Watersnakes?

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Swans500
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2007/05/27 09:58:54 (permalink)

Watersnakes?

Yesterday while wading Turtle Creek a snake brushed past my legs!
It was about 5 feet , very slender and an even light brown in colour.
I've not lived in PA very long...any idea what species....dangerous?
#1

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    2dog
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    RE: Watersnakes? 2007/05/27 11:11:58 (permalink)

    Was this what you saw? If it was it is a northern water snake.
    #2
    Swans500
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    RE: Watersnakes? 2007/05/27 11:15:01 (permalink)
    Right shape but definately a plain unmarked light brown.
    #3
    Invicta
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    RE: Watersnakes? 2007/05/27 14:30:48 (permalink)
    probably just some type of water snake or maybe a queen snake. in PA the only snakes you need to worry about are copperheads and rattlesnakes, so whatever type of snake you saw was harmless.
    #4
    Bigguyron
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    RE: Watersnakes? 2007/05/27 14:43:44 (permalink)
    copperhead and water snakes look very very similar. only real difference is the belly copperheads have the black and white checker board and like all venomous snakes they have an arrow shaped head. 
    #5
    2dog
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    RE: Watersnakes? 2007/05/27 20:05:58 (permalink)
    Northern cooperhead, eastern massasauga rattlesnake, and timber rattlesnake. These are the only venomous snakes in Pa.  Northern cooperhead is abundant. Eastern masssasauga rattlesnake is candidate species.
    Timber rattlesnake is endangered species.
     
    The one you saw might have been close to shedding its skin. Their color and markings dull when ready to shed which would cause it to look as a single color.
    post edited by 2dog - 2007/05/27 20:12:07
    #6
    Swans500
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    RE: Watersnakes? 2007/05/28 05:58:31 (permalink)
    Thanks guys....I jumped outa my skin anyway at the time. Where I come from, West Australia, it could well have been a final encounter...LOL.
    #7
    Lochswa
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    RE: Watersnakes? 2007/05/28 19:33:54 (permalink)
    Generally as well u dont find copperheads in or near the water.
    #8
    2dog
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    RE: Watersnakes? 2007/05/28 20:11:37 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Lochswa

    Generally as well u dont find copperheads in or near the water.

     
    Found these on a few different web sites;
     
    During the warm months they may occupy a variety of habitats such as emergent wetlands, areas along streams and upland areas.
     
    Copperheads prefer rocky, forested hillsides and wetlands for habitat. Wet areas are particularly sought out in the hot summer months.
     
    Because of how adaptable the copperhead is, one may find it living in dry or wet areas, around or under rotting logs, near large flat stones by streams, and wood piles where it seeks mice and other animals for food.
     
    Copperheads can be found in most all habitats, although they often prefer to be near streams and other waterways.
    #9
    mr.fisherman
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    RE: Watersnakes? 2007/05/28 22:19:42 (permalink)
    There is plenty of snakes in our state. Living in the Burgh for all 31 years of my life, I came accross 1 copperhead and no rattlers. And in my younger years did look for them. Silverkype says they all live in his hood.

     
    ORIGINAL: 2dog

    ORIGINAL: Lochswa

    Generally as well u dont find copperheads in or near the water.


    Found these on a few different web sites;

    During the warm months they may occupy a variety of habitats such as emergent wetlands, areas along streams and upland areas.

    Copperheads prefer rocky, forested hillsides and wetlands for habitat. Wet areas are particularly sought out in the hot summer months.
     
    Because of how adaptable the copperhead is, one may find it living in dry or wet areas, around or under rotting logs, near large flat stones by streams, and wood piles where it seeks mice and other animals for food.
     
    Copperheads can be found in most all habitats, although they often prefer to be near streams and other waterways.
    #10
    SilverKype
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    RE: Watersnakes? 2007/05/28 23:17:37 (permalink)
    Hi Brad.
     
    Swan --
     
    What you saw is a water snake likely.  I very big one btw..  They are probably Pa's most aggressive and can be downright nasty.  All other Pa's snakes, will usually flee although, copperheads can be considered nasty, but they seem more curious, persistently curious sometimes.
     
    Copperheads do not reach anywhere close to 60" -- I've never seen one greater than 25 although, 3 - 3.5 feet are possible.
     
    Water snakes and copperheads resemble each other very closely, some think milk snakes are copperheads too.  It's easy for us to assume they ALL are copperheads, which I guess could be a good assumption.  However, nine times out of ten, they are water snakes.  Water snakes also vary greatly in color, based on sub-species, life cycle, and age.  Erie have their own sub-species along its tribs.  It is supposively a mix between a watersnake from the canadian side, with ours.  If you've ever seen a large snake chasing down steelhead smolt, you've likely seen the Lake Eeie watersnake. 
     
    Yes, I have seen water snakes with no patterns, just tanish like you've decsribed.  Copperheads seriously have a copper head, up close, there is a great difference in the head color versus the tanish/brown body.  As stated above, the diamond head is the dead give away and the second thing I look for.  The first being size.  If I see a snake around 20-30 inches long in the water, it certainly gets my attention.  Copperheads will almost ALWAYS swim with their head on top of the water with their entire body underneath.  Watersnakes will too, but they also will spend much time entirely under the surface (running into people's legs; ).  All other snakes I've seen in the water, swim with their head and entire body on top.  The vertical pupil also is also a way to identify a venomed snake in PA.  We don't have any fierce or brown snakes Swan!!  Thank God!!  Black snakes can make you sick from their saliva .. so they say.
     

    My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
    #11
    Bigguyron
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    RE: Watersnakes? 2007/05/28 23:20:20 (permalink)
    Live right beside a large stream, last summer killed a copperhead living under my dogs house. Called the fish and game to come check for more in the area due to dogs and kids. The ended up discovering Black snakes all over the place and a bunch of rattlers. then discovered a den with rattlers that breed with black snakes.  Heard thats the new thing in the snake world that they are seeing more of. 
    #12
    Lochswa
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    RE: Watersnakes? 2007/05/28 23:35:45 (permalink)
    Habitat: You might find a copperhead in almost any upland habitat. Northern copperheads are found in rocky areas and wooded hillsides. They are often found around sawdust piles, slab piles or rotting buildings. They are also found along wooded edges and brushy areas. Power line rights-of-way make excellent habitat if not mowed. Southern copperheads seem to prefer low-lying areas near streams and swamps, and are often confused with the cottonmouth water moccasin, which is larger (heavier-bodied) and readily swims. Copperheads prefer to avoid the water. Wooded areas with brush piles, fallen trees or logs are good habitat
     
     
    #13
    SilverKype
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    RE: Watersnakes? 2007/05/29 00:17:35 (permalink)
    bigron --
     
    Because black rat snakes lay eggs and rattlers (any pit viper) do not, that makes interbreeding impossble.  It's a myth just like the copperhead smelling like a cucumber.
     
    Lochsaw --
     
    I could post you 10 articles that say copperheads actually prefer water, many done by the PA fish and boat for the northern copperhead.  I've seen plenty during the hot summer months.  Only watersnakes in the water in the April/May timeframe.

    My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
    #14
    woodnickle
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    RE: Watersnakes? 2007/05/29 00:41:46 (permalink)
    cool thread.  I also thought coppers to be close to water.

    #15
    Lochswa
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    RE: Watersnakes? 2007/05/29 01:14:22 (permalink)
    Kype,
     
     I do not doubt you are correct. I was going from recollection of Biology classes from highschool/college from many moons ago. I did look up as much info as I could find online and the little bit I pasted and cliped was the only one that said they dont like water. Which was the way I thought I was taught must have been wrong
    #16
    Swans500
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    RE: Watersnakes? 2007/05/29 06:12:09 (permalink)
    Hi Silverkype....After reading these posts I am convinced it was a particularly lengthy water-snake. It had a head the same width as the body, not triangular, and seemed as shocked as I did as we both instantly took off in opposite directions at a rate of knots!!!!
    Also it swam off with head and body all below the surface.
    #17
    willyfister
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    RE: Watersnakes? 2007/05/29 12:14:17 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Bigguyron

    copperhead and water snakes look very very similar. only real difference is the belly copperheads have the black and white checker board and like all venomous snakes they have an arrow shaped head. 

     
    Actually it is the eastern Milk Snake that has the black and white checker board belly pattern.  http://www.fish.state.pa.us/copprhe.htm 
    #18
    smallmouth76
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    RE: Watersnakes? 2007/05/29 22:12:36 (permalink)
    I had a dog that mated with a cat wanna buy a cog?
    #19
    carpin06
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    RE: Watersnakes? 2007/05/30 00:58:21 (permalink)
    Kype i also had to convince a freind that a viper can not breed with a common..
    In my youth I played with lot's of snakes in butler co. one time a rattle snake and many copper heads..
    I still like and resepcet them and show my son's every chance i get..
    #20
    porter64
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    RE: Watersnakes? 2007/06/04 20:45:13 (permalink)
    Acually the milk snake has the checkered belly with almost identical markings on top like a copperhead!
    #21
    jerminator7777
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    RE: Watersnakes? 2007/06/07 21:10:45 (permalink)
    I guess you think you know a lot about snakes porter? You must like them?
    #22
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