Browns and Steelhead

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retired guy
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/19 12:06:32 (permalink)
I bought a run down place up there , spent weeks and weeks doing a gut rehab, spent a summer and fall cleaning up the outside and establishing a nice lawn, pay my taxes just like I lived there for all the services I dont use including the large school tax. And I do it among other things, to pay the out of state rate to go fishing.  Yeaaaa I must be one of those out of staters.
 
  Just think -whenever you go someplace else to hunt or fish you too are the problem,
#31
dimebrite
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/19 12:15:42 (permalink)
regardless of why they did it. it is a spectacular fishery that i believe is going to get better. i believe the greatest thing about it is that it's a preservation of salmon stocks that might one day be gonbe from ocean waters. i would love to see them reduce the stock of chinooks, maybe introduce a spring run chinook instead while leaving the cohoes.then also increase the atlantics. maybe that would start to get rid of the trash that doesn't belong fishing there with decreased salmon stocks. i am completely content with my accomplishments this summer for salmon. it's funny to watch everyone start to argue and complain about the river now. i just can't wait til late october lower river when fresh chrome dime brights are running. although the river gets moderate pressure for steelhead, i often find some decent solitude. i'll let all the hooligans bounce lead off of eachothers foreheads for the next 4 weeks. i'm sure i'll make it to the river a few times before the free for all is over, but i will choose my day, time and spot wisely. good luck to all who are heading up in the nextr few weeks.
#32
retired guy
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/19 15:37:30 (permalink)
Hey Dime,
   The salmon stocks ARE reduced and the large runs are diminished in time cycle. If you were there 20 or 25 or more years ago you wouldnt recognize this stuff as a run. Admittedly they are up from a few years past but NOTHING like it was.
    In regard to the Atlantics. They have been working on them and the Skamania for quite a while now and despite the occasional fish it really hasnt happened. I know somebodys gonna respond that they catch them but the reality is that they are very few and far between. They just dont seem to do well with warm low summer water and they have never come in in any real numbers. Maybe this just isnt the place for them.
   The real problem is that there are too many guys for the runs of Salmon that exist now--they are still coming up during the old run cycles to big disapointments like the present Sept no show or low activity. Mid Sept used to be nuts.
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waDerboy
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/19 17:43:07 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: draketrutta

I pay my share in taxes for my camp in NY and I follow all the regs.

My problem is that I have no problem speaking the truth, and some folks can't handle the truth - like the fact that the SR is a man-made fishery built solely for economic reasons, and the fact that the DEC ignores 90% of the BS that goes on along that river because the powers that be don't want to put a padlock on their cash register drawer.

It will be a cold day in Haydes before I play Deputy Dog like a growing number of joker trib fishermen.

I give the Lake Charter Community more respect, at least they are honest about their intentions and their actions.


This quote of yours does say fthe fishery was built solely
for economoc reasons doesn't it.
You are 100% wrong on that. Remember them dying alwives. That is what it was created for. WHAT HAS HAPPENED AFTER THAT DOES NOT CHANGE THE REASON IT WAS CREATED.
Backpedal all you want but since it is now quoted you can't deny what you said.
Either you didn't know the reason salmon were first planted or you a to stupid to have worded it correctly. Now go back to being Miss Grundy of the spelling police. YOU GOT NOTHING.
#34
FINLESSBROWN
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/19 19:47:13 (permalink)
I cant figure out how this is a response to my question about fly colors.

Duck the chuckers-
#35
draketrutta
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/19 20:28:08 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: waDerboy


ORIGINAL: draketrutta

I pay my share in taxes for my camp in NY and I follow all the regs.

My problem is that I have no problem speaking the truth, and some folks can't handle the truth - like the fact that the SR is a man-made fishery built solely for economic reasons, and the fact that the DEC ignores 90% of the BS that goes on along that river because the powers that be don't want to put a padlock on their cash register drawer.

It will be a cold day in Haydes before I play Deputy Dog like a growing number of joker trib fishermen.

I give the Lake Charter Community more respect, at least they are honest about their intentions and their actions.


This quote of yours does say fthe fishery was built solely
for economoc reasons doesn't it.
You are 100% wrong on that. Remember them dying alwives. That is what it was created for. WHAT HAS HAPPENED AFTER THAT DOES NOT CHANGE THE REASON IT WAS CREATED.
Backpedal all you want but since it is now quoted you can't deny what you said.
Either you didn't know the reason salmon were first planted or you a to stupid to have worded it correctly. Now go back to being Miss Grundy of the spelling police. YOU GOT NOTHING.

 
And I stand by my statement.
 
My comment to Metalslayer regarding the alewives was sarcastic, and it obviously flew right over your head....
 
If the reduction of alewives was the primary factor behind the need for the SR hatchery, then obviously the State of NY ignored less expensive methods such as pen rearing fingerling Salmon imported from other locations.
 
And they ignored ramping up the numbers of other Alewive predators such as Lake Trout, Walleye, and Bass.
 
Until YOU can provide a bonafide link to a govt agency that states the SOLE PURPOSE for the construction of the SR Hatchery was to eliminate the alewive population, then YOU GOT NOTHING.
 
I suggest you do some further research to prove me wrong - before you preach from the top of your simple-minded Guide Rock..
 
#36
dimebrite
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/19 20:37:58 (permalink)
yeah right; go figure finless... your colors sound good.

retired... been fishing the river avidly for 22 seasons. seen a lot change and come and go. i disagree with mediocre septembers. last year i hit a big run mid september. every year is different. as i've said many times before; salmon fishing for me is mostly done in august and early september. i didn't know they reduced the stocking of kings; but i haven't noticed. 2 weeks ago i had a 40 fish hook up morning with my father in the dsr. not a spectactular run, but a spectacular morning in my book. salmon fishing can never be figured out. you just have to go. for example, everyone was talking about the warm temps and low water this season. now the water has been up and in the low 60's for weeks now and i can honestly say i saw more fish when the water was warmer. go figure. and in regards to all of the multiple comments on fishing pressure; yes it was way more crowded many years ago. even if there are less fish, i'd rather it be that way. because that will equal less pressure in the future. and i'm sure my 20 hookup mornings aren't going anywhere anytime soon. i almost like them better than the big runs...
#37
salmotrutta
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/19 20:43:41 (permalink)
How does one get 40 hookups in a morning? 

Lyrical
#38
draketrutta
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/19 21:23:07 (permalink)
Find a slot during a run and have at it.
 
DB did not mention how many were false hooked and broken off, but I would guess a good number were.
 
#39
retired guy
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/19 23:50:34 (permalink)
  I'm not so sure they reduced the stocking initially-remember the big drought years when the bait fish spawn areas were negatively affected. It caused  a real drop in  return rates. I might agree that since then there has been a more balanced number of stocked fish but I would love to know how they predict return numbers when you factor the natural reproduction.
  I really wish they would give up on the skamania and maybe the atlantics and seriously increase Brown stocks.. The brown seem to get a better return for the effort put into them.
  I know I know there will be squack from the one guy who ever caught a skamania and both guys who caught an atlantic.
#40
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/20 03:36:33 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: draketrutta

ORIGINAL: waDerboy


ORIGINAL: draketrutta

I pay my share in taxes for my camp in NY and I follow all the regs.

My problem is that I have no problem speaking the truth, and some folks can't handle the truth - like the fact that the SR is a man-made fishery built solely for economic reasons, and the fact that the DEC ignores 90% of the BS that goes on along that river because the powers that be don't want to put a padlock on their cash register drawer.

It will be a cold day in Haydes before I play Deputy Dog like a growing number of joker trib fishermen.

I give the Lake Charter Community more respect, at least they are honest about their intentions and their actions.


This quote of yours does say fthe fishery was built solely
for economoc reasons doesn't it.
You are 100% wrong on that. Remember them dying alwives. That is what it was created for. WHAT HAS HAPPENED AFTER THAT DOES NOT CHANGE THE REASON IT WAS CREATED.
Backpedal all you want but since it is now quoted you can't deny what you said.
Either you didn't know the reason salmon were first planted or you a to stupid to have worded it correctly. Now go back to being Miss Grundy of the spelling police. YOU GOT NOTHING.


And I stand by my statement.

My comment to Metalslayer regarding the alewives was sarcastic, and it obviously flew right over your head....

If the reduction of alewives was the primary factor behind the need for the SR hatchery, then obviously the State of NY ignored less expensive methods such as pen rearing fingerling Salmon imported from other locations.

And they ignored ramping up the numbers of other Alewive predators such as Lake Trout, Walleye, and Bass.

Until YOU can provide a bonafide link to a govt agency that states the SOLE PURPOSE for the construction of the SR Hatchery was to eliminate the alewive population, then YOU GOT NOTHING.

I suggest you do some further research to prove me wrong - before you preach from the top of your simple-minded Guide Rock..


Backpedal faster! Now you want to change it to the hatcher. Did you mention that in the first post I quoted? The hatchery was built in the 80s. The fishery was started in the 60s.
If you can't figure that sequence out it means the fishery was started LONG BEFORE the hatchery was built.
Unless you can post a government link stating the coho were stocked solely for economic reasons you are still 100% a moron.

I never said it hasn't developed into a cash register based fishery. You did say it was CREATED solely for economic reasons.
#41
dimebrite
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/20 06:41:07 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: salmotrutta

How does one get 40 hookups in a morning? 

in the lower river this can be very common. sat the 11th this was the case for my father and I. maybe a few were foul hooked drake but that's it. the 3 i landed were in the mouth and one was back in the throat. last year my father and I had a 100+ hook up day in mid september when the fish were really running. i guess someone is going to ask me how does one have a 100 hook up morning next. maybe i'm gonna hold back from numbers from now on. nobody ever belives me anyway. how about that 100= hookup day i had for steelies back in 91.. oops why did i say that... why must i lie...
#42
washdog
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/20 09:19:12 (permalink)
I've been reading along Dime. I'll be that guy. 100+ hookups in a morning?  I'm calling B.S. on that one.  Lets say a morning is 6hrs. and a hundred hookups in a morning, thats one every 3.6 minutes, roughly. 
I didn't even figure in a few pee breaks, a snack break or a drink of water, and some break offs that required retying. So what is that?  A hook up every 2 1/2 min. avg.?


So what exactly do you count as a hook up ?  Just curious...

If the fish remained on the line even momentarily for you to consider it a countable hook up, that means you wound up, recast, and had another fish on every 2 -3  min. non stop for six hours.  C'mon Dude.  Maybe you should keep the numbers to yourself.


B.S. 
post edited by washdog - 2010/09/20 09:51:44
#43
hot tuna
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/20 09:58:17 (permalink)
Hey DB, 2 weeks ago 9/11 I seen 2 guys fishing below the glide at the tip of the Island. One an older gent , looked like father & son .. they left around noonish , Was that you guys ?
#44
draketrutta
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/20 11:12:22 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: waDerboy
This quote of yours does say fthe fishery was built solely
for economoc reasons doesn't it.

Backpedal faster! Now you want to change it to the hatcher.

 
 
The SR Hatchery and SR fishery are one in the same.
 
Tell me boy wonder, how many folks fished the SR back in the pre-hatchery years?
 
If it were not for the cement pond, then the SR would not have a sustainable fishery. 
 
As a result, you would most likely be punching a time clock instead of standing on a rock.
 
 
#45
retired guy
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/20 14:08:53 (permalink)
Sounds like the dsr was "on fire" again-the most important thing for Pulaski isnt the fish return its the fishermen return- this kind of stuff just makes guys stay home and go bluefishing.
#46
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/20 16:41:57 (permalink)
DSR report confirmed by my father. he hooked an estimated 75 fish this morning and landed 15. 90 percent cohoes all bright silver.

washdog: i don't have to prove myself to anyone. been fishing for 22 years up there... no reason to lie... when it comes to salmon i fish what i call prime water. plus i fish way down low before the fish spread out. let's put it this way. i fish areas in which i have a drift to any vein that the salmon might run and i target the areas in which they rest for small periods of time in between fast pocket water. you'd be surprised sometimes even for full days at a time the same fish will hold. and most people would never imagine. and it's not small width from bank to bank. it's actually fairly big water. so even mornings when just maybe 200 fish swim by me; (which is an estimate; i never really know because i rarely see any fish in the water i fish) i have persistent presentation to all fish swimming by me. i have had 100 hookup days...not just one, but many. my best steelhead day was in 1991 a week before christmas in the joss hole and me my brother and father hooked steelhead all day long from 8am til 4 pm. easily over a hundred fish hooked between the 3 of us. so you don't have to believe me. i don't really care. i just figured i'd share the stories with you.

Tuna: was down stream from glide but not right below it... depending on where my hooked up fish brought me i was anywhere from 3/8 to 1 mile downstream from glide. i had one fish take me about a half mile downstream, and it was only around 14 - 15 pounds. i heard you say your arms were sore the sunday of the 13th so you know what i'm talking about. i missed that morning, and i wish i hadn't...
#47
dimebrite
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/20 17:00:26 (permalink)
i meant sunday the 12th... sorry...
#48
hot tuna
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/20 17:15:56 (permalink)
DB, just had to ask because my buddy netted a fish for the older gent.. I told the guy with him It was my friends first time.. I have seen these 2 guys I assume father son, many times in dsr..

You are throwing out huge #'s.. I have had great days fishing & guiding salmon but nothing close to that , fishing wise.. not that it's impossible..

Here was our great day : My friend , his son and friend..
the boys were 2 for 2 on salmon 1 for 1 on browns:: no fish lost.. No fish Snagged or foulhooked..
learning the basics






ME


My favorite:



post edited by hot tuna - 2010/09/20 17:18:09

"whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
#49
waDerboy
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/21 08:07:47 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: draketrutta

ORIGINAL: waDerboy
This quote of yours does say fthe fishery was built solely
for economoc reasons doesn't it.

Backpedal faster! Now you want to change it to the hatcher.



The SR Hatchery and SR fishery are one in the same.

Tell me boy wonder, how many folks fished the SR back in the pre-hatchery years?

If it were not for the cement pond, then the SR would not have a sustainable fishery. 

As a result, you would most likely be punching a time clock instead of standing on a rock.




Thousands! The coho runs of the early 70s (hatchery finished in 80s) were spectacular.
The first real planting were in the late 60s. How does that make the hatchery and the fishery the same? You said it was CREATED solely for economic reasons not that it exists because of them. Try changing the subject again maybe I won't notice this time. MORON!
Um I am not sure who you think you are talking about but I haven't guided since the year after my son's arrival (prior commitments with clients had to be kept) and he is 22 now. That is right it means I was in the first group of licensed guides.
What rock are you speaking of since when I was guiding I covered from the monkey water below rt 52 to the lower clay.
#50
draketrutta
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/21 09:49:35 (permalink)
I'm not changing the subject.
 
Once again, I ask you for a link to a bona fide govt website to substantiate your claim that the SR hatchery (which feeds and supports the SR fishery) was built to control the alewive population as you claim - vs- economic reasons.
 
Put up or shut up.
 
http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/21663.html
 
Here's a link to the DEC website. Perhaps you should contact them and request that they edit the second sentence in the second paragraph.
 
#51
waDerboy
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/21 12:13:18 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: draketrutta

I'm not changing the subject.

Once again, I ask you for a link to a bona fide govt website to substantiate your claim that the SR hatchery (which feeds and supports the SR fishery) was built to control the alewive population as you claim - vs- economic reasons.

Put up or shut up.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/21663.html

Here's a link to the DEC website. Perhaps you should contact them and request that they edit the second sentence in the second paragraph.


I never claimed the hatchery was not built for that reason.
Stop talking about the hatchery now, you didn't mention it in your first post. You said the FISHERY was created SOLELY for economic reasons. My claim is that the FISHERY, first stockings in late 60s, was an attempt to control the alwive population.
Show me any credible site that says the hatchery had anything to do with the creation of the fishery which happened a decade before it was built.
#52
waDerboy
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/21 12:24:32 (permalink)
Try this on for size. I recommend you find someone to read the forth paragraph to you.
http://www.seagrant.sunysb.edu/glsportfish/article.asp?ArticleID=171
#53
waDerboy
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/21 12:25:58 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: waDerboy

Try this on for size. I recommend you find someone to read the forth paragraph to you.
http://www.seagrant.sunysb.edu/glsportfish/article.asp?ArticleID=171

So you can feel free to change the subject again.
#54
draketrutta
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/21 12:31:22 (permalink)
I said SR Fishery - not Lake Ontario fishery!
 
There is a major difference.
 
Without the SR hatchery, the SR fishery would not be the cash register that it is.
 
What the **** is so hard to undertand?
 
I never claimed that the SR hatchery was built to create the Lake O fishery.
 
Revive, enhance, and provide economic stimulus to the fishery yes.
 
I'm still waiting for your link professor.
 
 
#55
pafisher
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/21 13:44:39 (permalink)
Hey Tuna,those are GREAT pictures,that's what it's all about,those boys will have great memories with their dad......good stuff!

Wader and Drake...continue.
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waDerboy
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/21 14:29:41 (permalink)
No the SR fishery was just started to have those cohos, that were planted to keep the alwives in check, come back to the weir for egg collection. And by the way the reason they needed to get them at the weir is because there was no hatchery at the start of the fishery. Or don't those tens of thousand of cohos I fished to count as the fishery for some reason?
What is so hard for you to grasp about the fishery coming before the hatchery and that it was initiated not for economic reasons but rather to control the bait fish die offs of the 60s.
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draketrutta
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/21 14:57:34 (permalink)
Once again - I never mentioned the entire Lake Ontario fishery which you continue to focus on. You also ignored my point about alternative predator species which could have kept the alewive #'s in check or the ability to increase salmonoid stocking in the lake without the need for the SR hatchery.
 
Your sea grant link provided information about the entire Lake Ontario ecosystem and was not SR (focus on the word RIVER) specific.
 
Carry On.
 
 
 
#58
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/21 17:45:08 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: hot tuna

Hey DB, 2 weeks ago 9/11 I seen 2 guys fishing below the glide at the tip of the Island. One an older gent , looked like father & son .. they left around noonish , Was that you guys ?


I first read this & I thought you said you saw 2 guys blowing a guide at the tip of the island. Hahahaha!

Lyrical
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waDerboy
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RE: Browns and Steelhead 2010/09/22 03:53:35 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: draketrutta

Once again - I never mentioned the entire Lake Ontario fishery which you continue to focus on. You also ignored my point about alternative predator species which could have kept the alewive #'s in check or the ability to increase salmonoid stocking in the lake without the need for the SR hatchery.

Your sea grant link provided information about the entire Lake Ontario ecosystem and was not SR (focus on the word RIVER) specific.

Carry On.




Focus on the fact that the SR fishery started because that was a controlled flow where they could set up their wier for collecting the coho eggs for the next generation. That is the origin of the SR Pacific salmion fishery. The economic benifit had nothing to due with it.
It was you that stated the fishery was created SOLELY FOR ECONOMIC REASONS. bACK IT UP! lETS SEE YOUR PROOF FROM ANY ny SOURCE STATING THAT THE COHO WERE PLANTED FOR ECONOMIC REASONS.
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