deerfly 
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/27 20:26:16
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ORIGINAL: dpms
tull66,
One of my best areas is a farm game co-op open to anyone that asks. Great hunting exists in Pa. for those that want to find it.Â
Did more great hunting exist in PA when we were harvesting 203K buck or does more great hunting exist now that we are harvesting 108K buck? If more hunters moved to the areas with better hunting,would the sustainable buck harvest increase? Do you believe that there are significant areas in PA with good deer populations that are under hunted? If so, would you please identify those areas.
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dpms
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/27 23:33:06
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ORIGINAL: deerfly
Did more great hunting exist in PA when we were harvesting 203K buck or does more great hunting exist now that we are harvesting 108K buck? If more hunters moved to the areas with better hunting,would the sustainable buck harvest increase? Do you believe that there are significant areas in PA with good deer populations that are under hunted? If so, would you please identify those areas.
In general, it is my opinion that deer hunting remains good in this state as a whole. Was it better 9 years ago? In general, yes, but great hunting still exists in many areas statewide. Yes, I believe there are underhunted areas but those with easy access are probably tough to find.
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deerfly
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/28 08:07:48
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In general, yes, but great hunting still exists in many areas statewide. Great hunting only exists where the plan has failed to achieve it's goals. If the plan was a success statewide the areas that currently have the best hunting would have some of the worst deer hunting in the state. With a goal of 6 DPSM in 5C deer hunting in 5C would be almost non-existent instead of being ranked second in the state for deer harvested PSM.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/28 10:43:06
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well I said I wouldn't but since no one else has the courage .. or had taken the time to get figures here's what I found over the past few days... ""other states have better success rates"" you do the math and see how bad it is in Pa.... Two larger states... one with a better harvest and one with lower and the number of hunters... Michigan = 440,000+ Harvest... 686.000 hunters.. buck harvest down 14%, antlerless down 5% Minnesota = 180,000+ harvest... 482,613 hunters other smaller states near by ... Ohio = 230,00+ Harvest... 500,000 hunters.. one in twenty hunters are from out-of-state New York = 222,000+ Harvest same as last year... million hunters.. antlerless up 3%... bucks down3.5% Virginia = 256,500+ Harvest... 400,000 hunters... harvest was down 7% -------------------------------------------------- For the deer per square mile fans.. deer harvested per square mile in each of those states... Michigan = 7.52 Penna = 6.82 Virginia = 6.57 Ohio = 5.57 New York = 4.54 Minnesota = 2.13 ... which by the way has NEVER harvest 0ver 300,000 deer (PA last year)that I could find... I agree with dpms -- over-all it is still not to bad here in Pa even with less deer and less hunters than in the past... oh and beenthere wanted a place or two with good hunting for deer in Pa .. I can only speak of my area = 2F... #1.. Clear Creek State Forest #2.. Many areas of SGL#54 #3.. Many areas of SGL#44 Now that being said.. I could put ten of you in ten different areas in those three places and you would NEVER see a deer .... you have to go where the deer are and that takes a little scouting and preparing... Many of the old "GOOD" areas do not support many deer anymore... so that that 1994 hot spot maybe be the worst possible spot to hunt here in 2010.. and I see cars parked at some of those every year... 
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/08/28 11:10:16
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deerfly
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/28 13:02:00
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oh and beenthere wanted a place or two with good hunting for deer in Pa .. I can only speak of my area = 2F...
#1.. Clear Creek State Forest
#2.. Many areas of SGL#54
#3.. Many areas of SGL#44 Do those areas have good hunting because the plan has succeeded in reducing the herd to the desired goal or do they have good hunting because the plan has failed to reduce the herd in those areas? Is hunting in those areas better or worse than it was in 2000?
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Dr. Trout
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/28 13:53:36
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In my opinion those areas are good because = Not many hunt there anymore , and no I do not know why that is, I do know it is not because of lack of deer in general... maybe they moved on because of a lack in the areas that had grown use to hunting.. I do know clear creek is at 12 dpsm and that's by officals I talked to ... that's pretty much where they wanted to be as a goal. And report re-generation is good and could support a few more deer already. They issued a little over 200 DMAPs and only had 20 reported kills last year ... but also noticed a lack of hunters after the first day... SGL#54 .. where I live still has many areas of lots of deer and the same areas where there were always few deer still have few deer... The bucks are not running around as much, and except at night with a spotlight few are being seen driving around. I am not sure it is an overall lack of bucks though... just older and getting more nocturnal... The couple square miles behind my place has NEVER been good for seeing a large number of bucks.. two or three harvested a year and even less since AR.... genes ???? .. still lots of small ones... the larger smarter ones travel an exta mile or two and spend the season on posted ground that has been posted since 1960s.... We are seeing some MONSTERS in the fields at night , but those of us who live here or have hunted here for many years know they will not be huntable come December.. As for other areas of SGL#54 and SGL#44.. the hunter has to be willing to do a lot of walking and going into the "thick stuff"... those that do that are still getting nice bucks and seeing deer... I saw so real beauties at work last season from those areas as well as local private property.. I will and have always admitted living here has an advanage over those that just get to come here to hunt... and the final reason I say good is because most of the hunters I talk to at work are happy with the deer hunting around here...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/08/28 16:06:37
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bingsbaits
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/28 15:00:51
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And you also think and have posted before that "Hunting Bucks during the rut is easy." " That we should not hunt the Elk herd in Pa as it is too easy." Gleening info from people you are selling cigarettes to at a general store is not really scientifically sound data..Some of those folks could be pulling yopur chain. Just mabee.....
"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
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Dr. Trout
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/28 15:13:18
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well the nice bucks I am talking about from last year for example are bucks that were in someone's truck dead.... other who said they got bucks maybe not telling the truth, I just took their word for it..but I did not give them alot of credit. I was referring to the ones I saw... now it is true some of the ones saying the deer hunting here is still good maybe "pullin my leg".. but if it were bad I would guess that would be complaining about it... don't get me wrong there are those that are complaining... but if I take the time to talk to them and they tell me where they were hunting I can see why.. Believe it or not but this is true... last year two guys came in complaining about hunting Clear Creek on Friday of the first week .. I suggested a place to go on Saturday over there... FAR from where they were hunting (3 miles away  ) and told them how I would hunt it... they came in Sunday and told me they each got a deer... one six point (small) and a doe.... and even brought me a food plate ...  as for bucks during the rut.. I said easy based on the fact the bucks are moving.. chasing and looking for does.. not hiding like they do after pressure from bear season and then come rifle season... again this is for my area... bear hunting is very popular around here and Jefferson usually gets about 60 bear each year.. so there is pressure in the woods... especially from your friends the "blue army" I'm even such a nice guy that on Sept 9th I am meeting one of my friend from Harrisburg who was afraid he would not get a 2f tag so he got a clear creek DMAP and I'll show him 3 or 4 spots to go to fill that tag...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/08/28 15:36:00
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Dr. Trout
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/28 16:08:42
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dpms
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/28 16:34:49
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Doc, Pa. does have some fine big game opportuinities including deer, bear, elk and turkey. There are many states and hunters across this country that would like to have what we have right here within our borders. Of course, I realize that you already know this. Thanks for adding some numbers to the discussion.
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tull66
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/28 17:02:03
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ORIGINAL: bingsbaits
And you also think and have posted before that
"Hunting Bucks during the rut is easy."
" That we should not hunt the Elk herd in Pa as it is too easy." Bing, Do you think hunting rutting bucks is hard? Do you think elk hunting in PA is difficult? ORIGINAL: bingsbaits
Gleening info from people you are selling cigarettes to at a general store is not really scientifically sound data..Some of those folks could be pulling yopur chain. Just mabee..... What do you reccomend? Gleening from gun shops? Gleening from the internet? ...or just making it up?
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bingsbaits
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/28 17:41:54
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Yes trying to kill a mature whitetail buck during the rut is not an easy task.....
Beacuse they are moving is the exact reason you can not hardly pattern them....
When was your last buck kill Doc ?? Mabbe a few pointers from that hunting experience....
It would be easy to kill and Elk in Pa if you can get a tag..
I never said we should not hunt them beacuse it was too easy , Doc did.....
"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
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Dr. Trout
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/28 18:31:44
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only becasue you asked !! from, my 2001 hunting journal.... notice in was private property ... easy access and not the thick stuff.... and my 1st archery buck...
THURSDAY-8th-AM
Dixon Farm
Treestand
Managed to get a GOOD set-up this morning at at crossing of several trails. Lots of rubs and scrapes around. AND LOTS of open shooting lanes. I heard a deer walk by while it was still dark. At first light I could see the trail the deer took. I spotted a small "bushy" Hemlock and decided..
#1...I was harvesting ANY BUCK this morning and
#2... if another deer came the way the one did earlier this would be a good shot. As he stepped from behind the Hemlock tree at 15 yards.
Tons of grey squirrels this morning. If I had my 20 gauge I could have harvested 6 EASY !!!!
No deer moving ..
at 8:30 I heard a deer coming the same way the one eariler had. I saw it was a BIG deer ..BUT ..only a spike..
Hey what the heck.... I DO NOT eat the antlers and besides I still have NOT harvest any BUCK with my BOW
I drew and was ready..as he stepped from behind the tree I took a deep breath...AIMED.....and RELEASED.........
ONE LEAP AND HE WAS DOWN
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/08/28 20:22:03
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wayne c
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/28 20:06:36
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"Ohio = 230,00+ Harvest... 500,000 hunters.. " Thats ohio ACTUAL REPORTED HARVEST = 230,000. Compare to Pa actual reported harvest 105,192. And thats with Pa having a couple hundred thousand more hunters.
That would also render your harvest per square mile rankings inaccurate Doc.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/28 20:25:50
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Doesn't Ohio have check stations at least in 2009... many claim check stations give GREAT results of actual kills ????? THOSE ARE ALL BASED ON WHAT THE AGENCIES ARE SAYING WAS THE NUMBER OF DEER KILLED IN THAT STATE FOR 2009..... so NO... my figures are not inaccurate.... HERE'S PART A NEWSPAPER ARTICLE ABOUT LAST YEAR'S OHIO HARVEST ===
Ohio gun hunters harvest more than 114,000 deer, PA numbers still growing
by Chris Kick
WOOSTER, Ohio — The blazing orange vests and hats were blatantly visible last week in Ohio, where an estimated 420,000 hunters took to the fields and woods for the annual deer-gun season.
The numbers
Initial reports show hunters took about 1.7 percent more deer on opening day (Nov. 30) than opening day of 2008, good for more than 33,600 deer.
For the first full week of deer-gun season, Ohio hunters took more than 114,600, a couple thousand less than in 2008, when about 116,800 deer were taken. Ohio’s deer gun season ran Nov. 30-Dec. 6, and returns again for an additional weekend, Dec. 19-20.
Pennsylvania’s deer-gun season continues through Dec. 12. Kill numbers in Pennsylvania will not be available for several weeks.
Officials with Ohio Department of Natural Resources said conditions were “near ideal,†with good weather to get the season started.
Combined with deer taken during Ohio’s early muzzleloader season, the first six weeks of archery season and the recent youth deer-gun season, a preliminary total of 97,371 Ohio deer have been killed so far this year, compared to 95,074 harvested last year at this time.
.................
In all, hunters took a total of 252,017 deer during all of last year’s hunting seasons.
using this writer's figure and they were for 2008 ... it would be 6.10 dpsm which is still lower than Pa...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/08/28 20:40:48
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Dr. Trout
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/28 20:44:00
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wayne c
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/28 20:50:55
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"Doesn't Ohio have check stations at least in 2009... many claim check stations give GREAT results of actual kills ?????" Do you wanna base your statements/post on what "many claim" or on the facts? Fact is, both numbers i gave are the reported harvests. Ohio has a reported harvest, but no estimated. Pa has a reported harvest & an estimated. Naturally we cannot compare ESTIMATED harvest between the two because one of them does not have one!...But they DO BOTH have total of reported harvest. And remember in ohio thats with a couple hundred thousand less hunters to boot! "so NO... my figures are not inaccurate...." You can deny all you like. The facts speak for themselves. Just thought you'd want to know the accurate information, since you said "your an honest guy", and we wouldnt want others to think otherwise now would we? I believe it may have been just an honest mistake on your part, in regards to the data you may not have known about Ohio, or whatever, but a mistake none the less. No big deal we all make one once in awhile.
It would be no different than 100% incorrectly comparing our current harvest estimates at face value to the actual harvests that were not estimated, but only those reported prior to 1986 right here in Pa without adding in for reporting noncompliance.
post edited by wayne c - 2010/08/28 21:28:59
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deerfly
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/28 20:51:09
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Not many hunt there anymore , and no I do not know why that is, I do know it is not because of lack of deer in general... maybe they moved on because of a lack in the areas that had grown use to hunting..
I do know clear creek is at 12 dpsm and that's by officals I talked to ... that's pretty much where they wanted to be as a goal. And report re-generation is good and could support a few more deer already. Do you believe that the way to achieve better hunting is to reduce the herd to a point that hunters are no longer willing to hunt a given WMU? If Clear Creek is at 12 DPSM why would you consider that to be good deer hunting when WMU 2F is at around 12 OWDPSM and the buck harvest rate in 2009 was only 2.16 buck PSM which is the third worst harvest rate in the state. IMHO comparing PA's harvests to harvests in other states is totally irrelevant. The vast majority of PA hunters don't compare their hunting experience to what hunters experience in other states. They compare their current hunting experience to what they have experienced in their life time of hunting in pA. Those of us that are lld enough to remember know that the over browsed habitat in the NC counties supported 40 OWDPSM in the 70's.But, now the PGC claims 2G can only support 8 DPSM and 2F can only support 12 DPSM. The simple fact is that reducing the herd has not produce the predicted increase in regeneration,breeding rates or recruitment, but what it did accomplish is the lose of over 200K deer hunters.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/28 21:05:59
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IMHO comparing PA's harvests to harvests in other states is totally irrelevant. The vast majority of PA hunters don't compare their hunting experience to what hunters experience in other states. see perfect example of why I can not carry on a sincere conversation with some of you anti guy.... why are you using my quote... ??? if you read the whole thread you'll see wayne is the one who first brought up comparing Pa to other states... NOT me.. I just posted figures to show that is not completely true.... Most states have higher rates of success than Pa. Only way to find lower is to go to extreme conditions and pathetic deer density states... you have followed my stuff for years and know I could care less what other states do or how they manage their deer... I live and hunt in Pa... and BTW .... I'm old enough to remember deer hunting in the 60s ==== when deer hunting was even worse than it is now in most of the state .. you'd have gone bonkers if you had to hunt back then..... also I think if you check the PGC is not using DPSM calulations for herd size anymore... time to update your arguements... well.... I'm not getting into a pizzing contest with you two on this topic ... I jumped in to add soem figures I found and make my point about other states.. you guys can battle it out between yourselves...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/08/28 21:19:50
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wayne c
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/28 21:07:52
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"and just think wayne is complaining becuase I used 240,000 harvested...." I didnt complain about any figure you posted. It was your incorrect comparison that i was pointing out. Not sure though, what point are you trying to make? Many believe the hunting is better most other places outside of Pa. I have yet to see any data to show otherwise in regard to success rates. Especially buck success which is what many of us were talking about. Thats more indicative of things, because the doe harvest has been a product of ridiculous extreme doe tag numbers, which fluctuate from too high, to way too high, which has also resulted in a steadily declining herd. Give any state a ridiculous 850k to 1 millionk doe tags + dmap and im sure their doe harvest will climb too at first until the herd crashes. lol.
post edited by wayne c - 2010/08/28 21:09:43
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Dr. Trout
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/28 21:13:42
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last one for wayne ==== I didn't complain about any figure you posted Don't you even read what you write ??????? I'd say this is complaining about my figures === That would also render your harvest per square mile rankings inaccurate Doc. 
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wayne c
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/28 21:17:12
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"Don't you even read what you write ??????? " How bout we tell the whole story Doc? NIce wiggle, but not taking attention from the fact your were wrong and trying to twist what was said in another meaningless statement. Anyway, my statement was in reply to you saying i complained about the actual HARVEST FIGURE total you posted as you can see in your statement: "and just think wayne is complaining becuase I used 240,000 harvested.... "using this writer's figure and they were for 2008 ... it would be 6.10 dpsm which is still lower than Pa..." No it isnt. Your same error is still in play. Pa's is 2.28 reported harvest. And two is lower than 6.--------- "I just posted figures to show that is not completely true...." And how did that work out fer ya? lol "well.... I'm not getting into a pizzing contest with you two on this topic ..." Why does anytime someone disagrees with you, its gotta be a pizzing contest? Im not "battling" with anyone as you put it. I just pointed out a simple flaw in the logic you used to refute MY statement, and it was a fact, not my "opinion" in this instance. My god man, you really need to learn how to control your emotions. Noone here is out to get you. I dont see a whole lot of reason for you to be losing your temper here? Sheesh! Go head and post whatever you want to, I'll not fact check you again tonight. Im content in knowing that anyone who reads through all the jibber jabber, the facts posted will stand on their own. Im gonna finish watchin' football. 'night Doc.
post edited by wayne c - 2010/08/28 22:35:27
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wayne c
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/28 21:33:10
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"The vast majority of PA hunters don't compare their hunting experience to what hunters experience in other states." I disagree deerfly. A fair number of Pa hunters also hunt other states. I have hunted several others, and cannot think of one ive hunted that wasnt better than Pa. That includes Maryland, Ohio, Georgia and several others at one time or another. Also WV, but might be the only one id rank it as "around the same". Better numbers in WV where ive hunted, but quality is low. Then again Pa isnt anything to right home about despite Little Garys broken promises. lol.
You better believe those of us who go out of state make comparisons, naturally guys are gonna do it.
post edited by wayne c - 2010/08/28 21:34:02
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deerfly
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/29 08:05:48
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What percentage of PA deer hunters hunt out of state compared to those who only hunt PA and do they base their decision to hunt in PA on their experience in other states. I don't think so. But since 2000 over 200K PA hunters quit hunting deer and IMHO they based their decision to quit on a comparison of deer hunting prior to 2000 to the quality of deer hunting that resulted from the current DMP.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/29 08:19:48
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well thought I'd drop some thoughts before work.... I'm doing it because I found something interesting last night about the Ohio deer harvest... not to continue the arguement.. Wayne seems to want to use only Ohio because of the "reported" harvest number, but as many know I posted an e-mail before from a DNR person who runs the check stations and he admits they know even that has about a 35% gap in the true number of deer killed... regardless... If someone wants to think that Pa only harvests 105,000 "reported" deer so be it... but if that were anywhere near true then we sure as hell need more doe tags to get more killed that low of a figure is ridiculous to use as the number of deer killed in Pa deer seasons...... So I think the figures I used did make my point that deer hunting in Pa is not worse it's better than most near-by states.. did ya know what it costs to shoot a deer in Ohio for just the licenses ? Resident license = $19 Deer Permit = $24 Antlerless tag = $17 TOTAL --- $58.00 so I'd say Pa even beats Ohio when it comes to the cost of hunting deer I did fine something interesting last night I searched for Ohio deer hunting and found about 5 different figures for the total harvest in 2009... I used the 240,000+ ... I posted a link last night that was 230,000+ and found this one at 260,000+ seems they can not figure out just how many they killed ???? http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Portals/9/pdf/pub304.pdf plus I see on that report 2 of every 3 deer killed are antlerless... not much better than Pa... 1 of 5 are button bucks .... a little better than Pa, but keep in mind they shoot less overall too... so I'll stick with the original point hunting in Pa is not worse than many of the near-by states.. it';s still pretty good over-all... OFF TO WORK !!
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/08/29 08:23:59
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S-10
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/29 08:42:10
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A few things to consider.
Pennsylvania ranked first in total deer numbers for decades----now they aren't even in the top five.
Most of the positive results claimed would happen from AR/HR still have not taken place.
The all time best year for both total buck harvest AND number of bucks making the Pa. record books was 2000.
Doc's last buck was taken just prior to HR/AR but he still tells us how great things are in his area.
DPSM numbers in comparing states can be misleading because different states have different human populations.
Comparing actual reported harvest with a calculated harvest is not accurate.
Comparing number of bucks killed with number of deer hunters and calculating a % success is more accurate.
The number of bucks has increased as a % of the herd but the total numbers have decreased due to herd reduction.
People who own or control their own properties have not seen the negative effects of AR/HR as have the rest.
AR has not saved 50% of yearlings, we always moved 20% of a much larger herd into the next age group.
The introduction of food plots and farming for bigger bucks starting in the late eighties increased antler size.
The best the PGC can say about AR is they ( don't think AR will lead to long term reduction in antlr size)
There has not been an increase of Out of state hunters hunting Pa since AR/HR.
Outdoor writers and others who depend on the PGC for their information will not bite the hand that feeds them.
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bingsbaits
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/29 09:09:53
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They are not even aloud to use rifles in Ohio...
Can't even compare the two.....
"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
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S-10
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/29 10:21:43
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Tell me again how great Penna is Doc.
TOP 10 P&Y STATES
1. Illinois
2. Iowa
3. Kansas
4. Wisconsin
5. Ohio
6. Indiana
7. Minnesota
8. Missouri
9. Nebraska
10. Kentucky
Here's a few good facts to help fire you up for your bow season from this same article mentioned above:
* Only 25 typical P & Y bucks have ever been taken from South Carolina. Illinois alone is getting close to cranking out a staggering 5,000 typical P & Y whitetails!
* Out of the top 20 typicals in history, 7 of them have come from Iowa.
* Combine the best typicals from Iowa and Illinois, and the two states have produced 46 of the top 100 typical bucks in history. All of them score above 180 inches!
* Kansas has grown 9 of the top 20 scoring archery non-typicals in history.
* Total up the non-typicals from Kansas and Illinois and an astonishing 51 of the top 100 scoring non-typicals in the P & Y record book have come from these two states. All of them score over 210 inches, making them true megabucks.
* If you want to try and kill a typical deer scoring over 150 inches, your odds of success are best in Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, Kansas and Ohio.
* For non-typicals scoring over 170 inches, the top five states are Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, Kansas and Ohio.
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wayne c
Pro Angler
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/29 10:26:00
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Deerfly says: What percentage of PA deer hunters hunt out of state compared to those who only hunt PA and do they base their decision to hunt in PA on their experience in other states. I don't think so. But since 2000 over 200K PA hunters quit hunting deer and IMHO they based their decision to quit on a comparison of deer hunting prior to 2000 to the quality of deer hunting that resulted from the current DMP.
Deerfly, i was speaking of MY comparison as well as many others that hunt out of state. Of course i absolutely also comsider the hunting right here in the past as well. And they both lead me to the same conclusions. Dr. Trout says: "Wayne seems to want to use only Ohio because of the "reported" harvest number," Oh, yeah, so turn it around on ME now why dont ya. YOU are the one who brought up Ohio on your short list of states you incorrectly compared to PA! And ohio isnt the only state that doesnt estimate. MIghty funny how you whine about using reported harvest in Pa to compare to ohios same exact thing! Which i guess is fine by you in their case. lol. "but as many know I posted an e-mail before from a DNR person who runs the check stations and he admits they know even that has about a 35% gap in the true number of deer killed... regardless..." EXACTLY Dr. Trout! So their harvest would be even higher than just the "reported", just like ours. But it isnt given.... SO we cant very well compare it, if they dont give one at all, now can we?  But Pa & ohio both do have total number of reports to compare. "If someone wants to think that Pa only harvests 105,000 "reported" deer so be it... " I dont, nor has anyone else stated that on this thread. I think you are very much not understanding what you read. I said OHIO HARVESTAS MORE than THEIR reported number given! They dont add for noncompliance. And it doesnt matter to do so, or not do so is fine for a states purposes of seeing TRENDS in harvest and making management decisions. But you couldnt compare one year harvest in ohio this season, to next, if they were to go to adding noncompliance percentage! And thats exactly the same thing as what you are doing by comparing in the manner you are.lol. This is so common sense its painful to actually have to repeat it. lol. "did ya know what it costs to shoot a deer in Ohio for just the licenses ?" Resident license = $19 Deer Permit = $24 Antlerless tag = $17 TOTAL --- $58.00" Do you know what it costs to HUNT, MUZZLELOAD, ARCHERY HUNT, FISH AND TRAP in West Virginia for a res?-- THIRTY FIVE WHOPPING BUCKS! lol. Cost for all the same for Pa? Well over a hundred. Pa is far from the bottom in license fees. They also have more total funding and expenditures than any other state im aware of, Plus its increasing due to the huge gas windfall they are beginning to tap into. They just are really really good at blowing OUR money.
Fee increase? Ha ha ha ha. Me thinks NOT. Regardless of how much an individual pays, PGC gets plenty of money. They waste it and spend it using our money cutting our own throats. The majority are pizzed off about the deer situation and pgcs horrible pr..The plan has failed to produce predicted results on basically all fronts. And they want more money...thats downright hilarious.
I'll support a fee increase. Just get rid of Rosenberry & Roe & make appropriate changes to the program.... Then if they arent raking in the incredible windfall on gas wells by then as the legislative budget and finance committee predicted for them.... maybe we'll talk.
post edited by wayne c - 2010/08/29 10:47:17
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wayne c
Pro Angler
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RE: PGN Article On Antler Restrictions
2010/08/29 10:29:06
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"They are not even aloud to use rifles in Ohio...
Can't even compare the two....."
Bings, that makes it even worse in the comparison for Pa. Ohio has better success rate, and thats without even having rifle season! lol.
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