerns in North East TownshipJanuary 3, 2011, 4:07 pm Many residents in North East Township say they want more information about a plan to drill new gas wells at seven locations. CLICK FOR VIDEO One of the permits issues to Lake Erie Energy Partners is for a deep well, up to 6300 feet. Residents say they have not received much information and they are worried about the possible impact on the environment. The site of the proposed deep well is close to Route 5 and Middle Road. And close to Twenty Mile Creek, a very popular fishing spot. But the State DEP has approved drilling permits for all seven locations. And some site preparation has already started. But no actual drilling can begin until the township gives it's approval. The North East Township Planning Commission will consider the drilling plan at a meeting scheduled for January 17 at 9:00am. Residents say they want to know more about the drilling company's plans to protect the environment, especially water. Businessman Nick Mobilia said, "I think before we let someone come in we need to address all these issues , what happens if we start contaminating our water." Homeowner Brian Sherman said, "I think the big concern is water. We have good water. We have no access to municipal water. We depend on our wells. There is no process in place or laid out by the company or the3 state to tell us what to do if there is a problem with a water well." We tried without luck today to get in touch with Lake Erie Energy Partners to get their reaction to the concerns.
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deetz4352
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/13 19:47:01
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I think I will be attending the Jan 17th meeting. This is such a bad idea to drill in any of the locations in North East. If it happens I will most likely be moving to an area away from any and all the drilling locations so my drinking water does not become contaminated. Not to mention that 20mile will eventually be void of any and all living creatures that use the water way. Fish , Insects and plant life will most likely die off and may never return if the water becomes contaminated. I have seen what happens to natural springs and water ways that become contaminated after drilling has occurred. The grape crops in and around all drilling locations may become contaminated as well. Some farmers use the water to irrigate crops and fields.
I will be very sad if this proceeds and drilling becomes a reality. So much will be ruined. Things as North Easterners know it may well cease to exist. Fishing included!!
The Deetz
The Deetz Fishermen are born honest,but they get over it
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bingsbaits
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/13 20:17:11
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Not true at all..
Gas wells can be drilled without contaminating the drinking water supply.
The gas well beside my house is 75 yards from a native Brookie stream and it is a thriving creek.
"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
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psu_fish
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/13 20:18:05
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if a well is cased correctly, it will not pose problems
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Noplacelikehome
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/13 20:47:23
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I can't believe they would even think about possibly destroying a Great lake, let alone the entire N.E. area(fishing, grapes). Can you put a price on a Great Lake??? I don't think so. I am all for shallow gas wells(safe for many years), but when you dig 3,000 or 6,000 feet under ground who knows what bad things could be unleshed. There has to be a good reason N.Y. said no to this gas drilling.
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deetz4352
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/13 20:54:51
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If "fracking" is involved in the process of extracting the gas then all will be lost.
The Deetz
The Deetz Fishermen are born honest,but they get over it
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psu_fish
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/13 20:55:50
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ORIGINAL: Noplacelikehome
I can't believe they would even think about possibly destroying a Great lake, let alone the entire N.E. area(fishing, grapes). Can you put a price on a Great Lake??? I don't think so. I am all for shallow gas wells(safe for many years), but when you dig 3,000 or 6,000 feet under ground who knows what bad things could be unleshed. There has to be a good reason N.Y. said no to this gas drilling.
Liberals 
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psu_fish
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/13 21:05:27
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Canada thinks its ok to drill The Windsor Star has reported that, “About 470 natural gas wells are still in operation (in Lake Erie on the Ontario side, says Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources spokesperson Jolanta Kowalski). Most are 15 to 60 kilometres offshore, east of Point Pelee to south of Port Colborne. … In addition, the province has 23 oil wells - called horizontal or slant wells - drilled on-shore but extending under Lake Erie, Kowalski said.†In Michigan, there are efforts underway to have the state House and Senate approve measures by September 2 that would allow for a November 2 vote on a constitutional ban on drilling in the Great Lakes in addtion to their current legislative ban on such drilling. The Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources estimates that there are about 156 million barrels of oil and 1 trillion cubic feet of gas on the Canadian side of Lake Erie. The US Geological Survey has estimated that there are 430 million barrels of recoverable petroleum liquids and 5.2 trillion cubic feet of recoverable natural gas on the US side of the Great Lakes. and of course American Libs are urging them to stop http://www.canadians.org/campaignblog/?p=4400 http://www.cbc.ca/canada/windsor/story/2010/06/03/lake-erie-natural-gas-drilling.html
post edited by psu_fish - 2011/01/13 21:06:15
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Esox_Hunter
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/13 21:42:41
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psu_fish
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/13 21:49:39
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Noplacelikehome
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/13 21:56:52
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PSU, look up the article about Dimrock, Pa. 16 or 19 water wells contaiminated by fracking. Cabot gas(I think thats the company) had to buy their homes for double the market value because they had no safe water. Their wells were safe for a hundred years BEFORE drilling destroyed their water wells. I am not a liberal, but here is hard lesson we should NOT repeat. If I remember correctly the gas company quickly cut its losses and moved out of Pa. This fracking process is NOT safe.
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Esox_Hunter
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/13 22:05:29
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This needs some more research, but it is some food for though. LINK Who woulda ever thunk that fracturing the shat out of solid stratum 1000's of feet thick would have had any repercussions
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psu_fish
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/13 22:44:02
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ORIGINAL: Noplacelikehome
PSU, look up the article about Dimrock, Pa.   16 or 19 water wells contaiminated by fracking. Cabot gas(I think thats the company) had to buy their homes for double the market value because they had no safe water. Their wells were safe for a hundred years BEFORE drilling destroyed their water wells. I am not a liberal, but here is hard lesson we should NOT repeat. If I remember correctly the gas company quickly cut its losses and moved out of Pa.  This fracking process is NOT safe.
I've read about Cabot before...is Cabot drilling in North East Twp? Casing wells is safe if the company takes the steps to properly case the well. I tend to think Stone Energy is the best of the companies currently, and Cabot is the worst along with Halliburton
post edited by psu_fish - 2011/01/13 22:47:10
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Ironhed
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/14 00:07:27
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Who woulda ever thunk that fracturing the shat out of solid stratum 1000's of feet thick would have had any repercussions A geologist/engineer pushing pencils from behind his desk would be my guess.  Watch the documentary "Gasland".(I rented it via NetFlix) Interesting. Ironhed
post edited by Ironhed - 2011/01/14 00:08:26
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Split Shot
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/14 01:34:48
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The problem is making sure there is strict oversite. Many people have had their water screwed up. What happens is the homeowner's get methane gas in the water system and then the gas people say that it is not natural gas, so they didn't cause it. But the fracking caused the cracking and seeping of the methane. I am NOT against drilling. It just seems that D.E.P is just too quick to give out permits. When my brother was logging, they put him thru crap about not crossing a creek. (making a little mud). They let the drillers put the chemical mixed water down deep in the ground and leave it there. They gave me and my brother all kind of crap, because we crushed some cars on a lot and there was some oil on the ground that we had all intentions of cleaning up. Imagine if we wanted to drill a deep hole and send the oil down there. (because it is below the water table and would not cause problems as the dep and gas boy's say)  Like I said, I am not against drilling it's just that I think the dep and gas co. are to Cozy! "Show me the Money"
My Wife said, if I go fish'n one more time, she'll leave me! God, I'm going to miss her!
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jaymztrain
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/14 07:06:27
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From what I have read, there are hardly any fish on the eastside anyway
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Erie Mako
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/14 07:56:16
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You think it's bad now, just wait until they start "storing" carbon dioxide in the old "dead" wells...
The fish will have to learn to like seltzer water!!!
On the internet, EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion!
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dano
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/14 10:02:48
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chartist
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/14 11:00:55
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you can't be a republican only when it suits you.....Don't worry, the marcellus shale thickness is only around 50 feet in the erie area....you're area may not even get drilled.
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psu_fish
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/14 13:02:10
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ORIGINAL: chartist
you can't be a republican only when it suits you.....Don't worry, the marcellus shale thickness is only around 50 feet in the erie area....you're area may not even get drilled.
who me? I'm in Clarion Co. go dredge Elk
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SonofZ3
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/14 13:07:40
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ORIGINAL: Noplacelikehome
PSU, look up the article about Dimrock, Pa.   16 or 19 water wells contaiminated by fracking. Cabot gas(I think thats the company) had to buy their homes for double the market value because they had no safe water. Their wells were safe for a hundred years BEFORE drilling destroyed their water wells. I am not a liberal, but here is hard lesson we should NOT repeat. If I remember correctly the gas company quickly cut its losses and moved out of Pa.  This fracking process is NOT safe.
I hope they got double market value for the house BEFORE the water was ruined. I can't imagine a house with ruined water is worth a whole lot. I think its a lousy precedant that they even get to buy them off like that. It should be that they're require to provide water. if that means city water from 20 miles away, then thats what it should be. You ruin the water, you provide new water.
Support your local Fly Shop! OHWM
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S-10
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/14 13:10:45
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Lets See now 1. Can't burn wood because it puts too many pollutents in the air 2. Can't burn coal for the same reason 3. Nucelar energy is too dangerous 4. Can't use wind because windmills kill too many birds 5. Can't drill for oil or build any more refineries because it is too polluting 6. Can't drill for natural gas because it is too polluting 7. Can't use the sun because we only have 50 sunny days in the Northeast 8. It's snowing outside and the temperature is zero 9. Any suggestions
post edited by S-10 - 2011/01/14 13:13:12
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SonofZ3
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/14 13:32:17
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ORIGINAL: S-10
Lets See now
1. Can't burn wood because it puts too many pollutents in the air
2. Can't burn coal for the same reason
3. Nucelar energy is too dangerous
4. Can't use wind because windmills kill too many birds
5. Can't drill for oil or build any more refineries because it is too polluting
6. Can't drill for natural gas because it is too polluting
7. Can't use the sun because we only have 50 sunny days in the Northeast
8. It's snowing outside and the temperature is zero
9. Any suggestions
1. Both my neighbors, and many other people I know have wood burners. Since when can't you have one? 2. Many towns across the county still run off coal powered plants. Many people have coal stoves for heat instead of wood burners. No reason you can't have one. 3. Yes, for now. 4. Bird kills are a downside to wind turbines, but that hasn't stopped them from being built. 5. No one has a problem with drilling for oil or running refineries as long as they adhere to reasonable standards. 6. Natural gas drilling is fine, again, as long as the noxious water is accounted for and properly treated. 7. Solar power may not be as viable here as in other parts of the country, but that hardly makes it worthless altogether. 8. get a: woodburner, coal burning stove, or turn up the thermostat. 9. So pointing out the downsides to different forms of energy generation and expecting the byproducts to be dealt with is somehow stopping you from heating your house? Sorry for expecting corporations to clean up their mess and adhere to standards.
Support your local Fly Shop! OHWM
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Esox_Hunter
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/14 13:35:10
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That is a bit extreme, do you know how much of our energy comes from fossil fuels? The demand for them isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I don't think you will find many people who are against responsible drilling for natural gas. It is the dive head first for the money and deal with the consequences later concept that bothers me. You would think we would have learned from our mining mistakes that we are still paying for 100 years down the road. It is far easier to prevent environmental disasters than it is to remediate them. I can remember while in school at an energy conference one of the speakers said "In 20 years potable water will be more scarce than oil." At the time I felt it was laughable, however I still don't think it is true, but it seems that it will be more true with the passing of each year.
post edited by Esox_Hunter - 2011/01/14 13:36:57
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psu_fish
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/14 13:41:49
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ORIGINAL: S-10
Lets See now
1. Can't burn wood because it puts too many pollutents in the air
2. Can't burn coal for the same reason
3. Nucelar energy is too dangerous
4. Can't use wind because windmills kill too many birds
5. Can't drill for oil or build any more refineries because it is too polluting
6. Can't drill for natural gas because it is too polluting
7. Can't use the sun because we only have 50 sunny days in the Northeast
8. It's snowing outside and the temperature is zero
9. Any suggestions
foot power   and Z3...some municipalities are banning wood burners.
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S-10
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/14 14:41:25
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and Z3...some municipalities are banning wood burners. Actually everyone of those sources of energy have either been stopped or outlawed somewhere in the US, or have various groups trying to stop or outlaw them. I agree reasonable restrictions need to apply but just as this thread shows some folks ideas of reasonable restrictions is Don't do it. As for me, I am set up for electric in half my house as needed, have a large fireplace, have a wood burner in the back, have a 300gal propane tank hooked up for one large room and plumed into my furnace for emergency and my primary heat source is lease gas. 5 oil wells within 300yds of my house and I use a water well. I will admit I use a conditioner to remove a gas oder from the water but the tradeoff is 40 years of free heat. The propane was a add on when I enlarged my house beyond the furnace capability.
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heyiknowyou
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/14 16:12:19
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how much do you guys really know about nuclear power?
go back to spain 11-12-11: the last time i got punched in the face
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Bughawk
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/14 16:30:43
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There is a down side to all forms of energy we currently use. When you burn just about anything, there are gasses released that can harm the atmosphere and particulates that can be problematic as well. Nuclear power is reasonably safe, but there is the issue of waste. Water can generate lots of electricity, but dams really mess up rivers and the critters that live in them. Wind is a good source, but people don't like seeing windmills and there is some problems with birds. Solar energy has not developed to the point it is really practical for most applications, And on and on...
The one big thing we are not considering here is conservation. If we use less, we need less. Of course that means more fuel efficient vehicles, driving at lower speeds, better built houses and buildings, using less electronics, buying fewer goods, recycling more, developing better mass transit, etc... It seems we don't want to do most of these things, or doing them in the short term is not as cost effective as continuing what we are doing right now. I think when energy prices hit the breaking point for most people, we will see change, but given the cheap energy we have, there is no real reason to conserve.
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chartist
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/14 17:13:57
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The only thing you need to know about nuclear power is that the coal industry lobbyists will fight it tooth and nail.
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psu_fish
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RE: 20 Mile and gas drilling
2011/01/14 17:45:42
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France re-processes the spent fuel rods, which greatly reduces nuclear waste.
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