"the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"???

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KJH807
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2008/09/13 09:01:05 (permalink)

"the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"???

I didn't mean to hijack the FFM thread last-night...
I don't want to start a juvenile name calling thread
I'm also not saying that fishing the erie tribs is not fun
BUT people are claiming "best in the world"
i can understand if you want to say the best in the Great Lakes
(for that you'll still get an argument)
but the world??? come'on


I think it is funny how much people **** about walnut and Elk, them 2 weeks later will call it the "the most prolific fishery in the world"
(sorry StormWarning for using your quote, not a personal thing)

what makes it prolific?

do you really think it is the best steelhead fishery in the world?
I understand some people play the numbers game...
i don't think you can classify a water as world class on #s alone

the best smallmouth?
I can name you 5 other fisheries within the Mid-atlantic that would top Erie

the best Waleye?
look to lakes in MN or ONT to top out erie

It's great that people come to fish Erie... but it is not the best in the world

i'm going fishing for these...


i expect that there will be a strong disagreement when I get back
#1

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    Stillhead
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 09:06:45 (permalink)
    Please name those other fisheries that top the smallmouth and walleye fishing on lake erie.
     
    Do any of those places have the great fishing for all these species  in the same place?
     
     
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prolific
    #2
    KJH807
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 09:17:29 (permalink)
    walleye
    Rainy Lake MN
    Lake of the Woods MN
    Standford Lake ONT
    White Otter Lake ONT

    bronzebacks
    The potomac system
    the new
    james
    BSF
    #3
    earlysecond
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 09:38:32 (permalink)
    I can drive to Erie, pulling a boat and fish the lake.  If I can learn to catch eyes there and score a really nice fish, that means there are plenty of fish.  We ovserved many full tickets on repeated days for parties of 3.  It takes 18+ hours to dirve to MN.  Less to go to ONT and I think you'll need a **** and an anal inspection when you come back to the US.
     
    Maybe, for many of us, you could "possibly" say drivable, world class fishery?  I am not sure that is fair either.
     
    Trib fishing for steelhead certainly presents another opportunity where even rank amatuers can learn enough to fair hook a limit.
     
    Again, depends on perception, accessiblilty for a definition.  I would argue that fish are in the lake and the tribs in substaintial quantity that even a rookie can score.
     
    If you do not like the label, feel free to use your own.  I belive that there are a lot of fishing opportunities to get excited about in Erie.  I live close enough to take advantage of them.
     
    MY .02
     
    Brent 
    #4
    griffon
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 09:39:41 (permalink)
    I would take Lake of the Woods for every species (obviously not steelies) over Erie any day of the week.  I would also take the Columbia River system over Erie for all but Perch and Lakers.  Missing one species does not make a body of water less prolific.  If it did, then you could say that L. Ontario is more prolific than Erie due to having tremendous numbers of Browns, Kings, and Cohos.  Many times a system that is lacking in one species more than makes up for that shortage with other species (Northerns, Muskies, Sturgeon). 
     
    As for Smallies, hands down the best smallie fishery east of the Mississippi is the New River.  It would not surprise anyone with inside information if the next world record came out of there. 
     
    #5
    KJH807
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 09:51:48 (permalink)
    brent...
    "world class" means the entire world... and yes a **** may be needed
    #6
    Noplacelikehome
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 09:58:19 (permalink)
    Tell me where in the world you could top this. 2 years ago I fished TWO days up in Erie. I caught a 40 inch 24lb 8 oz Lake Trout(in the Lake), a 10 lb Steelhead, and 6 lb Smallmouth(both in a stream by the way. My brother caught a 9 lb walleye. These were ONLY the big ones! We were fishing in early May. KJH you are obviously ONLY a carp fisherman. I hear its good carp fishing in the mighty Susquehanna River! Don't forget to pack some corn.
    #7
    griffon
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 10:03:04 (permalink)
    Lake of the Woods, no questions asked.  Instead of the Steelies though, how about 5 muskies over 40" with countless follows and more Northerns than you can shake a stick at?  How about 3-7 lb. smallies until your arms are sore?  How about pulling up to a hump and jigging walleyes as fast as you can put a bait down until a 48" Northern moves in to inspect... 
    #8
    KJH807
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 10:15:14 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Noplacelikehome

    Tell me where in the world you could top this. 2 years ago I fished TWO days up in Erie. I caught a 40 inch 24lb 8 oz Lake Trout(in the Lake), a 10 lb Steelhead, and 6 lb Smallmouth(both in a stream by the way. My brother caught a 9 lb walleye. These were ONLY the big ones! We were fishing in early May. KJH you are obviously ONLY a carp fisherman. I hear its good carp fishing in the mighty Susquehanna River! Don't forget to pack some corn.


    on any of the lakes i mentioned above...

    Rainy Lake MN 3 hrs
    2 45+ northerns
    5lb+ bronzeback
    and a handful of large walleye

    and that doesn't count the other 200+ days on fly in only lakes and rivers that i forgot

    World class is a tall order... what about mongolia, thailand, alaska, SALT

    corn comes off to easily in my backcast... dougball has more substance and i would never fish the Susky... too clean and too far to drive

    that carp was from a world class washington Co water res
    #9
    Noplacelikehome
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 10:16:29 (permalink)
    Keep dreaming
    #10
    griffon
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 10:27:16 (permalink)
    Sometimes it is not worth arguing with some people.  They don't get it and they never will...  It is a big world, get out and explore it.  You will be surprised that there are places "bigger" than where you live...
    #11
    Noplacelikehome
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 10:28:33 (permalink)
    KJH, on my last trip up to Erie(Aug 16th) My brother and I caught 108 fish. We fished from 7 till 2 P.M. We kept 60 perch(all between 8 and 13 and half inches) We caught 5 Walleye, the smallest was 18 inches, the biggest was 29 inches 9 lbs. You can talk all you want but the fact is ERIE HAS IT ALL! Numbers AND Size. You know there are some big Muskys in Erie but very few fish for them. There are quite a few Northerns as well(just fish the lagoons in early spring) I dont know about size(My biggest to date is 36 inches). Where else in the world can you have it ALL!
    #12
    Noplacelikehome
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 10:30:02 (permalink)
    Griff, I am not arguing, but stating some facts.
    #13
    griffon
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 10:31:58 (permalink)
    Wow...  60 perch  I am sure that could not be matched anywhere.  I guess a pond in Butler county would have to be the most prolific then, because I can catch twice that many bluegills in the same time.  The thing is, Erie is a great fishery, noone disputes that.  It is not the best all around fishery in the world. 
    post edited by griffon - 2008/09/13 10:32:30
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    Stillhead
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 10:32:59 (permalink)
    Those lakes certainly sound like they compare, but are they better?   Sounds like they are in the same class to me "world class".
    #15
    18andlife
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 10:33:41 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Noplacelikehome

    Tell me where in the world you could top this. 2 years ago I fished TWO days up in Erie. I caught a 40 inch 24lb 8 oz Lake Trout(in the Lake), a 10 lb Steelhead, and 6 lb Smallmouth(both in a stream by the way. My brother caught a 9 lb walleye. These were ONLY the big ones! We were fishing in early May. KJH you are obviously ONLY a carp fisherman. I hear its good carp fishing in the mighty Susquehanna River! Don't forget to pack some corn.


    Easy, Lower Niagara River.
    #16
    Noplacelikehome
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 10:36:40 (permalink)
    Griff, I am trying to give you real examples of why Erie IS the most prolific fishery in the world. Keep in mind I am only an above average fisherman. There are guys(in Erie) that literally catch fish all day long(I have seen it several times!!) I cant imagine what a (good) day fishing is for them.( 50 walleye, or 100 Steelys)
    #17
    KJH807
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 10:36:46 (permalink)
    I'm not saying Erie isn't GREAT... but i think a classifications like "word class" is a bit much
    post edited by KJH807 - 2008/09/13 10:37:59
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    KJH807
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 10:37:06 (permalink)
    ,
    #19
    griffon
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 10:38:12 (permalink)
    Still,  You really owe it to yourself to pay them a visit.  You will understand.  Yeah, they really are better and not by a little bit, but a lot better.  Just the setting alone ranks as one of the coolest places you can visit in North America.  These aren't little bodies of water either, they are massive.  The difference is that for much of the year, the majority of the fish species in Erie are isolated to certain areas.  In Lake of the Woods or Rainy, you can walk out of the back porch and catch dinner of any number of species (excluding Lakers) on any day of the year. 
    #20
    KJH807
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 10:38:54 (permalink)
    West Virginia sections..

    ORIGINAL: anadromous

    What part of the Potomac system? The health of the smallmouth in the Potomac system is questionable. These fish have not been healthy since the early 90's and even then had some nasty sores. The smallmouth in Erie are vibrant, healthy and strong. The Potomac, although a wonderful place to river fish (in some places it is looks prehistoric) the aethetics of the river valley make it worth the effort but I would never say that it is a better fishery than lake erie.
    ORIGINAL: KJH807

    walleye
    Rainy Lake MN
    Lake of the Woods MN
    Standford Lake ONT
    White Otter Lake ONT

    bronzebacks
    The potomac system
    the new
    james
    BSF

    #21
    griffon
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 10:39:50 (permalink)
    I would also throw Alexandria Bay into the mix and say that it is as good as Erie.
    #22
    Noplacelikehome
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 10:42:09 (permalink)
    18and life you might be correct, but did you ever catch that many big and different fish all in 2 days in one body of water? I doubt it.
    #23
    griffon
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 10:42:32 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: anadromous

    What part of the Potomac system? The health of the smallmouth in the Potomac system is questionable. These fish have not been healthy since the early 90's and even then had some nasty sores. The smallmouth in Erie are vibrant, healthy and strong. The Potomac, although a wonderful place to river fish (in some places it is looks prehistoric) the aethetics of the river valley make it worth the effort but I would never say that it is a better fishery than lake erie.
    ORIGINAL: KJH807

    walleye
    Rainy Lake MN
    Lake of the Woods MN
    Standford Lake ONT
    White Otter Lake ONT

    bronzebacks
    The potomac system
    the new
    james
    BSF


     
    That is a valid point, many water systems in WVA and VA (central) have undergone some major fishkills in the last several years.  That was why I did not qualify the James, Potomac or some others as their futures are questionable along with their present.  The New however down around Va and NC, that is another story all together.
    #24
    Stillhead
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 10:43:53 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: griffon

    Still,  You really owe it to yourself to pay them a visit.  You will understand.  Yeah, they really are better and not by a little bit, but a lot better.  Just the setting alone ranks as one of the coolest places you can visit in North America.  These aren't little bodies of water either, they are massive.  The difference is that for much of the year, the majority of the fish species in Erie are isolated to certain areas.  In Lake of the Woods or Rainy, you can walk out of the back porch and catch dinner of any number of species (excluding Lakers) on any day of the year. 

     
     
    I understand, sounds great.  It definitely sounds easier to fish. On any given day though, you can catch just as impressive fish in Erie. 
    #25
    KJH807
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 10:45:17 (permalink)
    lake of the woods in on FSN right now...
    #26
    griffon
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 10:50:58 (permalink)
    No doubt, but different style of fishing.  Trolling all day out in the big water is not my cup of tea although I do it occasionally.  I would rather set up on a hump and actually cast to fish, keep a few, pull up to an island, cook shore lunch, go fishing some more, find another island cook dinner, find another island where the smell of dinner is too alluring and make camp for the night.  The whole time, I might see a dozen other boats. 
    #27
    KJH807
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 10:55:57 (permalink)
    what is your classification for world class???

    numbers?
    size?
    experience?
    location?
    eagerness of fish?
    selectivifty of fish?
    remoteness?
    lack of people?
    quaility of water (can you eat the fish)?
    natural repro?
    do you have to stalk and stay stealthy?
    technical fishing?
    or is it the best fishing in YOUR world (2hr drive)?

    erie both lake and tribs can fill some of these... but definitely not all



    post edited by KJH807 - 2008/09/13 10:57:07
    #28
    Stillhead
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 10:55:59 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: griffon

    No doubt, but different style of fishing.  Trolling all day out in the big water is not my cup of tea although I do it occasionally.  I would rather set up on a hump and actually cast to fish, keep a few, pull up to an island, cook shore lunch, go fishing some more, find another island cook dinner, find another island where the smell of dinner is too alluring and make camp for the night.  The whole time, I might see a dozen other boats. 

     
     
    Now that gets into preference of fishing style and what you look for in a quality fishing experience.  I don't know if you can factor that into the "prolific" fishery argument, lol. 
     
    If I lived the same distance from the two, It sounds like I'd be headed for the lake of the woods more often. Although, I've been a trout bum my entire life, so I always be headed to erie for steel. Guys can knock it for whatever reason they choose, that's fine by me. Let them go elsewhere, I like it right here.
    #29
    Storm Warning 2
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    RE: "the most prolific fishery in the world in our back yard"??? 2008/09/13 11:00:53 (permalink)
    Not taking anything personally guys.
     
    Lake of the Woods?  Rainy?  Go fish them.  Rainy is full of 'eyes, no doubt, but I know you won't find the quality in those numbers that you will on Erie.  Ask the FLW Walleye Pros that do both virtually every year and they will  tell you the same.  Lake of the Woods is nice too, but once again, numbers are good, but quality no real comparison.  I don't think you can really even say that Rainy or Lake of the Woods holds a candle to Erie on the perch either.  They have great populations, but the average size is a little smaller.  The only fishery that I think can even make an arguement agains Erie when it comes to 'eyes MIGHT be Saginaw Bay in recent years.  The crash of its Alewife population has created an amazing walleye fishery and there have always been some big ones in that watershed, just ask Mark Martin.  If you want waters for pure size, then I think you are hard pressed to find a water more prolific for numbers of AMAZING quality for its size than the Bay of Quinte off Lake Ontario.  I have ice fished it many times and between me and a buddy caught 14 'eyes in a day that EASILY averaged 8#+ with the largest going high 12#s and there are 15 to 18# specimens caught there every year.   
     
    Rainy has an arguement for muskies as does Lake of the Woods, both are excellent musky fisheries.  That being said, there are truly some GIANT muskies in Erie, predominantly in the extreme western and eastern ends and not in big numbers, but they are there.  Lake of the Woods has a better smallie fishery than Rainy, but again, where on earth can you go smallie fishing and literally on a good day catch 20+ smallies over 4# every year?  Don't take my word for it, ask the FLW and B.A.S.S. guys about it.  I think it is universally accepted that Erie is as good as it gets for the smallies in terms of NUMBERS of QUALITY.  Where else does a bass tournament require you to hold a mid to high 4, if not 5# average to get in the money on STRICTLY smallies? 
     
    While on the Bass; I used to live in Virginia.  I have fished the Shenandoah, the Maury, and the New for smallies.  I don't know that I could say that the New would compare to Erie.  There are great fish there and good to great numbers, but if there is a world record to come out of a fishery, my $$ is still on Erie.  Very few records come out of river systems like the New.  A lot of current costs fish energy that could be going to becoming a big, fat, slobs which is what records are.  While still on Virginia, I have fished the James, but never for smallies, only for cats, and it has some IMPRESSIVE specimens, especially Blues.  The truth is, there are some very impressive Channel Cats in Erie too.  I would venture to say that if Blues were introduced into Erie, like they were in the James, there might be a pretty good competition.
     
    Rainy vs. Lake of the Woods vs. Erie Smallies:
     
    Rainy
     
    "Based on the fisheries assessment work done at the Canadian Bass Championship here the past three years, MNR area biologist Darryl McLeod said data indicates Rainy Lake is producing bigger and older fish every year since the tournament’s inception in 1995.
    “All indicators show that the quality of fish on the lake is improving,” said McLeod, noting the average weight of fish caught during last year’s tournament was 2.5 pounds.




    Last year’s “big fish” was a record 5.44-pounder. And more fish were caught that measured in the memorable range of 43-51 cm in length.
    “It all points to a good, quality bass fishery,”
     
    Lake of the Woods:
     
    http://www.ccconet.com/cgi-bin/start.cgi/bassinfo/results/2007-database.htm
     
    Erie:
     
    http://proxy.espn.go.com/outdoors/bassmaster/media/tournament?tournamentId=1224
     
    I don't have to say anything, just read 'em and you'll figure it out.
     
    The Columbia River system is a fantastic fishery.  It produces hordes of 10#+ 'eyes each year, but the numbers of 'eyes day in, day out are not like Erie.  Please keep in mind that its King Salmon fishery has been basically shut down due to lack of returns now too.  I would consider that a sign of an ailing fishery or a least a challenged one.  As for Lake O, well, I'm a big fan!  Honestly though, you could add up all the stocked Browns, Kings, Cohos, and add Lakers (little natural repro for any of these species with the possible exception of the Greasers and a few Kings in the Salmon River and a few Canadian systems) to that as well and you aren't going to add up to Erie's population of walleyes alone. 
     
    Erie is prolific, because as I have stated before it is FACT it has the largest biomass of ALL the Great Lakes.  The Great Lakes alone are home to some of the biggest numbers and moreover, the biggest numbers of quality fish found virtually anywhere in the world.  Look at Ontario, the week of Labor Day they thought they broke the Coho world record twice in 3 days!  They already held that record and broke it again.  They would have broken it twice in that week, however, the 1st specimen's DNA tests revealed it was a King/Coho hybrid.  The 2nd specimen, larger than the first by 2 ounces, was deemed a true Coho and is expected to replace the old record soon.  Lake Michigan produced several Brown Trout last year over 30#!  The only other fishery I can think of that can hold a candle to that MIGHT be the White River in Arkansas.
     
    As for steelies, there is a reason that they call from central Ohio to the shores of NY on Ontario "Steelhead Alley".  The numbers of steelies in Erie is absurd.  I think the lack of numbers of high quality steelhead is low because TOO many inhabit the lake.  Numbers alone DO NOT establish a fishery as world class, but where else are you going to go and stare at literally hundreds of rainbows over 6#?  There are very few places, if any in the world that you can go and hook up 20 to 50 or more steelies or just plain rainbows a day whether it be in the tribs, trolling the mouths, or trolling open waters.  Yes, I know several guys that have hooked up more than 50 times trolling trib mouths.  Our best is 40+ trolling, and I am certain that there are guys that have done that if not more in the tribs.  Take a walk in the 'Nut parking lot in late fall/early winter; I don't think guys would be driving from the places that they are if it wasn't a world class fishery.     
     
    I'm sorry you don't find fishing the Erie tribs fun KJH, but why is that?  I would assume you don't like the crowded conditions.  That being said, its crowded because it is SO good.  I don't fish the tribs, because I don't like the crowds, but many times I have dropped the boat in even after the docks are pulled and enjoyed some FANTASTIC fishing at the mouths with very little, if any competition.
     
    You just can't argue with the facts folks.
     
     
    #30
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