QDMA's Support OF The DMP

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deerfly
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2010/09/12 18:26:18 (permalink)

QDMA's Support OF The DMP

Here is the QDMA position letter supporting the current DMP.
Date: 24 January 2010
To: Pennsylvania Game Commission
From: Steve Trupe, President, Pennsylvania State Chapter QDMA
Kip Adams, Northern Director of Education and Outreach
Re: 2010-11 Deer Season


On behalf of the Quality Deer Management Association (QDMA) and the Pennsylvania State Chapter we appreciate the opportunity to provide input on Pennsylvania’s 2010-11 deer season. The QDMA is an international nonprofit wildlife conservation organization dedicated to ensuring the future of white-tailed deer, wildlife habitat, and our hunting heritage. The QDMA has over 50,000 members including more than 3,000 of the nation’s leading wildlife, forestry and land management professionals. As such, QDMA is widely regarded as the most respected whitetail organization in the U.S.

The Pennsylvania Game Commission has made great strides in the past several years with respect to deer management. Pennsylvania’s deer herd is more in balance with the available habitat, it has a more balanced adult sex ratio, it has a more complete male age structure, and it has provided some incredible hunting experiences. Antlerless deer harvests have been predictable based on allocation rates within consistent seasons, and Pennsylvania hunters have had some fantastic buck hunting. These improvements were made possible by antler restrictions, concurrent seasons, the deer management assistance program (DMAP), the October antlerless season and a science-based approach to antlerless license allocations.

The QDMA supports the Game Commission listening to hunters and trying to improve their hunting opportunities. We ask that potential changes be thoroughly researched to provide unbiased information, and be supported by the biological staff. We understand there are political pressures on the Game Commission to make changes to the deer season, and we recognize the existing budget constraints and support a license fee increase so the Game Commission can return to full strength with regard to manpower and programs. We also support any landowner being eligible to enroll in DMAP and the opportunity to hunt on Sundays. Most importantly, we support the Game Commission’s deer management program and its measurable goal system of herd health, habitat health and deer-human conflicts.

With respect to the current proposals, we support the cottontail rabbit junior hunter season that would coincide with the ring-necked pheasant junior hunter season. This and additional junior and mentored youth hunter opportunities should be investigated. We also support the proposed additional bear hunting opportunities, especially those that would occur during the deer season. Finally, we support the Commission’s proposed policy statement on the use of fertility control agents in the Commonwealth with respect to wildlife population control. We especially approve the statement, “Fertility control agents are only to be used in conjunction with hunting and other wildlife management methods because contraception alone cannot reduce wildlife populations to healthy or socially acceptable levels.”

We’d like to commend the Game Commission on its successful deer management program. We realize there are places in the Commonwealth where deer herds are below what the habitat can support, but these situations can be addressed and corrected within the framework of the existing program. Overall, the Commonwealth’s deer herds are more in balance with the habitat, and have better adult age structures and sex ratios than they’ve had in decades. Current seasons also provide abundant recreational and harvest opportunities while ensuring for the future health of our herds and habitats.

These are a few of the reasons Pennsylvania recently ranked second out of 13 Northeastern states with regard to its deer management program. QDMA analyzed and ranked all states in the Northeast, Southeast, and Midwest regions with respect to their deer management programs. Specifically, states were ranked on four variables that assessed the percentage of a state’s deer herd that was in balance with the habitat, the age structure of the buck segment of the population, and the adult sex ratio. These variables are an index to herd and habitat health, and Pennsylvania outranked 11 of the other 12 Northeastern states. The Pennsylvania Game Commission was formally recognized for this accomplishment during a press conference last week at the Shooting Hunting and Outdoor Trade (SHOT) Show in Las Vegas. Log on to QDMA.com and select QDMA’s 2010 Whitetail Report for a complete look at the analysis and ranking, as well as other important deer management and hunting issues in the U.S.

We recognize the difficult task before you today and hope you continue managing Pennsylvania’s deer herd using concurrent seasons, antler restrictions, DMAP, an October antlerless season and antlerless allocations based on the wildlife staff’s science-based recommendations. Thank you for your time and commitment to Pennsylvania’s natural resources.


Respectfully,


Steve Trupe
Pennsylvania State Chapter President

Kip Adams
Director of Education & Outreach


If we now have fantastic buck hunting ,what did we have when we harvested 203K buck instead of 108K in 2009?
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    World Famous
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/12 18:45:29 (permalink)
    Dear Steve and Kip: Kiss my ****. Sincerly World Famous
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    MuskyMastr
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/12 20:48:46 (permalink)
    Dear Steve and Kip,

    Come hunt some areas with me and then try in good conscience to spew more of your garbage.

    Sincerely,

    Me

    P.S. What WF said ^

    Better too far back, than too far forward.
    #3
    S-10
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/13 06:49:29 (permalink)
    You have to remember that the QDMA was founded by a forester, and some of the things Pa has done were recommended by the QDMA. The biggest thing to remember is that having many bucks or large bucks carry very little weight in how they rate deer management programs.One look at their ratings for the states should confirm that. The states with the history of producing the most quality bucks don't fare nearly as well in their ratings as do the states that are reducing their herds the most. QDMA is great for folks managing private chunks of land and planting crops to raise deer because they put out info to help but suck when done on a state level because they are more inline with the timber industries ideas that the fewer deer the better. Just like with Alt's claims and promises, some of the claims they have made have proven to be wrong and they have been hard pressed to explain why. They built their reputation by working with private landowners with a common goal regarding herd management and could lose it by trying to influence States deer management programs.
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    S-10
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/13 08:25:19 (permalink)
    To put our 2nd place ranking in the Northeast in perspective consider this------Vermont was ranked 1st, and Rhode Island was ranked 3rd.

    To further put their rankings in perspective consider this----in the Midwest, Ohio did not make the top five, also Illinois (the all time leader in numbers of record bucks in all catagories) did not make the top five.
    #5
    Dr. Trout
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/13 09:37:55 (permalink)
    You have to remember that the QDMA was founded by a forester



    Interesting ????

    As a member, all my literature credits wildlife biologists Al Brothers and Murphy Ray Jr.for the QDM movement starting in the 1960s in Texas....

    Later in South Carolina another BIOLOGIST Joe Hamilton, started a South Carolina QDM group ... then later others started and became today QDMA....

    post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/09/13 09:53:50
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    Dr. Trout
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    wayne c
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/13 10:27:33 (permalink)
    Pa Qdma is nothing but a politically driven yes man organization. I believe there are many state chapters where that isnt the case. Though just like pgc, you have some bad apples in high places. Qdm is relatively new in Pa and member & officers were badly needed by qdma here. Some of the big environmentalist proponents of the deer plan saw the opportunity to take positions and gain what some might percieve as legitimacy in the eyes of sportsmen, and self manufactured support for pgc and the deer plan in a time when they felt it was badly needed.

    Here you see as much or more time spent by qdma officers lobbying for highly controversial Marcellus Gas Taxes, supporting a failed deer program, and other things definately not in the best interest of our sportsmen, as they do qdma basics as they pertain to deer, property improvement etc..

    Thats what happens when yoiu have people with agendas and an organization where anyone and everyone is welcome to hold a position in the organization just to fill seats in attempt to expand the national organization.

    post edited by wayne c - 2010/09/13 10:30:41
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    deerfly
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/13 10:31:12 (permalink)
    The last two paragraphs on page 30 explain why QDM is not a suitable statewide plan for states like PA with high hunting pressure and no sanctuaries on public land open to hunting.
    #9
    Dr. Trout
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/13 10:43:26 (permalink)
    Those two paragraphs also show me why Pa will never be a trophy buck state and why I NEVER thought that AR would lead to alot of trophy bucks getting killed here..

    hunting pressure, killing of 80% of all legal bucks yearly, lack of sanctuaries on all the public lands we have here in Pa, and many many areas of poor habitat (those golden rod fields)...
    #10
    S-10
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/13 14:59:26 (permalink)
    Have you ever hunted the strip mines in Ohio Doc? Goldenrod, multi floria Rose, Larch, and pines, cover to be sure but not much else except lots of big bucks and no AR.
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    Dr. Trout
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/13 15:59:02 (permalink)
    There's got to be a food source somewhere...
    other than what you listed..

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    Esox_Hunter
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/13 16:11:57 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: S-10

    Have you ever hunted the strip mines in Ohio Doc? Goldenrod, multi floria Rose, Larch, and pines, cover to be sure but not much else except lots of big bucks and no AR.



    Ohio also has roughly the same area as PA and total population density. The only difference is that they sell about half of the licenses PA sells, which just MAY have something to do with the Ohio hunting situation. Not a very fair comparison IMO.
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    Dr. Trout
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/13 16:14:45 (permalink)
    Although the law is thick with minute details, the heart of it is that strip-mined land must be returned to a condition as good as or better than it was before it was strip-mined. Civil penalties are provided for noncompliance.


    One company (The Ohio Power Company) list $10,000 per acres as the cost to re-do strip mines to better than before according to Ohio laws...

    so yes strip mines could end up making great hunting spots, even a few of them in Pa....
    but again we were looking at the state as a whole not singling out particular areas...

    And again comparing Pa to other states is not a very good argeument when it comes to climate, growing season, habitat, hunter pressure, weapons, season lengths, etc etc...
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    wayne c
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/13 16:27:13 (permalink)
    "There's got to be a food source somewhere..."

    And over most of Pa, there is, and always was even prior to the failed deer program and excessive reductions.

    "other than what you listed.."


    Btw doc, multiflora rose is quality winter deer browse.

    post edited by wayne c - 2010/09/13 16:31:22
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    Dr. Trout
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/13 17:08:19 (permalink)
    Btw doc, multiflora rose is quality winter deer browse.



    and I said it wasn't where ???????

    Here's another good read ====

    http://www2.uwrf.edu/biology/electives_dir/wildlife_dir/treeshrubvine.htm
    post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/09/13 17:11:20
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/13 17:55:16 (permalink)
    Am I the only one who read they support the use of fertility drugs in Pa or am I loking at that statement wrong??....WF
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    wayne c
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/13 18:00:46 (permalink)
    You're right on WF. Pgc supports it.. They came out and made their policy statement on the matter and its a pro-use policy. That should have been one very very big warning flag. And it doesnt matter one bit their ridiculous explanations or their attempts to downplay it, or their asnine "conditional"s statements which dont amount to much and are subject to change at a moments notice anyway. Pgc should have stated that given all that is known on the subject, and their (supposed) pro-HUNTER/HUNGING policies, they will have a NO USE policy in the state. But they did just the opposite.

    Qdma says they support pgcs stance. If they absolutely insist on supporting it, I suggest they start testing the stuff on some of those little off limits over populated qdma deer farms.


    Doc says: "and I said it wasn't where ??????? "


    Doc said prior to that in a post: There's got to be a food source somewhere...
    other than what you listed..


    s10's post doc was replying to: Have you ever hunted the strip mines in Ohio Doc? Goldenrod, multi floria Rose, Larch, and pines, cover to be sure but not much else except lots of big bucks and no AR


    You didnt say it. But it sure looked like you implied it. And depending on the type, some species of pines are some quality browse as well.
    post edited by wayne c - 2010/09/13 18:09:26
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/13 19:37:55 (permalink)
    Yes Wayne, it's called foot in the door; then it's too late. Isn't any way, shape or form to get around it then. And this is supported by QDM. Refer them to mine and MM's post a little bit above. Lets hear from the supporters of fertility drugs, has to be a side and I'm ignorant....WF
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    Dr. Trout
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/13 19:38:34 (permalink)
    I said there haas to be a foodf source somewhere... meaning a better food source other than what he listed.... sure they may eat all he listed but my money is on there is better food somewhere near by too...

    deer will eat almost anything if they have to, I have shared photos of them eating ferns around here for lack of anything better to eat...
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    Dr. Trout
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/13 19:45:58 (permalink)
    fertility drugs in Pa ====


    awhile back I had an E-mail about using those on Pa deer from Kip Adams...that I shared on my board.. and maybe here.. I do not remember if it is here or not ????

    basically he said they are a tool for controlling deer populations, but they bring along some baggage too..


    you can not eat the meat for a period of time after injecting the deer...

    the cost is thru the roof and he feels PA could not afford to do it...

    not all doe recover well

    and it is not 100% guaranteed to do the job on all females..

    and finally it is not a one time deal.. they have to be re-injected in later years again adding to the cost..


    so while QDMA and the PGC may think it is a good tool and worthy of support they do not say it is good or would work well for PA....

    post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/09/13 19:48:19
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    deerfly
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/14 16:55:02 (permalink)
    deer will eat almost anything if they have to, I have shared photos of them eating ferns around here for lack of anything better to eat...


    Deer will eat certain species of ferns even when they have plenty of other things to eat, but they don't like the hay scented ferns which dominate many ares in the NC counties.
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/14 19:09:13 (permalink)
    Goldenrod fields contain more than goldenrod to feed on and are excellent bedding/hiding areas until the snow knocks them down. That comment was more a shot at someone for suggesting that goldenrod fields was part of the reason why we don"t have good bucks. That same person has also always talked about all those impossible to hunt large areas of striped maple on public land. Wouldn"t they qualify as sanctuaries?
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    wayne c
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/14 19:47:29 (permalink)
    I said there haas to be a foodf source somewhere... meaning a better food source other than what he listed.... sure they may eat all he listed but my money is on there is better food somewhere near by too...

    deer will eat almost anything if they have to, I have shared photos of them eating ferns around here for lack of anything better to eat...


    Problem is doc, we werent talking about deer eating just "anything" and definately not talking about deer being desparate and needing to eat vegetation similar to ferns.... Some varieties of pine, and multi-rose are QUALITY winter deer browse, and not just garbage that they only eat to stay alive because nothing else exists and theyre desparate.
    post edited by wayne c - 2010/09/14 19:53:11
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    wayne c
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/14 19:50:05 (permalink)
    "so while QDMA and the PGC may think it is a good tool and worthy of support they do not say it is good or would work well for PA...."


    Im not seeing the 'comforting' part of that statement doc. lol.

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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/14 22:30:00 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: wayne c

    You're right on WF. Pgc supports it.. They came out and made their policy statement on the matter and its a pro-use policy. That should have been one very very big warning flag. And it doesnt matter one bit their ridiculous explanations or their attempts to downplay it, or their asnine "conditional"s statements which dont amount to much and are subject to change at a moments notice anyway. Pgc should have stated that given all that is known on the subject, and their (supposed) pro-HUNTER/HUNGING policies, they will have a NO USE policy in the state. But they did just the opposite.

    Qdma says they support pgcs stance. If they absolutely insist on supporting it, I suggest they start testing the stuff on some of those little off limits over populated qdma deer farms.


    Doc says: "and I said it wasn't where ??????? "


    Doc said prior to that in a post: There's got to be a food source somewhere...
    other than what you listed..


    s10's post doc was replying to: Have you ever hunted the strip mines in Ohio Doc? Goldenrod, multi floria Rose, Larch, and pines, cover to be sure but not much else except lots of big bucks and no AR


    You didnt say it. But it sure looked like you implied it. And depending on the type, some species of pines are some quality browse as well.

     
    Where are you getting the idea that the Game Commission supports the use of anti-fertility drugs being used on deer?
     
    That is not the case at all and in fact is just the opposite, that is why they developed regulations that PREVENT anyone from using them without first getting a permit to do so. There are many hoops that anyone would have to go through before using them that would very much limit there use to only a few places where hunting can’t be used as a management tool.
     
    What the Game Commission REALLY did was take steps to close the door so people couldn’t start using GonaCon, which is the only immunocontraceptive vaccine currently approved by the EPA, to control deer populations without first getting a very restricted and limited use permit.
     
    Without the Game Commission taking those steps the door would have been open for anti-hunting organizations to use GonaCon.
     
    R.S. Bodenhorn
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    S-10
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/15 09:16:30 (permalink)
    I think the concern over the use of GonaCon has more to do with the current lack of trust in the PGC since we were exposed to the lies, half truths, and mis-leading statements used to sell AR/HR and since to justify it. When we see the PGC instituting a herd reduction program following the steps laid out by the Audubon (who doesn't allow deer hunting on their properties)it doesn't give one much confidence. Roe said it won't be used on his watch. They also said we had 1,600,000 deer and their HR salesman moved to Calif to be with his anti hunting friends. Time will tell.
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    wayne c
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/15 16:14:14 (permalink)
    ""Given the unproven nature of these drugs to control or manage a free-ranging deer population, any Game Commission guidelines for their use will be designed to rigorously test this drug in real world circumstances""



    That sure as hell doesnt sound like a NO use policy. There are also more statements to that effect. I also was saw the live webcast meeting where it was discussed and policy was voted on.
    post edited by wayne c - 2010/09/15 16:16:43
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    deerfly
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/15 16:20:24 (permalink)
    Remember Alt said that if hunters didn't kill enough deer he would do whatever it took to reduce the herd!
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    wayne c
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    RE: QDMA's Support OF The DMP 2010/09/15 16:24:56 (permalink)
    Interesting snippets from the pgc website on the 2009-2018 DEER PLAN page;

    Objective 2.4. In addition to hunting, provide options to reduce deer impacts on landowners and communities
    Strategies
    2.4.1. Discourage deer feeding and support local ordinances that prohibit deer feeding in developed areas through 2018
    2.4.2. Annually provide permits on a request basis to communities to lethally remove deer in accordance with Deer Control Permits
    2.4.3. Develop a written policy on deer fertility control agents by 2009, then review and update the policy as needed
    2.4.4. Review and revise regulations regarding Deer Control Permits
    2.4.5. Investigate potential deer management tools via review of scientific literature and field study by 20122.4.6. Develop a standard operating procedure for issuing permits in accordance with Deer Control Permits by 2012
    2.4.7. Identify approved, management options that reduce deer impacts by 2014


    Is anyone here naive enough not to see the writing on the wall? lol.
    post edited by wayne c - 2010/09/15 16:26:32
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